MazdaSpeed 2.3L DISI Turbo Blown Engine Resource Thread

[AK-speeder]

well my motor isn;t blown yet...i got an 08 speed 3 w/ ms cai and i was sitting in an auto car wash and when it was finished i started the car up and it sucked up water...now you can hear the timing chain spinning like crazy but the dealership says its not loud enough to repair yet or to tare down for inspection....

[AK-speeder]

yea it is my first post because i didnt realize i hadn't fully registered my account so i couldn't post befor...but anyways...

this happened about a good 4 months ago and 5k miles...for like a very rough idea of how it sounds just picture a chainsaw...not the motor to it...but when you run the chainsaw think of the noise the chain makes at higher RPM...that is how it is and originates from the passenger side...

when i took it in they said they had no direction to go in but the tech said he could hear it from the instant you start up the car up until redline with it progressivly getting louder with the RPM's goin up of coarse...

but that is my story so far...

[AK-speeder]

and oil has been changed twice since then with them never saying anything about the timing cover being filled with water...

[booya620]

How many of these cars ended up getting covered under warranty? Most of these cases just have question marks. It'd be really cool to see how may have been covered, if any. Also, only 13 blown motors? out of 4000 speed 3's released for sale in US? It feels like there should be alot more cases does anyone have any clue what a conservative estimate to the true number is to date?
Also how can Mazda not justify validating warranties on cars with an intake and exhaust since mazdaspeed sells these upgrades in dealerships? I know they are not obviously the same brand, but if they are of similar design wouldn't they have trouble denying warrantied repair.
it'd be cool if we could get a tech from a mazda dealership to chime in on this entire subject, the dealership's perspective on what's going on and why and how they look at mods. It seems through looking at countless post that there is no rhyme or reason to any of the blown motors or even to warranty coverage. I've owned some pretty shitty ass cars in my days ( GM comes to mind as does a Mitsubishi) but never seen anything like whats going on with Mazda.

[chrakaknox]

I actually just put my car for sale on cars.com because of all of this bullshit. I can't have my '07 with 5,000 miles blow a motor and because of a few mods be spanked with a $7k bill for non warranty motor work - it's my DD. Mazda FTL

[JimmyMac]

Gotta be willing to pay if you want to play. My 07 that I got back in December of 06 has been modded since January of 07. And the first mod was the XEDE which gave it huge gains (in the seat of my pants). Now I'm running a GT2871R at 20psi and no problems (so far).

[Lex]

Originally Posted by JimmyMac Gotta be willing to pay if you want to play. My 07 that I got back in December of 06 has been modded since January of 07. And the first mod was the XEDE which gave it huge gains (in the seat of my pants). Now I'm running a GT2871R at 20psi and no problems (so far).

Did you keep the Xede or change? If so how come you changed? I like the unit and would like to know if there are any downsides.

[JimmyMac]

Actually, I wished I kept it. But I sold it. I'm running the Standback right now. The Standback does more in terms of tuning. And controlling boost is alot easier by setting each psi setting for given rpm vs (whatever setting) you want. But using the software is alittle more tricky than using the XEDE software. From the get go, the XEDE came with a powerful tune. But changing the boost setting was a little more intimidating because you didn't set the boost with boost targets, you set it by guessing on the wastegate duty cycles. So it was a hit or miss thing. That was my only real gripe tuning with the XEDE. I sold it to try something different. I wanted to get a feel for what other options other products provided. I may sell the SB if/when Cobb offers the tuner software for the AP (if they haven't already, I don't read their forums any.) I'll try that out and go from there. I'm not loyal to any one brand. I just want what's best for me and how I do things. So it'll cost me $$ till I find one that suits me. Even if it means going back and purchasing something I've had in the past.

But going back to the XEDE, you basically just tune 4 maps. 1.MAF. 2. MAP. 3.Timing. 4.Boost Solenoid. If you don't mind playing with duty cycles instead of boost pressures, then it should be no problem for you. Also, you have to hardwire the unit in. I would stay away from the connectors that come with the XEDE and direct solder everything. Unless of course if you bought the PG PnP wiring harness. Then you just solder into that. You would also need a cheap serial to usb adapter to tune it. But that's only like $7.

