Jonesy's first motor build. GT3076r

[djones128]

Hi everyone! I'm Dan. I've got a silver ms3 2007. Only mods are RMM and AP. Got 135,XXX miles. Been on this site for a little bit. And I've been stopped by two other ms3's who ask about my car and if I'm on the forums or facebook. I don't do facebook anymore, but I check out this forum quite regularly.

So my story for this is:

-Cylinder 4 started missing consistently. Was only running on 3 cylinders
-Compression test showed 185-185-185-0
-Tried to clean intake valves for first time at 135,XXX miles
-They were fuggin gawd awful. Got most of it out.
-Did another compression test, still 0.
-Said fuck, decided to pull motor
-That's where I'm at. Almost got the motor out.

Now, This is where I'm hoping to get a little bit of hand holding throughout this because I'm new to this. Although I've been trying to do a ton of research on my own, I still have questions. So I'll start to explain where my head is with this whole thing and what I want to do.

I want to:

-Tear the motor down
-K1 Rods
-Wiseco pistons
-PnP the head and IM
-Bore .20 over
-machine services on motor
-TIP
-DP
-Intake
-CPe SafeSeals
-EGR delete
-HPFP internals
-BSD and baffle
-3.5 BAR MAP
-TB Coolant bypass
-denso ITV 22
-JBR IM gasket
-JBR TB gasket
-Cometic HG
-K04 rebuild kit?

That's all I can think of right now.

My goals are a 500hp DD. Not looking to break records, just want to be in the 500's.

So, my question is, does anybody see anything I've left out for starting this build?

Is there anything you'd change?

Are there other things I should get done while I'm at this to prepare for a 500hp motor? I'm not sure of all the things they do at a machine shop, but I've heard of micro polishing, and special heat reducing coatings and such. But I don't know what would be beneficial for my motor.

And the last things I need help with are finding a good machine shop and finding a good tuner, as well as hopefully leading me into the direction of some good deals on all this stuff. I've been checking out edgeautosport, but isn't there some kind of discount if I'm buying a bunch of stuff?

Thanks a lot guys for any help you can give me!! I know theres many knowledgeable people around here!

[Lex]

For those power goals you definitely don't want to build your K04.

You will want to run at least a GTX3076, EWG, with additional fueling.

A few more ideas here:

http://stratifiedauto.com/blog/the-m...speed-vehicle/

[Johnasaurus]

If your willing to do all of that don't rebuild the stock turbo...get a bigger turbo something that will actually make 500hp

[djones128]

Oh, absolutly not. But my K04 has shaft play and burns oil, so I figured I could get a rebuild kit (like 40 bucks) and refresh it a bit before I go BT, which I plan to do. I'm planning on either a GTX3076 or just get the GT35.

And thanks for the info!

[smoogs12]

Op I went ahead and moved your thread to a new section. You should get more traffic now.

Welcome.

Oh yeah and while I'm in here I guess its worth noting that you'll also need aux injection to reach 500.

[Turbo_Steve]

500whp and being a DD is a bad idea. To build a reliable 500whp car that you can drive daily without worry is pretty tough. Spend top dollar on everything if you can. You will need extra fueling (not just fuel pump internals) and a clutch / flywheel setup as well. I would also suggest getting your shift forks upgraded too. If you have a second car to drive daily I say go for it. But yes I would say make sure you find a good machine shop. Tell them what you need done, ask lots of questions and make sure you check over their work when it is done.

Big things to look out for with these motors are resurfacing the cylinder head and the deck of the block. Tell your machine shop you need the head & block surfaced smoother than 30ra for a mls head gasket. This will save you lots of headache down the road. Also making sure ring gaps are good etc will be a huge thing. Try find a shop that works with performance engines.

Aiming for 400-425whp will save you a bit of expense but if you build the motor correctly you can upgrade other parts down the road and later get to your goal.

[chaser27]

The only car I would consider capable of a DD at that power level is @SilverDemon; and I believe he has it for sale. You would be better off, selling your car and buying his. He did it right, and would probably cost you a lot less.

[mxlplx71]

Use the stock head gasket.

[SilverDemon]

I am running the stock hg...

[Turbo_Steve]

Stock head gasket with a properly machined surface I bet.

[djones128]

Great info! Thanks

I plan on doing the kozmik 5th port deal for fuel.

Yeah, I'll do stock HG. I have heard it's good. I'm going to use new stock head bolts too. I hear that they do fine.

