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MazdaSpeed 3 - Engine, Transmission & Driveline Discussion of engine, tranny and drivelines.


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Old 11-14-2010, 03:38 PM   #1
 
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Default Rattle Not Cured
Ok so i have the rattle that has plagued so many...i bought the tensioner pulley and replaced it...i did not buy the entire assembly just the wheel (it is a dayco part) the old wheel had a noticeable play and once the new one was installed and tight play was gone....thinking it was cured i went for a drive and the rattle remains....noticeably reduced but still there.....im thinking in order to trouble shoot i need to replace the other wheel others have replaced...the idler pulley...however the thread containing the part number was lossed....can some one post the idler pulley p/n? i will get that replaced and keep you guys updated as to whether or not that cures it....im getting scared it may be the VVT.....although i have checked the chain after driving and i dont notice any play....

edit: ok found it...
http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Det...+50042+2042001

50 bucks... =/....

however...looks like you can just buy the bearing http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...CGRPACPTAMS___ and press out the bearin and replace it....however you cannot do this with the tensioner pulley....it is a plastic wheel and the bearing is captive in the wheel and trying to press it out will destroy it....

now....i have a quesiton about the tensioner pulley...on this forum ive seen this one http://www.usallparts.com/catalog/pr...9fd9b202165c89 being cited as the correct pulley....however on some of the other mazda forums im seeing http://www.ryderfleetproducts.com/cg...uct_detail.jsp as being the correct one......now the only difference between the two is the width between the inside flanges.....the dayco pulley is cited as being 23 mm and the duralast is 25 mm....i already have bough and installed te duralast....so i have the oem pulley...i will measure it at work and let you know.....2mm a big difference? the grooves matched up ok...
Last edited by TRex; 11-14-2010 at 07:43 PM.
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Old 11-14-2010, 09:50 PM   #2
 
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How's about this crazy thought:

Pull the belt and see if the noise goes away. That should isolate the problem to one of the spinny bits on the outside of the engine, as opposed to the ones inside. The car will still move and drive around allright for a short while, sans PS, etc.
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Old 11-14-2010, 09:55 PM   #3
 
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wont pulling the belt and running the car fuck with timing and be kinda dangeous...it is just one belt connecting everything....
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Old 11-15-2010, 05:38 AM   #4
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timing is done w/ a chain -- not the belt


i actually did my tensioner/idler w/e the fuck it is friday night at philly's house

i was about three threads away from pulling the whole assembly off when i saw a tiny little pebbly stuck in the grooves of the pulley itself

take off your belt and check to see if any debris has gotten up in there and in any grooves on the pulleys

as soon as i removed that, the sound magically disappeared and i saved myself $65
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Old 11-15-2010, 06:18 AM   #5
 
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well i had the belt off since i did replace the pulley (i didnt buy the whole assembly just the wheel) so any debris caught there should have come loose

if nothing can be harmed by running without the belt then i will just try that and see if it is indeed the idler or VVT
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Old 11-15-2010, 06:38 AM   #6
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no no no -- there was a little rock that was actually STUCK inside the groove of the pulley -- check your other pulley wheels to see if there are any rocks in there

this thing was a BITCH to try and get out of the groove
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Old 11-15-2010, 07:42 AM   #7
 
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ah, ic...yea no rocks in the old pulley (sitting on my desk)..so i dont know...there was noticeable side play in the pulley before i took it off...the new one has 0...i think im going to pull the belt...see if there is any side play in the idler...and then run it and see if it is VVT
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Old 11-15-2010, 08:30 AM   #8
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yeah -- when you have the belt off, check the other pulleys as well for rocks or anyhting odd

post back and let us know whats up
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Old 11-16-2010, 08:36 PM   #9
 
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mini update...ran out to grab a pizza tonight and rattle come on and was quite loud just sitting at idle...when i gave it some gas i went away....left off...no rattle...blip the throttle rattle for a second then gone....no rattle while driving...minor while idling...not thinking it is VVt since it seems that noise changes with RPM...still planning on pulling belts...will update on saturday
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:50 PM   #10
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Does it come and go with any dependency of the clutch pedal (depressed vs engaged)?
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Old 11-17-2010, 06:45 AM   #11
 
