Replacing timing chain

[qtrmile beast]

Originally Posted by oodavo Mazda dealer called today and said the noise i am hearing is not the chain hitting the valve cover because they did not see any signs of this in the cover, even though they admited some slack. They said the noise is a bad belt tensioner and it is not covered under the powertrain warranty....FML

good easy fix then!!!1-2 hours of your day DONE!!!

[Raider]

Find in your manual, the powertrain warranty. Last I checked, it was. Chain and tensioner are both covered.

[oodavo]

agreed, accept im still not totally convinced thats the problem, guess i will find out

Originally Posted by Raider Find in your manual, the powertrain warranty. Last I checked, it was. Chain and tensioner are both covered.

belt tensioner......not chain

[qtrmile beast]

Originally Posted by oodavo agreed, accept im still not totally convinced thats the problem, guess i will find out belt tensioner......not chain

Do you think you are good with a wrench? if so then get your car back if they are giving you the run around and i can show you how to do the install. IF you need pics i can give them to you as well !!! weather its the chain tensioner or the belt tensioner

[Raider]

Oh, serpentine belt tensioner. Common, can be bought at Napa for 20 bucks (it's universal) and a half hour.

[oodavo]

Originally Posted by qtrmile beast Do you think you are good with a wrench? if so then get your car back if they are giving you the run around and i can show you how to do the install. IF you need pics i can give them to you as well !!! weather its the chain tensioner or the belt tensioner

Im pretty good with a wrench but I dont have much experience. I do have access to a lift which should help. Any advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated as i already told mazda i dont want to spend the $500 for them to do it. I see your from the east coast, wheree abouts? im in CT

[qtrmile beast]

Originally Posted by oodavo Im pretty good with a wrench but I dont have much experience. I do have access to a lift which should help. Any advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated as i already told mazda i dont want to spend the $500 for them to do it. I see your from the east coast, wheree abouts? im in CT

MD.... let me know when you are ready!!

[oodavo]

nice i have been in DC this week for work. Im assuming the ms6 just has one belt tensioner? also, how much do they run?

[FamiliaGT]

The tensioner retails for $148.11, and with someone experienced to help you, should only take about 45 mins to an hour depending the venue you have to work in.

Part number is LF1715980D

And just for the record, the VVT actuator is oil fed(runs off oil pressure), and when the engines off, oil may drain, giving the unit space to move on the cam. This is where you hear the clacky noises on cold starts, as oil pressure builds and pressurizes the actuator. The new ones or un damaged actuators dont really allow the oil to drain which is why you wont hear it commonly on good actuators.

This being said, a bad actuator will allow the chain to "Flop" or move alot more then it should. This does NOT mean the tensioner itself is bad. Per Mazda and the TSB, Replacing the actuator alone with the diamond washer and crank bolt is typically the solution to the problem. Only once had a CX7 return with chain movement afterwords, which needed the tensioner. I replaced my VVT when I bought my Speed 3 used (had 93k and the previous owner neglected the need for a new VVT actuator for a year) and in the process replaced the timing chain as well to be safe but not the tensioner. Original tensioner is still nice and tight.

[oodavo]

Thanks a lot, great info +1

[cbspeed3]

just got finished putting mine back together. tesioner didnt seem bad but was fully extended from chain being worn,but i changed tensioner,chainand guides. new parts on tensioner was only extended about 1/2 inch. toke a few pics of everything,will post when i get home from work.car runs really good,no stutter so far,pulls hard,drove to san antonio texas over the weekend and all is good,still get pt knock when cruising,and got 1.1 at 5000 rpm wot a few times for just a second.just ordered cp-e injector seals,going to change those next,just to make sure,got almost 70000 on the clock.

[cbspeed3]

update with pics on page 1

[Tech/Sales@EM]

Originally Posted by cbspeed3 just got finished putting mine back together. tesioner didnt seem bad but was fully extended from chain being worn,but i changed tensioner,chainand guides. new parts on tensioner was only extended about 1/2 inch. toke a few pics of everything,will post when i get home from work.car runs really good,no stutter so far,pulls hard,drove to san antonio texas over the weekend and all is good,still get pt knock when cruising,and got 1.1 at 5000 rpm wot a few times for just a second.just ordered cp-e injector seals,going to change those next,just to make sure,got almost 70000 on the clock.

you replace the smaller chain as well. Mine seems pretty loose.