So, things to note:

-head and block smoother than 30ra for mls gasket
-proper ring gap

and now a question, should I stay stock compression? I hear pros and cons but not sure what would be best.

[smoogs12]

Iirc correctly I think some of the high comp guys regret their decision. This could be completely false so I'd wait for them to chime in.
@silvapain; you're the only one that comes to mind off the top of my head that has higher comp.

[djones128]

The higher compression increases knock correct? but it makes the combustion more efficient as well? What would that translate to for day to day driving?

[Johnasaurus]

Read the build diaries threads. You'll find a lot of info that you're looking for as well as problems and solutions in there. I read them quite a bit before I started making decisions on things.

[mr.speedy3]

I'm right at 500hp and it is my daily. You should interest yourself in a beater becuase you're more than likely going to have issues. As of right now, my 500hp daily is dead due to an unknown wiring issue, or a dead ecu. But 500hp is soooooo much fun. Killing 500hp mustangs is probably the best feeling I've had in the car.

I am using a GTX3076r IWG with a D10 meth setup for aux fueling. Thats all it took for me.

You can view my build thread here:
Mr.Speedy3's Up and Coming Build

Also highly suggest getting VIP, you can download the Factory service manual in the VIP section which will help you tons. Along with all the extra information you'll get on threads you had no idea about.

[ArmanRus]

@phate; runs a 12:1 comp ratio.

[djones128]

Got that VIP. Well worth it. Thanks guys.

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by smoogs12 Iirc correctly I think some of the high comp guys regret their decision. This could be completely false so I'd wait for them to chime in. @silvapain; you're the only one that comes to mind off the top of my head that has higher comp.

Speaking of, my head just lifted last week, so I'm going to be rebuilding the engine. Im going to be taking the higher compression pistons out and will be going with flat-top standard compression pistons.

I'm changing my setup because my life situation has changed, and I'm putting a lot more miles on my car. Because of the mileage, I'm not using E85 because of the fuel economy hit. I wouldn't recommend higher compression unless you plan on meth or E85. I got way too much knock on straight pump gas.

[djones128]

Alright so I have a couple things on order and a bunch of stuff in my cart, but I'd like to run it by you guys first.

-FMIC kit on its way.
-ebay DP on its way

As for shit in my cart:

-Manley H beams - $360.45
-Wiseco forged pistons 22.5 wristpin .20 over - $494.29
-Mazda OEM complete gasket set - $314.98
-x3 crankshaft washer - $45.48
-crank pulley bolt - $12.30
-HTP 3" intake kit - $272.65
-JBR BSD with oil pan baffle - $100
-Autotech internals - $349.96
-Kozmic secondary egr delete - $31.99
-Kozmic primary egr delete - $38.99

Total is $1818.95 after 10% off coupon.

You guys see anything lacking or where I could save some money?

Thanks guys.

Dan

I know I still need rod and main bearings, but I was gonna wait till I get the block to a machine shop to see if I need a particular size.

Oh, and I still need CPe Safeseals but I don't know where I'm gonna get those though yet.

[smoogs12]

You could talk to @Tokay444; about getting some of his injector seals.

[dp3]

Originally Posted by djones128 Alright so I have a couple things on order and a bunch of stuff in my cart, but I'd like to run it by you guys first. -FMIC kit on its way. -ebay DP on its way As for shit in my cart: -Manley H beams - $360.45 -Wiseco forged pistons 22.5 wristpin .20 over - $494.29 -Mazda OEM complete gasket set - $314.98 -x3 crankshaft washer - $45.48 -crank pulley bolt - $12.30 -HTP 3" intake kit - $272.65 -JBR BSD with oil pan baffle - $100 -Autotech internals - $349.96 -Kozmic secondary egr delete - $31.99 -Kozmic primary egr delete - $38.99 Total is $1818.95 after 10% off coupon. You guys see anything lacking or where I could save some money? Thanks guys. Dan I know I still need rod and main bearings, but I was gonna wait till I get the block to a machine shop to see if I need a particular size. Oh, and I still need CPe Safeseals but I don't know where I'm gonna get those though yet.

You probably ought to replace the water pump and get a good look at the radiator as well. Now might be a good time to increase cooling capacity-efficiency.

What piston to cylinder wall tolerances are you planning on running? I know that different composition alloys specific to manufacturers can entail substantially different clearances from brand to brand.

Building engines can be a heck of a rewarding experience when it goes well, and a depressing amount of redoing stuff when it does not.