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nope

its not the throw out bearing...i threw that one out first...only comes at the initial application of gas (gone once rpms rise) or when i apply minor load to the engine (steer while sitting still or have the AC on)...all of this points to something with the belts
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:52 AM   #12
 
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look what i found

Duralast/Idler Pulley (231144) | Idler Pulley | 2009 Mazda Mazdaspeed3 4 Cylinders L 2.3L DI Turbo DOHC | AutoZone.com

cheap alternative to the 50 dollar napa one....going to pull mine and measure them both up...looking at the two websites though the dimensions are the same....however...the napa and oem idler pulley are metal...where as this one is plastic...worth a shot though...

i am also going to verify whether or not the duralast or dayco tensioner pulley should be used as they have slightly different dimensions (per website duralast 25mm wide dayco 23 mm wide...per measurement oem 23 mm wide)
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Old 11-17-2010, 09:05 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by TRex View Post
nope

its not the throw out bearing...i threw that one out first...only comes at the initial application of gas (gone once rpms rise) or when i apply minor load to the engine (steer while sitting still or have the AC on)...all of this points to something with the belts
Uh, no it doesn't point to the belts, it points to something else entirely. I'm guessing it is the HPFP...

Also, if you pull off the serp belt, the water pump isn't turning so you can't just "drive it around".
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Old 11-17-2010, 09:37 AM   #14
 
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hpfp? that is a new one...per dashhawk my fuel delievery looks ok...any other symptoms that may be about?..it isnt a ticking....it is a rattle....huh...guess ill just pull the belt and rev a bit and see if it is there...

also it isnt constant...this morning i didnt hear it at all...last night i heard it very clearly
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Old 11-20-2010, 10:50 AM   #15
 
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rattle kind of cured...

ok replaced my idler.....stock pulley had TONS of sideplay...replaced it with this Duralast/Idler Pulley (231144)...it is a plasic pulley however...oem is metal...but the only one that sells a metal replacement is napa...for 50 bucks...fuck that...the plastic one was 15.....so yea...put it on...no more side play...fired that bitch up.....and........................very very very minor rattle....not nearly as loud as before.......and now...it doesnt go up with intial rpms like the old rattle.....so now im not sure...i looked at the VVT...chain is tight...no wear marks inside the case.....maybe i have a heat shield loose....regardless i confirmed a cheaper alternative to the napa part....which is a good thing...

so in conclusion if you want to replace your pulleys on the cheap

duralast 231015 (ribbed) tensioner
duralast 231144 (smooth) idler

will work
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Old 11-20-2010, 11:02 AM   #16
 
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good to see theres a cheaper alternative i got the 50 assembly and damn bolt on the tensioner is a 15mm not 14mm like stock this was from gates purchased at kragen
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Old 11-20-2010, 12:47 PM   #17
 
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yea...im considering getting the bolt on tensioner next....i drove a round a bit...the rattle is still there...but not nearly as bad...it is pissig me off that i cant pin it down...i am trying my hardest not to believe it is teh VVt....
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Old 11-20-2010, 01:03 PM   #18
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Welcome to the speed!
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Old 11-21-2010, 10:03 AM   #19
 
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did you have vvt issues sellers?
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Old 11-21-2010, 11:35 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by TRex View Post
Ok so i have the rattle that has plagued so many......
Why don't you record a good video/sound clip and we can tell you what it is????
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Old 11-21-2010, 03:24 PM   #21
 
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here...at the very beginning....22-25 sec and 30 sec mark....a rattle....
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Old 11-21-2010, 03:44 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by TRex View Post
did you have vvt issues sellers?
Yes, mine was only on startup though.
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Old 11-21-2010, 04:27 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by TRex View Post
here...at the very beginning....22-25 sec and 30 sec mark....a rattle....
Yeah, I think I hear what you're talking about. Sounds like the timing chain tensioner to me. The tensioner is a known problem area. The dealers are changing them out if under warranty. The tensioner is spring loaded and the spring gets weak and will let the chain go slack. Sometimes they fail completely and you get the chain hitting the cover, etc. Sounds like yours is just getting a bit weaker and allowing the chain to go slack when the revs stsrt up, then it catches up.
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Old 11-21-2010, 05:16 PM   #24
 