Hope that helps. You could try some of the Aussie forums that are out there. They love the thing and could answer your questions better.

[JimmyMac]

I added Oil to the list. So if you remember what oil you were running when it blew, please post up.

[phillyb]

when i first fucked my car up, i took it to a shop called turbo performance inc in van nuys, ca. they had another ms3 they were working on.
they made an fmic, 3" tbe, and a turbosmart mbc.

i went there to pick up something for my car and this is what i see...

[JimmyMac]

Good pics. Any info on how it happened?

[phillyb]

piston, rods, idk really what that is...but that's what they muttered. i don't know if there's a gauge in the car, and i don't know the boost, but i'm assuming it's a lot. i would hope it's not WAY TOO MUCH.
i would like to contact him, but don't necessarily want to take business away from the shop. hahah

[ki5fx]

Sure, Mazda and others sell CAI's for the Speed 3 but, they are to long extending down to where water can be sucked up into the intake.

Great if you don't drive in the rain or snow etc. For regular highway driving, get yourself a short CAI such as the one COBB sells. It keeps the filter up top high & dry.

Yes, I learned the hard way, MAZDA Dealer installed a FUJI CAI for me. I drove through about 1.5" of water in a parking lot and hydro-locked the engine. Push rods were bent etc.

12K to replace the engine. Not covered by Mazda. Insurance had to pay and I had to pay 1K deductible. Only 5,000 miles on original engine.

[phantom3]

I was under the impression that our bottom end was a forged cosworth unit. Am I mistaken on this? if not then wtf?

[numbnuts22715]

Originally Posted by phantom3 I was under the impression that our bottom end was a forged cosworth unit. Am I mistaken on this? if not then wtf?

Yes, you are mistaken.

[phantom3]

Originally Posted by numbnuts22715 Yes, you are mistaken.

Well...... Fuck.

[JimmyMac]

I added myself and IDRVSLO to the list.

[ONLYA6]

Originally Posted by ki5fx Sure, Mazda and others sell CAI's for the Speed 3 but, they are to long extending down to where water can be sucked up into the intake. Great if you don't drive in the rain or snow etc. For regular highway driving, get yourself a short CAI such as the one COBB sells. It keeps the filter up top high & dry. Yes, I learned the hard way, MAZDA Dealer installed a FUJI CAI for me. I drove through about 1.5" of water in a parking lot and hydro-locked the engine. Push rods were bent etc. 12K to replace the engine. Not covered by Mazda. Insurance had to pay and I had to pay 1K deductible. Only 5,000 miles on original engine.

12k? That can't be right.

[johnnyspeed6]

Does anyone have any direct connection to mazda techs for insight maybe??
I also have to say that I am not TO suprised on some of these engines blowing .. a few of you guys have 5k in mods, meth injection, 20 psi , and upgraded turbos ... you have 2.3 liter motors running into the 12's ... WHICH IS NOT AT ALL UNCOMMON ... BUT, to abuse a motor like that you ALWAYS have to build the bottom end ... factory specs are just not set up to take all of the abuse .. not to mention with the AP tuning and all that jazz ... your rpms are flying off the chart as well ... not hating .. just thinking it through

[pdqgp]

Originally Posted by ki5fx Yes, I learned the hard way, MAZDA Dealer installed a FUJI CAI for me. I drove through about 1.5" of water in a parking lot and hydro-locked the engine. Push rods were bent etc.

I don't buy it. How does 1.5" of water cause a filter mounted behind the foglight 6-7" above the ground and covered on the bottom to suck up enough water to blow a motor?

You submerged the filter to some extent to cause that to happen. Even in normal driving with water blowing into the front of the grills, it doesn't make its way over to the air filter behind the fog light. It would have to make a hard right turn and go about 12" or more to hit the filter in mass quantities to get sucked up and hydro-lock the car.

I've had two other CAI mounted in the same place on other cars with zero issues in normal driving where one avoids ponding water.

