Spark Plug Database - Colder Than Stock ( Stage 1&2 )

[3Gee Tee]

What do you recommend on a stock motor? Would I see any benefits running a 1 step colder plug or should I just stick with OEM specs?

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by 3Gee Tee What do you recommend on a stock motor? Would I see any benefits running a 1 step colder plug or should I just stick with OEM specs?

If you are running boost levels>stock, you may benefit, otherwise stick with the factory heat range.

[3Gee Tee]

10-4, thanks for the input.

Followup question: Which brand? I hear good things on this forum about NGK and Denso so I assume they're both comparable?

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by 3Gee Tee 10-4, thanks for the input. Followup question: Which brand? I hear good things on this forum about NGK and Denso so I assume they're both comparable?

It looks as if people are slowly moving to NGK because of some recent findings of cracked porcelain on the Denso's.

The NGK will need to be regapped because the out of the box gap is a bit large for the ms3.

[burn813]

I hate to say it rob, but the matte black wrap you have on your car looks DOPE..... how much did it end up costing you?

[BudUMfan]

I am running stock boost...for now with step colder NKG's...no issues

[3Gee Tee]

Originally Posted by BudUMfan I am running stock boost...for now with step colder NKG's...no issues

What brand and did you have to regap them?


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[BudUMfan]

I have NKG and gapped to .030, I will be running 19.5lbs when I retune.

[burn813]

@rfinkle2 answer my question mang

[silvapain]

Only use plug gapper tools to open up the plug gap; not to actually measure the gap. Use a set of feeler gauges to measure gap properly.


Tapadatass

[speed0450]

From reading the thread, since I currently only have a cobb sri and I am running stock boost levels should I go 1 step colder or just stick with the stock heat range. Also have the denso problems been worked out? Thanks

[tddvrrn]

Originally Posted by speed0450 From reading the thread, since I currently only have a cobb sri and I am running stock boost levels should I go 1 step colder or just stick with the stock heat range. Also have the denso problems been worked out? Thanks

if you had read the thread, you would have read, a whole bunch of times, that stock boost=stock heat range plugs.

maybe it is time to work on the comprehension part of reading?

[speed0450]

thanks for your input. but also some of the people that are on stock boost are running one step colder and was hoping to hear from them on there opinions of how the car is running with them. i do comprehend reading thru posts and searching before I post. that is the reason that i donated to help the forum stay up and running for me to gain knowledge as everyone else. fyi... ..has never been in my system.

[theurgy]

I'm currently running ITV-22's while I'm in between tuning solutions at the moment.
I am currently still on stock tune and boost and it runs fine.

[smoogs12]

@speed0450 you want to run the hottest plug you can without pre-ignition.

Tapa

[khoney]

Originally Posted by Haltech Twist in until it stops by hand using the extension of the ratchet.. than one 1/4 inch turn to secure. Be sure to use a dab of anti seize on the threads and a dab of di-electric grease on the top of the plug where the coil connects to.

FYI for everyone replacing plugs (especially NGK). It is recommended that anti-sieze NOT be used on initial installation of many spark plugs, especially if you have aluminum cylinder heads. NGK specifically has a tech bulletin related to this (see below). Many plugs these days have a special plating on them that is specifically for anti-sieze purposes. Pretty much any plug with shiny silver threads has this plating. As an old-schooler, this came as a surprise to me, but I no longer apply antisieze to new plugs after reading this:

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/pdf/tb-...1antisieze.pdf

If you inspect your plugs and reinstall them, the plating can be compromised and then anti-seize may be warranted. Just wanted to pass this along, because I know it flies in the face of what we've been told for many years.

[Mfinlay04]

A little concerned NAPA was my previous source for Denso ITV22 plugs and always had them readily available from their warehouse. Granted this was in SoCal, but none of the Midwest Napa's have any or show any in any warehouse or from the mfg. I surely hope these plugs are not getting fazed out... I know they are available online but if they are being discontinued from Denso I might need to stock pile them until a reasonably priced replacement arises.

