Are my turbo seals blown?

[EdgeAutosport.com]

So we have been getting this question a lot from guys with both stock turbo and upgraded turbo.

There is oil in my intercooler pipe. Are my turbo seals blown?

So for you guys that are unfamiliar with turbo seals and how they work, here is a little info.

First of all, turbo seals may let some oil out, but that doesn't mean they are blown. There are a lot of different pressures that are involved as well as other places for oil to come from. Turbo seals are usually a piston ring style seal and they are designed to keep pressure out of the oil passages and therefore the crank case but they are not exactly designed to keep oil from getting out of the the oil passages when there is no pressure on the compressor or turbine side of the seal.

When oil goes into the bearing housing, it is under pressure and mixes with air due to turbulence as it passes between the bearing and journal surfaces. Oil is brought in under pressure but it leaves via gravity. That is why the oil drain is so much bigger than the oil feed. As it drains out, it is frothy and light and anything that impedes this gravity flow will cause the frothy oil/air mixture to stay in the bearing housing. Once it rises above the level of the turbo seals it has the ability to leak into the compressor and turbine housings.

However, there are other issues that can cause this besides a malfunctioning drain.

Most people, when upgrading turbos, will already have a catch can but some people keep the valve cover vented into the intake. In a lot of cases that we have seen, the oil in the hot charge pipe and in the compressor come from this. As blow by gas and vapor escape the valve cover, they have no where to go but back through the turbo. A good idea if you do not already have a vented catch can is to grab one of these from the local hardware store.



This breather filter will save you from venting gross blow by gasses back into your intake and turbo system. Don't forget to block off the port on the intake where the tube connects from the valve cover though because then you end up with a massive influx of un-metered air which could cause you to run lean.

Walking back from there, another cause for oil to be present in your compressor housing can also be as simple as a dirty air filter. As the intake filter becomes increasingly restricted, it will cause a pressure drop. This will cause a partial vacuum at the compressor inlet during idle or low load situations. This can cause oil to be sucked from the bearing housing through the seal an into the compressor outlet. The same problem exist when your intake or filter are too small. This doesn't occur at WOT when there is ample pressure in the compressor, but only when a vacuum can be created by lack of flow to the turbo. Also, you will only see oil in the compressor outlet area if this is the root of your issue. The solution to this is simple. Just clean your air filter regularly. Also, it is a good idea to have a properly sized intake, though this is not a common problem as most people pick up a 3" or 3.5" intake before upgrading the turbo.

If you are seeing oil on your turbine outlet, the cause for this is most likely an inability for the oil to drain properly from your turbo. You will need to make sure that the drain port on your turbo is pointed straight down. Also, make sure that there is no "grease trap" sag in your oil drain line and that it is as straight a shot as possible from the turbo to the port on the block. Another issue is that sometimes on steel braided lines, the line can become pinched on the the inside while the outside cover remains normal. Check and make sure there are no internal blockages.

I hope this helps clear some of the blown turbo seal questions up for you guys experiencing the problem! Let me know if you have any questions or if you have anything to add, please post it up!

[ShadowHunter117]

Thanks for this post. I have been having these exact issues with my GTX2867r turbo kit I bought from you guys about 9 months ago. I have checked to see if oil could be coming through from my valve cover, but there is no oil in the valve cover breather hose, or the intake where the hose goes into it. One issue I read about and you also mention is the oil drain line being too long. It does seem like the drain line you supplied is a tad too long and does have a slight sag or uphill part before connecting to the drain fitting on the engine. Have you guys since offered, or is it possible for me to get a drain line that is just an inch shorter to see if this helps resolve the issue?

[09TrueRedGTX]

Great post Edge!

Originally Posted by ShadowHunter117 Thanks for this post. I have been having these exact issues with my GTX2867r turbo kit I bought from you guys about 9 months ago. I have checked to see if oil could be coming through from my valve cover, but there is no oil in the valve cover breather hose, or the intake where the hose goes into it. One issue I read about and you also mention is the oil drain line being too long. It does seem like the drain line you supplied is a tad too long and does have a slight sag or uphill part before connecting to the drain fitting on the engine. Have you guys since offered, or is it possible for me to get a drain line that is just an inch shorter to see if this helps resolve the issue?

You can simply remove your end fittings and cut the hose to your desired length. Then re-install the fittings back on the hose.

When doing my gtx3071 install, I did not even use the hose supplied and made my own from jegs parts. I was surprised at how little braided line I actually needed.

[ShadowHunter117]

Originally Posted by 09TrueRedGTX Great post Edge! You can simply remove your end fittings and cut the hose to your desired length. Then re-install the fittings back on the hose. When doing my gtx3071 install, I did not even use the hose supplied and made my own from jegs parts. I was surprised at how little braided line I actually needed.

It has been a while, but I don't think the supplied hose uses AN fittings, but some kind of crimped fitting. I will look into getting some AN fittings to do it myself though since it didn't look very hard when I looked it up.

[stockms3]

I have a question, kind of I guess. I smell oil inside the cabin at idle. No oil in boost tubes. No blue smoke and I'm catless. I recently put this motor in and then added a k04 with a new CHRA. I would appreciate suggestions where this smell might be coming from. No oil leaks at the valve cover. I'm suspecting it might be the copper washer on the oil feed line. Does that sound reasonable?

If you carry those copper washers I will probably order some, I bought a big set online and quality is terrible, a lot of burr.

[Jtaylor]

Originally Posted by stockms3 I have a question, kind of I guess. I smell oil inside the cabin at idle. No oil in boost tubes. No blue smoke and I'm catless. I recently put this motor in and then added a k04 with a new CHRA. I would appreciate suggestions where this smell might be coming from. No oil leaks at the valve cover. I'm suspecting it might be the copper washer on the oil feed line. Does that sound reasonable? If you carry those copper washers I will probably order some, I bought a big set online and quality is terrible, a lot of burr.