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by johnnyspeed6 Does anyone have any direct connection to mazda techs for insight maybe?? I also have to say that I am not TO suprised on some of these engines blowing .. a few of you guys have 5k in mods, meth injection, 20 psi , and upgraded turbos ... you have 2.3 liter motors running into the 12's ... WHICH IS NOT AT ALL UNCOMMON ... BUT, to abuse a motor like that you ALWAYS have to build the bottom end ... factory specs are just not set up to take all of the abuse .. not to mention with the AP tuning and all that jazz ... your rpms are flying off the chart as well ... not hating .. just thinking it through

nah your wrong. Stop talking like a scared person. Im 23+ psi and meth for the longest. I've been over 300whp for the last 7-8 months, I race my car more then 98 percent of the people on here and I'm still kicking. Are my days numbered, probably are mods the cause of these failure probably, but I don't think the the whole story. I think its more a design flaw that gets aggravated by something more then "OMGZ Too many mods blew mez up!"

As long as people like whoosh, Laloosh, Me, andre with the SST and some others don't blow or have problems rest alittle bit easier cause we'd all be candidates for the thrown rod category

[JimmyMac]

My problem might of occurred about a week or two ago. I had a spike of 30.8psi for some odd reason. Never done that before. So this might of been the catalyst of my ticking. I can only speculate. But anyways, I have my own thread for my troubles. I'll know more as I pull the engine apart.

[ASIC_BSEE]

So with woosh, darksun, laloosh all running fine with tons of power and lead feet, is the key to drive the car hard ? Just kidding, but think about it, those that have blown have been easing into the throttle, maybe hitting the throttle hard forces the ECU to ramp up the fpr faster, injector duty cycle faster, and get into richer territory faster. It seems a little strange that these cars aren't blowing at WOT, but are at minimal throttle. Also, I bet most cars that blew had a recently reset ECU or reflash.

It's got to be the closed loop to open loop transition and pre-ignition and/or detonation. On a newly reset ECU, the fuel trims aren't adjusted enough to keep the car rich under boost, even mild boost. As soon as you start pushing the gas pedal its still at stoic, especially if you haven't given the car enough ignition cycles and driving time to get the trims right. Look at the dyno graphs for a car that was just reset, AFR reacts so damn slow, that it doesn't even get to 12.5 til 3500-4500 rpms WAY after full boost has kicked in. Take this and a newly reset ECU and you get pre-ignition one time, you just broke a rod.

Lean AFR, hot engine, can ignite the gas at BDC. Maybe even throw in a burnt valve or improperly seated exhaust valve to supply the ignition source. Hell, maybe even all the carbon build-up on the intake valves is acting as a glow plug.

I really don't think it can be the balance shaft. If anything, the balance shaft connection is creating a hard point at cylinder #3. If it has to go somewhere it will go in the spot with the least give. The balance shaft is creating a torsional force against the crankshaft.

Reference:
Detonation vs. Pre-Ignition - 3000GT/Stealth International Message Center

[phantom3]

I`d like to see boost PSI at time of break down added to the list.... Just for arguments sake.

[Lex]

With these weird vibrations people had before blowing up, and then doing so at low load, could it be something in the rotating assembly falling out of place? Anyone considering the balance shaft assembly as a possible culprit ... something "stalling" the crank?

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by Lex With these weird vibrations people had before blowing up, and then doing so at low load, could it be something in the rotating assembly falling out of place? Anyone considering the balance shaft assembly as a possible culprit ... something "stalling" the crank?

all i know is that the balance shaft is on the 3rd cyl

[oskinosmee]

BSR might be a good prevention maybe? If so i needs it lol

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by oskinosmee BSR might be a good prevention maybe? If so i needs it lol

from what I understand incar vibes might be a bit much for most people

[oskinosmee]

Originally Posted by Darksun280 from what I understand incar vibes might be a bit much for most people

I wouldn't care if the bsr was a slight chance to help the engine stay intact

[Renzokuken]

<----35k 18-20 PSI since the first month of owning the car TBE/FMIC/I/ still no problems. But I do knock like hell when Im not on the 100 octane.