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[jmhinkle]

The Denso one step plugs are notorious for self destructing in our cars. If you are running one steps please use the NGK models for now. Dustin has handfuls of the Denso's people have sent him with cracked or missing internal ceramics that fall down to the ground straps or come off completely.

[Mfinlay04]

Hmm I've been running then for 2+ years zero issues. I ran NGK once took them out after 1k miles as I did not like the way they ran. Changing the gap from .05 down to .028 really messes up the electrode imo

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[jmhinkle]

Take your chances as you wish, It's a known and documented problem the Denso is kind of looking into. Gapping the NGK's is far better than busting that ceramic off inside your cylinder. Luckily two of mine only fell down on the ground strap.

[Nitr0EngiE]

I like the stock plugs the best, I am using the NGK stock plugs right now stock heat range and these runs are using the stock NGK with NOOOO meth at 24 psi .. and i had no knocking at all.

I have problems with Denso plugs fouling or falling apart and i really have 0 issues whenever i run stock plugs

I left the gaps at .30 as they came as well, but im running kenne belle boost a spark

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...6/#post1997252

and +1

I had a Denso Cermaic Crack on me, luckily it did not fall apart but when pulled from motor is was fawked

[HawkeyeGeoff]

I'm struggling to see a need to go a step colder if I don't see any knocks.

I will be at stage II 93 octane on a COBB AP OTS map within the month (running a stage 1 now), so maybe re investigate the knocks situation? Or should I just go ahead and throw a step colder in before I see any signs that I actually need them?

I just have doubts that it is actually needed with just a tip, intake, and test pipe. Opinions?

[anavrinIV]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeGeoff I'm struggling to see a need to go a step colder if I don't see any knocks. I will be at stage II 93 octane on a COBB AP OTS map within the month (running a stage 1 now), so maybe re investigate the knocks situation? Or should I just go ahead and throw a step colder in before I see any signs that I actually need them? I just have doubts that it is actually needed with just a tip, intake, and test pipe. Opinions?

I ran stock plugs with full bolt-ons, minus an intercooler. I put in ngk step colder plugs a couple weeks ago because it was time for a change anyway, and I have lots of flow mods and a tune in the process.

I didn't notice a difference, my stock plugs were beast.

[HawkeyeGeoff]

Yeh that's kind of what I'm thinking. I think i'll just watch it and make sure I get no knocks or misfires and we are in golden territory.

Thanks for the advice!

[Temashi]

Good stuff ! Still not sure if I should upgrade my plugs with all the issues ppl are having.

[MSMS3]

Originally Posted by Mfinlay04 Hmm I've been running then [Denso] for 2+ years zero issues. I ran NGK once took them out after 1k miles as I did not like the way they ran. Changing the gap from .05 down to .028 really messes up the electrode imo Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

You gapped the NGK's incorrectly, if you did not like the way they ran.

If you do it properly there is no issue in gapping them from .045" to .028" or even .026". You may have scraped the iridium or bent the ground strap out of proper alignment.

Done properly, the strap will still be very close to perpendicular to the center electrode, regardless of what seems like a pretty extreme reduction.

Our cars are hard on plugs, expecially if you run higher than stock boost and romp the car pretty regularly. I've decided to routinely change them out every 20,000 miles. I'm at 88,000 miles. OEM's were NGK's, I'm on my 4th set of 6510 NGK's, one step colder.

No problem regapping any of them to .028."

[Livingframe]

Hello MSF.

Cliff notes: Index your spark plugs and mod the ground electrode. good
for 8-12whp from 3800-6200whp on the stock tune.