[Novej]

Originally Posted by oodavo Mazda dealer called today and said the noise i am hearing is not the chain hitting the valve cover because they did not see any signs of this in the cover, even though they admited some slack. They said the noise is a bad belt tensioner and it is not covered under the powertrain warranty....FML

Dude this is utter bullshit...I went in to my dealership with a constant ticking noise that I would hear especially while idling parked by other vehicles, or driving by curbs....They told me they diagnosed it down to that belt tensioner and replaced it free of charge. They had to order the parts and it took them about an hour to change it once they came in.....But I agree with everyone else you really can do it on your own if you have any compitense working on engines once so ever....

[cbspeed3]

There shouldn't be any slack in a timing chain. My was very tight until I heard the ticking sound. They said it was my vvt I said it was chain and tensioner..... The fuckers were half right, they where all bad. Tensioner was maxed out the chain was so worn

[Tech/Sales@EM]

Yeah its a chain of issues lol

Actuator is bad so it put more stress on the tensioner which puts more stress on chain etc. I say replace it all once and don't worry about it again.

[cbspeed3]

I agree!!!! Do it all while it's apart. Wasn't that difficult, but I am a mechanic by trade just not automobile mechanic. All I used was FSM and some pics from streetunitmarks build thread. Tell you the truth, the little blue quick connect on the fuel line gave me more trouble than anything else, toke me 2 hours to get the little bastard back on rite cause it had been a few days and I forgot how it went together and it's so small and fragile and the fucking overhead light in my garage sucks donkey dick....... But car runs great now, better than new, waiting for my Cpe injector seals now, going to do them just for good measure. Got 70,000 on the clock now and I want to order an ap and start some molding. Had to take my Cobb intake off cause it was causing my trims to be way off( lean) and was getting a pretty good boost spike(18). Factory intake no more issues. Car did pull like a mutherfucker though, no knock either but I'm sure it would have vented my block via connecting rod if I would have left it on.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by cbspeed3 There shouldn't be any slack in a timing chain. My was very tight until I heard the ticking sound. They said it was my vvt I said it was chain and tensioner..... The fuckers were half right, they where all bad. Tensioner was maxed out the chain was so worn

So you're saying between the cam gears, even when the engine is cold, and there is no slack in a downward direction, that there should be any upward slack either?

[cbspeed3]

That's how mine was until it started to give me trouble, so that is what mechanics have told me also. Unless you have a bad component. I used to check mine through the oil cap every oil change cause I know of the issue other people were having. I've put almost 2000 miles and mine and it is still very tight when the engine is cold. This is just my opinion based on my experience with my care. It may be ok to have a very small amount of movement up and down when pushed on or pulled up but it should not have slack so that the chain is sagging between sprockets.

[Tokay444]

I really appreciate your info and opinion. I have no sag, but I have slack in an upward direction. Enough so that I would say loose. About 1/2-5/8 of an inch upward.

[cbspeed3]

mine had almost an inch of slack in it.the chain was sagging between the sprockets.i have pics on my phone ,let me see if i can post them.

[Tokay444]

I think I might be in the clear as I have no sag, but I'm gonna have it looked at just to be sure. What are the ill side affects of a bad chain tensioner/vt actuator?

[cbspeed3]

Well, I was getting hesitation, loss of power, audible pinging( knock). And the vvt would rattle at startup and once the car was warmed up I would hear the chain rattling. Also under lite throttle I could hear the chain rattle.

[Tech/Sales@EM]

K my engine is back together. Chain was shot, Was a few cms longer than the new chain I bought, Tensioner felt fine to me to reuse but it did feel like their was less tension on the piston vs the new one. The actuator was actually the same part number as the one I took off and the one I used to replace it. The numbers below the part number were not the same so I am guessing thats a revision number. All in all the chain is tout now where as before it flopped around quite a bit. I can see this being a job that needs to be done again in 35K miles. It is something we should all be monitoring for as its life or death of the engine. I will post pics and vids at some point today.