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yea..thats what im afraid of...i think im going to go ahead an put the old pullies back on and stock out and head to the dealership
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Old 11-21-2010, 07:57 PM   #25
 
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how difficult of a job is it to replace the chain tensioner?
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Old 11-22-2010, 06:44 AM   #26
 
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not sure...but i sure as hell am not going to pull off the cover while im still under warranty...the pulleys took like 20 min (after getting the car in the air)
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:28 PM   #27
 
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Rattle cured

dealership replaced the tensioner assembly (they said the spring was weak and it was bouncing tight loose tight loose causing the rattle)

what does this mean? it seems the pulleys may not be to blame for the rattle issue...
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:29 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by TRex View Post
Rattle cured

dealership replaced the tensioner assembly (they said the spring was weak and it was bouncing tight loose tight loose causing the rattle)

what does this mean? it seems the pulleys may not be to blame for the rattle issue...
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Old 12-09-2010, 07:29 AM   #29
 
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got em on last night as soon as i pulled in the drive way (simple shit...SRI and TP)...but thanks for the offer...ill hit you up when i go FMIC and what not

o and just to be clear as i was rereading the comments...it wasn't the chain tensioner...it was the belt tensioner assembly
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:22 PM   #30
 
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Originally Posted by TRex View Post
got em on last night as soon as i pulled in the drive way (simple shit...SRI and TP)...but thanks for the offer...ill hit you up when i go FMIC and what not

o and just to be clear as i was rereading the comments...it wasn't the chain tensioner...it was the belt tensioner assembly
I replaced the chain, VVT actuator, pulley, chain guides, tensioner but the ticking problem still remains.

What do you mean by belt tensioner assembly, what belt? What parts does this assembly include?
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Old 01-12-2011, 08:12 PM   #31
 
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So for clarity it was BELT tensioner not timing chain related? I had my pulley tensioner go out at 25k when i was only mildly modified (intake,rmm,cbe) dealer replaced mine no problems..
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Old 01-13-2011, 07:33 AM   #32
 
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correct it was BELT tensioner that was replaced...nothing to do with chain

unfortunately it seems the rattle is NOT coming from the play in the pulley wheel (as i replaced those myself and still had the rattle) it was coming from the assembly itself
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Old 04-05-2011, 09:52 PM   #33
 
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Originally Posted by TRex View Post
correct it was BELT tensioner that was replaced...nothing to do with chain

unfortunately it seems the rattle is NOT coming from the play in the pulley wheel (as i replaced those myself and still had the rattle) it was coming from the assembly itself
sorry for the bump but any alternatives besides going to the dealer? anything i can buy from the auto parts store?
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Old 04-05-2011, 10:25 PM   #34
 
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Originally Posted by AFcadet View Post
Alright I replaced the tensioner and it fixed the problem!

I didn't have to take the wheel off actually...

It wasnt a 1/2 inch wrench. It was a 14mm. Just put it on the bolt that is right on the pully...and turn it clockwise and it will lift the entire pully up.

It took a little wiggling to get the belt off. It was a really tight fit. Using a screwdriver as a lever to peel the belt off of the pulley helps.

The tensioner was held on by 2 10mm bolts that were torqued down pretty hard...then the tensioner came right off.

Installed the other one...slid the belt back over in the reverse order of taking it off...and it was done.

Started the car up...no problems...no squealing when its cold...no rattle.


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Old 04-06-2011, 06:47 AM   #35
 
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^haha yea that is the only alternative for the entire assembly also look in my original post there is a NAPA part # but the link no worky any more...but yea that part looks to be the same
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Old 09-16-2011, 07:20 AM   #36
 
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I changed my belt tensioner assembly and still have the rattle. So my next step was to open the oil cap (When the engine was cold) to see if my chain had tension on it. Since I was able to basically lift the chain off of the sprocket, I now know the source of the rattle.
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