I discovered something that I feel like could benefit everyone here. First off, this is a
gain derived from a modified/indexed spark plug setting:

MYFIRST_2013dyno_1 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

on another dyno, I backtracked as what was done was not verifiable on the
butt-dyno. this chart will show three runs: all at .026"
Blue - Factory plug, factory plug gap indexing
Red - Factory plug, all plug gaps facing 6:00 *
Green - My modified plug, indexed to 6:00

* Reasoning behind a 6:00 gap position - facing intake valves/fuel sprayers/explosion force acts on piston in the rotational direction of the engine. i.e. making benefit in
similar manner that proper ignition timing helps it turn faster.

plug testing | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

^ this dyno is registered in SAE whp. the top number at '239' is '245' on STD and
correlates to the '262' number on the top dyno. Only difference is that the MPT
dyno I iced my stock intercooler for 45 min before the runs. at LaMotta's I did
not use ice at all, drove in from the street cooled for 30 min with a fan and
as soon as I could change plugs, 18-20min and reindex, we made another hit.

I do have video of the runs but have to put it together. The modified plug
helped me as I drove the car better from a 14.5 down to a 14.1. I have all
the papers. At some point, I was able to better dial in my 60' and get into
13s in full Orlando heat at full weight. I do have a few other things helping this
car, however its been fun to 'find' a little extra help with some hidden ponies.
I don't know how to post the images in the page so you'll have to go off-site
to my flickr acct to see the dyno images. I'll leave you with a pic of the plug
mod I do.

PLUG | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

The indexing is achieved with 14mm tapered seat washers. They come in a
set. The gain is global, all the time; part throttle... transition to WOT. Its
very smooth. Take it for what it's worth... for me it's been worth a lot.
Car has had closer to equal forces acting on the pistons for some time with
the indexed plugs. I have had them set up this way for a couple months now.
Right around 2000 miles I indexed my stock plugs and then about a thousand
miles later I ordered a couple sets of the LTR6IX-11 NGK plug. Recently I
drove up to the Mazda Meet/Eat in Jax from Orlando on a 1/4 tank. 136mi.
Partial throttle MPG increases. I also had a splash of Torco octane additive.
I get about 24mpg in town. I can get close to 30+ on the highway if I'm driving
sanely.

Let me know how I can better explain the gains I am experiencing in my car.
Its something that's 'there' for the taking. I can also put some kits together
if enough people express interest. LMK. Thank you, Michael

[Broad Street Bully]

So I'm confused a little. On a different thread on here, edgeautosport claimed that the denso plugs were on constant backorder, yet here people are stating that the ngk plugs are the way to go. Is one set better than the other or do we agree that it's just a matter of preference?? I have a cs sri, tip, dp, cbe, and ap running stage 2 ots map. I just ordered the denso itv22. Also, there seems to still be some agreeing to disagree on putting anti seize on the plugs. I have read so many threads on here regarding spark plugs but I feel like it just makes it more confusing with all the opinions.

Oh and hpfp also. Sorry

[FreshAsWoodie]

Really don't understand this even after reading. I am guessing I will be needing to go a step colder or 2. Also what would I should gap it at. My mods are in my sig. All help will be appreciated.

[JpMuRkS]

I wanna run NGK copper should I be jumping down 2 heat ranges? And on the first post it doesn't say which heat range of the NGK coppers 5306 and 4306 and what our stock heat range 7??

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[hnda etr]

Originally Posted by FreshAsWoodie Really don't understand this even after reading. I am guessing I will be needing to go a step colder or 2. Also what would I should gap it at. My mods are in my sig. All help will be appreciated.

Can't see your sig in Tapatalk, but you don't need to go 2 steps colder unless you are REALLY pushing more boost - like in the 30's I'm guessing, running nitrous or some other setup that makes crazy power. For minimal mods, you don't even need to go 1 step colder. If you're moderately modded and running higher than stock boost pressure, 1 step colder is fine. Gap should be set to 0.026-0.028" - tighter (0.026") for higher boost and custom tunes, looser (0.028") for OTS maps. If you have blowout 0.028", reduce to 0.026". 0.025" is about the tightest I've heard people run.

Point is, you want to run the hottest plug you can, while controlling heat and detonation.

Originally Posted by JpMuRkS I wanna run NGK copper should I be jumping down 2 heat ranges? And on the first post it doesn't say which heat range of the NGK coppers 5306 and 4306 and what our stock heat range 7?? Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

See above post about 2 steps colder.