Ever figure out why compression was zero in that dead hole?

[mr.speedy3]

Originally Posted by dp3 You probably ought to replace the water pump and get a good look at the radiator as well. Now might be a good time to increase cooling capacity-efficiency. What piston to cylinder wall tolerances are you planning on running? I know that different composition alloys specific to manufacturers can entail substantially different clearances from brand to brand. Building engines can be a heck of a rewarding experience when it goes well, and a depressing amount of redoing stuff when it does not. Ever figure out why compression was zero in that dead hole?

My buddy had 0 compression due to bad valve seals. Wonder if its the same thing. Doing a compression check and getting a 0 reading makes you laugh and cry all at once lol.

Speaking of cooling, invest in the sp63 kit for radiator fan control, or do it yourself like some of us az fellas have done. There are a few threads about the aux fan mod that you can do for about $50 or so. My fan kicks on at 205 and kicks off at 185. Works like a charm.

tapatalkin

Originally Posted by smoogs12 You could talk to @Tokay444; about getting some of his injector seals.

False, he hasn't made seals for about a year. One of the venders acquired his design and are supposed to release them 'in two weeks' lol.

I got lucky and found a set of unused Tokay seals for my build. You can always make a wtb thread.

tapatalkin

[Turbo_Steve]

Cp-e did a 20% black Friday sale last year fyi. Might be worth waiting for those seals if you can. I'm guessing they will repeat this sale.

[stockms3]

Have you done any other tests than just a compression? Wet compression test? Leakdown?

I have been through the process of building my motor over the last two months. It's back in the car but I fucked up by not rebuilding the shitty k04 when I've had it out. So, right now I'm waiting for a rotomaster CHRA and CNT catback. Then back to tunning.

If you have any questions during the process pm me.

[smoogs12]

Originally Posted by mr.speedy3 My buddy had 0 compression due to bad valve seals. Wonder if its the same thing. Doing a compression check and getting a 0 reading makes you laugh and cry all at once lol. Speaking of cooling, invest in the sp63 kit for radiator fan control, or do it yourself like some of us az fellas have done. There are a few threads about the aux fan mod that you can do for about $50 or so. My fan kicks on at 205 and kicks off at 185. Works like a charm. tapatalkin False, he hasn't made seals for about a year. One of the venders acquired his design and are supposed to release them 'in two weeks' lol. I got lucky and found a set of unused Tokay seals for my build. You can always make a wtb thread. tapatalkin

Had no idea. That sucks.

[dp3]

To the OP.

It occurred to me that this might help as a sort of rough breakdown on rebuilding an engine. I know that a lot of us on here have done builds so many times that we take some of the process for granted.

Engine Blueprinting Basics - Engine Builder Magazine

So after a basic assessment on the condition of the engine, you maybe ought to consider how thoroughly you want to delve into "blueprinting" your new build.

Even the act of hot tanking, scrubbing down, de flashing galleries and doing head work adds up to a pretty big laundry list of to-dos.

But it actually can be a lot of fun, as some things really matter a lot. Simple things like replacing all the soft plugs, doing the turbo service or R&R ing it, to satisfy your new specs, flywheel and clutch assy, chain and tensioner, will mean the difference between a quick recondition and a new motor, which really, if you do it right, should serve you well in terms of reliability and power output.

Mazda does a pretty darned good job with the factory builds from what I have seen.

So the thought did occur to me that maybe instead of a complete rebuild, you might be able to get away with a hone job, valve grind and seals and call it good. Do the cooling system, turbo and clutch of course.

It really is up to you.

BTW, find a good machine shop with an A list machinist. After figuring out what went wrong, those guys can make your life much easier. They are not all the same. If you are not sure who to use, ask around in your community with guys familiar with wheels up restorations. They will know who to use for your machine work.

I know it may sound daunting, but really, there is nothing quite so satisfying as systematically re assembling your motor, checking each tolerance in re assembly, doing all the external detail work, then later, firing up your own build, knowing you managed all the details properly.

It just takes a bit of study, organizing, time, and money. This is a remarkably informed community on here, so your thread asking about parts etc was really a good idea.

[djones128]

Thanks @dp3 for the info and all you other guys who chimed in!

So, I just got off the phone with the machine shop. He quoted me roughly 2500 bucks and 8 week turnaround. This includes cleaning and all the work nessecary for pistons, rods, 12mm studs, 3 angle valve job, and port and polishing. Any input? Anything I don't need done? 2500 is a lot to swallow, but if its all worth it, I'll pay it. The place is Eastwood auto machine in Somers, connecticut.