[qtrmile beast]

Originally Posted by MazdaMadness K my engine is back together. Chain was shot, Was a few cms longer than the new chain I bought, Tensioner felt fine to me to reuse but it did feel like their was less tension on the piston vs the new one. The actuator was actually the same part number as the one I took off and the one I used to replace it. The numbers below the part number were not the same so I am guessing thats a revision number. All in all the chain is tout now where as before it flopped around quite a bit. I can see this being a job that needs to be done again in 35K miles. It is something we should all be monitoring for as its life or death of the engine. I will post pics and vids at some point today.

CONGRATS!!!!!!!!!!

[Tokay444]

Please do me a favor. Through the oil filler cap, put your finger in and hook the chain. Do you have any slack in an upward direction?

[qtrmile beast]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Please do me a favor. Through the oil filler cap, put your finger in and hook the chain. Do you have any slack in an upward direction?

motors not in the car...

[Tech/Sales@EM]

And Like I said no slack compared to previous...

[Tokay444]

Fuck. I guess I had better do mine.

[Tech/Sales@EM]

One Cam Bolt
One Crank Bolt
One Washer for Camshaft
VVT Actuator
Tensioner
Chain

I recommend replacing all of em. Im piecing together the kit for those that need to do the repair and dont feel like Paying absurd amounts that the dealer and others ask for.

[Tokay444]

Could you include the timing tools?

[Tech/Sales@EM]

Yes.

[easy]

just did mine not that long ago and got vvt, tensioner, chain, washer, guide for $227 shipped from mazda-parts.com . If you can do something cheaper than that .. that would be pretty awesome.

[Tech/Sales@EM]

Would most likely be right around the same price. Guess the buying point would be if someone didnt have the tools to do it. Id ship them to them to perform the job properly

[Tokay444]

would be greatly appreciated on my end.

[Alpha]

+ Madness. I really want to get mine done before it goes out!

[Tech/Sales@EM]

Well you better. I forgot to take a pic and vid before I put valve cover on. But the difference is night and day. Replace chain, tensioner and actuator. I got a whole pile of tools here for anyone to rent or buy. Very decently priced. Once Im moved into vender forum area I will post details. I was stupid to drive the MS6 with the issue happening. I looked back the other day at a pic before the job and I swear it looks like the cams were out of alignment from jumping timing. So close to blowing motor its unbelievable it didnt happen. Gonna compression test tonight.

[Alpha]

Wow... We need a write up on this. How difficult is the install?

That kit would be great if you can put it together bro, I'll be your first customer on those haha!

The DCR VVT looks good!

Originally Posted by easysp33d just did mine not that long ago and got vvt, tensioner, chain, washer, guide for $227 shipped from mazda-parts.com . If you can do something cheaper than that .. that would be pretty awesome.

Do you guys have part #s for what's needed for a full VVT overhaul? Might as well do it all at once.

[Tech/Sales@EM]

I did it with motor out of car so it wasnt that difficult. The issue was not having the tools hence why I have a bunch being made in a CNC shop right now. I tried by eye balling but when I went to double check to see how close I was on timing...once I took the HPFP off I found out how off I was.

Valve Cover Gasket: L3K9-10-230
Serpentine: L3K9-15-909-9U
Chain: L3K9-12-201A
Actuator: L3K9-12-4X0C
Tensioner: L3K9-12-500A
Washer: L3K9-12-429
CamShaft Bolt: LF01-11-406

I replaced everything as if I tear it down I want it back together new and I know in best working order. Serpentine could easily be reused but in my case was covered in ATF from the PS reservoir so it was weakened.

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by MazdaMadness I did it with motor out of car so it wasnt that difficult. The issue was not having the tools hence why I have a bunch being made in a CNC shop right now. I tried by eye balling but when I went to double check to see how close I was on timing...once I took the HPFP off I found out how off I was. Valve Cover Gasket: L3K9-10-230 Serpentine: L3K9-15-909-9U Chain: L3K9-12-201A Actuator: L3K9-12-4X0C Tensioner: L3K9-12-500A Washer: L3K9-12-429 CamShaft Bolt: LF01-11-406 I replaced everything as if I tear it down I want it back together new and I know in best working order. Serpentine could easily be reused but in my case was covered in ATF from the PS reservoir so it was weakened.

Perfect as I'll need the tools too! Please updated this thread with progress and we'll be in touch. Thanks bro!