Also, people run Iridium plugs because of the longevity they offer, and even then, in a lightly modded car the plugs only last around 15k miles or so. Going to copper plugs will require changing them even more often because of the softer material. Rethink that one..

[FreshAsWoodie]

Originally Posted by hnda etr Can't see your sig in Tapatalk, but you don't need to go 2 steps colder unless you are REALLY pushing more boost - like in the 30's I'm guessing, running nitrous or some other setup that makes crazy power. For minimal mods, you don't even need to go 1 step colder. If you're moderately modded and running higher than stock boost pressure, 1 step colder is fine. Gap should be set to 0.026-0.028" - tighter (0.026") for higher boost and custom tunes, looser (0.028") for OTS maps. If you have blowout 0.028", reduce to 0.026". 0.025" is about the tightest I've heard people run. Point is, you want to run the hottest plug you can, while controlling heat and detonation.

I talked to my friend at work and he pretty much said the same thing. 1 step colder he said wouldn't really be needed. I have the Cobb TIH, Cobb SRI, Cobb FMIC. A downpipe and hpfp internals. He said I would be good with Denso stock heat range. I'll probably be looking at buying some tomorrow or sometime soon. Thanks again for the info.

[El Beaner]

Just wondering who else has run the Autolites? Amazon has a killer deal right now on them - $5.99/each prime shipping and Autolite has a rebate of $2.50 per plug

From reading in the thread only 1 person posted about running them so not sure about going that route.

[darthxar]

Originally Posted by El Beaner Just wondering who else has run the Autolites? Amazon has a killer deal right now on them - $5.99/each prime shipping and Autolite has a rebate of $2.50 per plug From reading in the thread only 1 person posted about running them so not sure about going that route.

I just noticed a local store near me had these for 5.99 each as well. I was thinking that at that price I could change them every 10K miles and not worry too much about their longevity. But I have not seen much feed back from anyone on these plugs

[El Beaner]

Originally Posted by darthxar I just noticed a local store near me had these for 5.99 each as well. I was thinking that at that price I could change them every 10K miles and not worry too much about their longevity. But I have not seen much feed back from anyone on these plugs

Found this thread that has people saying they are not bad just gapped at .50

Are autolite iriduim plugs thaaaat bad?

[darthxar]

Looks like the autolites are probably fine, as long as you don't expect to long of a life from them. Could order a couple sets while there is the rebate and just change them at 10k to 15k before any problems develop.

[BAT-man]

you can get the one-step colder NGK's for very cheap from AdvanceAuto if you use their discount codes which you can get online. I got myself 3 sets for less than two sets would cost anywhere else online.

[jmhinkle]

My roommate has been running the autolites for over a year. He has a GTX3071 and meth injection. He beats on the car pretty hard. Never has blow out and hasn't replaced them yet. They seem to work well for him.

[MSMS3]

I think there are enough satisfied users with the Autolite iridium plugs to say they are gtg. But the surface of their center electrode is iridium enhanced, whereas the NGKs are a pure iridium coating. The NGKs will last longer and are priced similarly, sometimes cheaper. The stock plugs are NGK sourced. The one step colder 6510s are what I run with my mods and I'll continue to use them.

Whatever you run, gap them .026" to .028".

[jmhinkle]

Originally Posted by MSMS3 I think there are enough satisfied users with the Autolite iridium plugs to say they are gtg. But the surface of their center electrode is iridium enhanced, whereas the NGKs are a pure iridium coating. The NGKs will last longer and are priced similarly, sometimes cheaper. The stock plugs are NGK sourced. The one step colder 6510s are what I run with my mods and I'll continue to use them. Whatever you run, gap them .026" to .028".

On what planet? The cheapest deal I've ever gotten on NGK's was right at $8 per plug with shipping. Local prices with tax put them over that range. NGK's definitely have never been at $5 a plug or $2.50 after a rebate. I've never run the Autolites, but my roommates last longer than my NGK's do as well. Not to mention he runs stock temp plugs on 30 psi x76 car. I had to buy a set at this price because bang for buck they will dominate the NGK even if I replace them twice a year.