Also, just saw I got two packages delivered. Woot woot! I'll post up pics when I get out of class tonight!!

[Turbo_Steve]

Originally Posted by djones128 Thanks @dp3 for the info and all you other guys who chimed in! So, I just got off the phone with the machine shop. He quoted me roughly 2500 bucks and 8 week turnaround. This includes cleaning and all the work nessecary for pistons, rods, 12mm studs, 3 angle valve job, and port and polishing. Any input? Anything I don't need done? 2500 is a lot to swallow, but if its all worth it, I'll pay it. The place is Eastwood auto machine in Somers, connecticut. Also, just saw I got two packages delivered. Woot woot! I'll post up pics when I get out of class tonight!!

I would pass on that. Go with a company that has worked on these motors & especially has worked on this cylinder head before. Porting and polishing isn't that hard with the right equipment, but the guys who have already taken the time and ruined a few cores trying to find out what works best are going to be your best bet.

[djones128]

Also, the only test I've done is a compression test. As soon as I saw zero compression on that forth cylinder, I finally had an excuse to rebuild.

[mr.speedy3]

Have a shop assemble the short block and build it yourself.. I paid 200 or so to assemble the short block. Built it to spec with Nator in my garage.

tapatalkin

[jdmage_mx5]

That sounds like a chunk of change not counting the cost of Pistons, rods, gaskets, other tid bits.

[djones128]

Brown Santa came!!!!!

[djones128]

For your records.

[dp3]

Christmas! Better even!

With regard to your machine shop estimate. Really hard to say w/o a detailed estimate. I have seen headwork (Oversize valves port and polish with flowbench and final intake and exhaust flow reports) cost 1500-2500 alone.

If they are handing you a built longblock with flowed head, magnafluxed parts and align bored with system balance, blueprinted and ready to drop in, that is a deal. Assuming they are experts in what they do.

This is a shop I have used for 30 years.

Tobys Engine Parts - About Us

I trust them and I still do my own final measurements and assy, top and bottom.

(Never seen them fok up even once as I re checked their work (probably 20 engines)

I actually LIKE doing my own headwork, but I was trained by an expert in it, who had multiple records set on his builds though I have no clue about forced induction flow dynamics. They would be quite different than all the naturally aspirated work I have done.

Keep this in mind. The high (and good) end. This seems to be the direction you are heading with your parts choices. http://www.cosworth.com/products/cra...ratec-engines/

If that shop hands you this type of build for 2500 plus the cost of your parts it is a smoking deal. But who is to say? That is why I like the concept of building the engine personally.

But that comes with a lot of personal build experience.

You have to determine what is right for you as the car owner and builder. What is your comfort level?

Happy that you are sharing this with us all. Brings back great memories!

[djones128]

Got a question. So I got the vvt replaced and the timing chain stuff by the dealer maybe 30k ago. I'm at like 138,000 miles now.

So, I'm curious, should I replace all that in this engine rebuild? Or because it was replaced 30k ago I can reuse it.

Oh, also, I believe it already broke again. I'm getting the same noise at start up again. Does It being broken cause concern? I've heard arguments from both camps about it, but never a solid answer. If it won't cause any damage to the engine being broken I'm just gonna throw it back from on. I can put up with the noise on startup.

[Turbo_Steve]

I would replace the chain 100%. If the guides look worn at all replace those too. The vvt itself should be fine if it is the latest greatest replacement, but you should replace it if you have your doubts.

[djones128]

Okay, timing chain, check.

Im pretty certain its broken. Just curious if I can leave it broke and still use it. Some people say it could mess up the timing and bend valves, and others have said it only make a slight noise until the oil pressure comes up, then the oil takes over instead of that little pin.

Any input?

[jdmage_mx5]

If you are spending the money to rebuild an engine just spend the extra couple $100 and replace it. For peace of mind if anything.

[speed3sailor]

I don't know if you have purchased an intake yet but I would go up to a 3.5 intake. You will max out a 3in way before 500hp

[mr.speedy3]

Originally Posted by speed3sailor I don't know if you have purchased an intake yet but I would go up to a 3.5 intake. You will max out a 3in way before 500hp

False, I have a 3" tip.. And made 491 on the dyno with a boost leak lol.

The trick is my 3.75" MAF housing lol

tapatalkin