[bf360]

Originally Posted by johnnyspeed6 Does anyone have any direct connection to mazda techs for insight maybe?? I also have to say that I am not TO suprised on some of these engines blowing .. a few of you guys have 5k in mods, meth injection, 20 psi , and upgraded turbos ... you have 2.3 liter motors running into the 12's ... WHICH IS NOT AT ALL UNCOMMON ... BUT, to abuse a motor like that you ALWAYS have to build the bottom end ... factory specs are just not set up to take all of the abuse .. not to mention with the AP tuning and all that jazz ... your rpms are flying off the chart as well ... not hating .. just thinking it through

that is definitely not true, there has to be something that is causing these motors to go, i think this whole open/closed loop shit and too quick spooling turbo are the problems, i really wish someone whos going big with this car would get a standalone

also im thinking the ecu doesnt know what to do under partial throttle so it goes lean

[CMESCOOT]

If i'm not mistaken, All of the big turbo guys on here are using the standback.
And as far as the rpms flying off the charts, that has nothing to do with it. Myself as well as a few others who have popped their motors, did it while at highway speeds at low rpms. I personally was going 75 miles an hour on cruise control on a completely flat road in 6th gear, then BOOM! There was a hole the size of my fist on both sides of cylinder 1, and a chunk of it tore into the coil of my alternator, busted a hole in my radiator, and cut a hose. From what I've read, there is a problem with resonance in the motor at low, constant rpm's that is making the rods snap.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[ASIC_BSEE]

Vibes in the clutch pedal are from an offset balance on the crank shaft caused by a bent rod. Rod being slightly shorter offsets the balance of the crank. Eventually the rod will break.

Bent rods are from Pre-ignition close to BDC when engine is hot, AFR is lean and boost is rolling on.

[JimmyMac]

Updated, more info to come soon.

[ASIC_BSEE]

So, I was at Milam Mazda in puyallup, WA yesterday and asked why the Black MS3 with a front mount IC was there. The service manager said it had a hole in the block. I know the guy is military and deployed and his friend had it towed there for him. He also said it happened while driving under a bridge; just oil light came on and car stopped. Anyone know who this guy is? Like to get him added to the list.

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by ASIC_BSEE So, I was at Milam Mazda in puyallup, WA yesterday and asked why the Black MS3 with a front mount IC was there. The service manager said it had a hole in the block. I know the guy is military and deployed and his friend had it towed there for him. He also said it happened while driving under a bridge; just oil light came on and car stopped. Anyone know who this guy is? Like to get him added to the list.

Christ imagine how many blown motors there are out there that arent reported ont he forum......

[mouse0330]

wow, can't believe that many motor is blown, just want to know the people that had their engine blown are telling the truth about their mod. Lets not forget that our engine is still consider new technology. This is not like the r32 engine that you can mod all you want and get outrageous hp. We are still test rats in this market for our 2.3 disi turbo engine. Haven't heard of any regular 2.3 non turbo engine blowing up yet. Have anybody? There are heavily tune engine out there with no problem. Mine isn't even modded that much, and I drive like crazy, hit a huge dip on the road without know it was there, that was how fast I was going, even hit curb hard during purring rain, replace 2 bad wheels, one was bent. I still drive it hard, almost everyday, I hit into 3 digits when there is no car car around

[JimmyMac]

The anonymous one is an over seas MS3. Meaning, not North American. I'll update later tonight when I get home from work.

[bf360]

funny i go to get my car towed to a shop from where it was at the dealership and i look at a cx7 there working on and the heads on the floor and i was looking at the pistons lol

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by ASIC_BSEE So, I was at Milam Mazda in puyallup, WA yesterday and asked why the Black MS3 with a front mount IC was there. The service manager said it had a hole in the block. I know the guy is military and deployed and his friend had it towed there for him. He also said it happened while driving under a bridge; just oil light came on and car stopped. Anyone know who this guy is? Like to get him added to the list.

I know this guy and have talked to him a few times. He was running 25 + psi on the stock fuel pump with full bolt on's. I forget his name but I did tell him to take it to the dealer, hope they cover it for him.