Check your shaft pivot seal where the shifter linkage meets the transmission. I had this same issue.

If you have already been warned of this then my apologies

[stockms3]

Originally Posted by Jtaylor Check your shaft pivot seal where the shifter linkage meets the transmission. I had this same issue. If you have already been warned of this then my apologies

Was a fresh engine oil smell?

[Jtaylor]

Originally Posted by stockms3 Was a fresh engine oil smell?

Yeah, although it is tranny fluid it was still very strong. Burned my nostrils

[EdgeAutosport.com]

Originally Posted by ShadowHunter117 Thanks for this post. I have been having these exact issues with my GTX2867r turbo kit I bought from you guys about 9 months ago. I have checked to see if oil could be coming through from my valve cover, but there is no oil in the valve cover breather hose, or the intake where the hose goes into it. One issue I read about and you also mention is the oil drain line being too long. It does seem like the drain line you supplied is a tad too long and does have a slight sag or uphill part before connecting to the drain fitting on the engine. Have you guys since offered, or is it possible for me to get a drain line that is just an inch shorter to see if this helps resolve the issue?

The Kozmic Motorsports Oil Drain would be a good option to try as it is a bit shorter than the ATP line and more easily modified for length.

Originally Posted by stockms3 I have a question, kind of I guess. I smell oil inside the cabin at idle. No oil in boost tubes. No blue smoke and I'm catless. I recently put this motor in and then added a k04 with a new CHRA. I would appreciate suggestions where this smell might be coming from. No oil leaks at the valve cover. I'm suspecting it might be the copper washer on the oil feed line. Does that sound reasonable? If you carry those copper washers I will probably order some, I bought a big set online and quality is terrible, a lot of burr.

If the copper washers were not sealing, you would have a mess on your hands. I would imagine you have a small leak somewhere that is burning off on the downpipe. Could be the oil drain. Could also be the front or rear main seal. Have you checked under the car to see if there is any oil anywhere?

[stockms3]

I had a leak on the oil pan. I pulled it and resealed it. It appears to be good so far. I didn't see or feel any oil by the flywheel. Looked at the bottom of turbo and oil drain looked dry. I will need to investigate further once the finals are over.

[Mazdazilla6]

I would like to add that by putting a filter on the valvecover does decrease the ability of the engine to evacuate the PCV gases from the crankcase. The reason it is plumbed to the intake is so there is a vacuum pulling out these oil vapors all the time.

This is how I view PCV gas evacuation in order from most preferred to least preferred:
- Route valve cover line to slashcut in downpipe w/CC inline
- Route valve cover line to intake w/CC inline
- Put filter on valve cover

The slashcut is the most effective IMO because it always pulls a vacuum on the crankcase like the intake would, but no oil gets into the intake tract.

I'm not saying that a filter is harmful but if you're going to step up to a bigger turbo and run lots of boost (30+ psi) then the amount of PCV gases will increase and the need to effectively vent these gases becomes greater.

There are other options too, such as running a second port off of the PCV plate like the Perm one, or using a vented oil fill cap like the SP63 one. Both allow more PCV gases to escape.

[EdgeAutosport.com]

Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 I would like to add that by putting a filter on the valvecover does decrease the ability of the engine to evacuate the PCV gases from the crankcase. The reason it is plumbed to the intake is so there is a vacuum pulling out these oil vapors all the time. This is how I view PCV gas evacuation in order from most preferred to least preferred: - Route valve cover line to slashcut in downpipe w/CC inline - Route valve cover line to intake w/CC inline - Put filter on valve cover The slashcut is the most effective IMO because it always pulls a vacuum on the crankcase like the intake would, but no oil gets into the intake tract. I'm not saying that a filter is harmful but if you're going to step up to a bigger turbo and run lots of boost (30+ psi) then the amount of PCV gases will increase and the need to effectively vent these gases becomes greater. There are other options too, such as running a second port off of the PCV plate like the Perm one, or using a vented oil fill cap like the SP63 one. Both allow more PCV gases to escape.

Definitely agree with this! This was actually how the first PCV systems were originally designed.

[Tyhackman15]

Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 I would like to add that by putting a filter on the valvecover does decrease the ability of the engine to evacuate the PCV gases from the crankcase. The reason it is plumbed to the intake is so there is a vacuum pulling out these oil vapors all the time. This is how I view PCV gas evacuation in order from most preferred to least preferred: - Route valve cover line to slashcut in downpipe w/CC inline - Route valve cover line to intake w/CC inline - Put filter on valve cover The slashcut is the most effective IMO because it always pulls a vacuum on the crankcase like the intake would, but no oil gets into the intake tract. I'm not saying that a filter is harmful but if you're going to step up to a bigger turbo and run lots of boost (30+ psi) then the amount of PCV gases will increase and the need to effectively vent these gases becomes greater. There are other options too, such as running a second port off of the PCV plate like the Perm one, or using a vented oil fill cap like the SP63 one. Both allow more PCV gases to escape.

I'm glad you mentioned this. You always want vacuum in the crankcase, hell I've seen some high HP cars where they've picked up measurable HP by increasing vacuum in the CC

[EdgeAutosport.com]

Originally Posted by Tyhackman15 I'm glad you mentioned this. You always want vacuum in the crankcase, hell I've seen some high HP cars where they've picked up measurable HP by increasing vacuum in the CC

This is where running a perm plate in conjunction with a vented can and a non vented can comes in.