MS6 CXRacing 2.25 FMIC DIY Setup

[2.3speed06]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble I was able to get my CX Racing FMIC below the crash bar and still keep the lower valance in place. This did require some major surgery on the valance though. I need to realign the FMIC to the center of the car; I didn't realize that it was slightly off center until I got it all back together. I think the FMIC looks WAY BETTER if it is up in the grille ala cut crash bar like yours. Functional wise, I don't think it really matters that much in terms of airflow across the IC. I am sure my IC is getting plenty of airflow though I may revisit better directing the air with a shroud myself. Hey, I learned that the hose clamps get a little loose as the FMIC stuff heat cycles a few times. Don't forget to go back through and retighten everything.

What are your coolant temps like just DD it dude?

[dale_gribble]

My coolant temps are typically 180-200 after fmic.

I will say for those that may not know, the fmic only lowers bats under boost and reduces ic heat soak. That's its only job. It doesn't lower iats or coolant temps i.e. the engine doesn't run any cooler.

I noticed that my tmic used to heat soak so bad that the bats would barely go lower when I boosted in traffic or around town. Now the temps will always drop with fmic and it won't heat soak.

[2.3speed06]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble My coolant temps are typically 180-200 after fmic. I will say for those that may not know, the fmic only lowers bats under boost and reduces ic heat soak. That's its only job. It doesn't lower iats or coolant temps i.e. the engine doesn't run any cooler. I noticed that my tmic used to heat soak so bad that the bats would barely go lower when I boosted in traffic or around town. Now the temps will always drop with fmic and it won't heat soak.

See I can live with coolant temps in that range. Nothing wrong with his placement. What size is your core?

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

I have yet to see coolant temps over 180 since opening up the front end. But should see a drop once I catch all that free air lol. The inter cooler placement can have an effect on the coolant temp though. Poor air movement means less cooling efficiency. And I have seen some thick cores being used and bad placement and both of those are big factors there. Better to go bigger and catch more air and thinner so that there is less restriction then the inverse of that. That's my take on it at least

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

not going to post too much up about it yet but after cutting up my front bumper i noticed something, I may be testing a evolution style intercooler and have the hot side pipe come over the engine and in between the top of the rad and the btm of the hood. Obviously some cutting will be in order of the plastic shroud covering that area, and will be removing stock intercooler duct. What this will allow me to do is create a hot side piping setup with literally only 1 x 45 deg bend and 1 x 75 deg bend vs my current 1 x 45 and 3 x 75's. This would greatly reduce piping length as well. And if I were to go top mount turbo then the hotside would only see one 75 deg bend dropping infront of the radiator and thats it!!!! It would be a very minimal setup and im sure would be extremely efficient. Obviously this would be a future on going build but it would not require me buying any new piping just a used evolution intercooler or just a cxracing evo style intercooler like this Bolt On Upgrade Intercooler Lancer Evolution EVO X | eBay

Stock evo X IC
Overall size: 28x12x2.75
Core size: 19.25x11.5x2.75
2.75" core, 2.4" Inlet & outlet


Upgraded cxracing evo X IC
Overall Size: 29x14x3.5
Core Size: 20x12x3.5
3.5" core, 2.75" Inlet & outlet

The other design feature i would implement is keeping my 2.25 piping on the hot side but then matching the TBs 2.75 dia on the cold side coming off the intercooler. So this may be my next path in the search for the most efficient fmic setup! Looks to me like the stock evo x intercooler will be the best deal and an easy find. The size would still be an upgrade from my current setup and the stock fluting on the evo x intercooler looks superior to cxracing design as well.

[redmnsterut]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble I was able to get my CX Racing FMIC below the crash bar and still keep the lower valance in place. This did require some major surgery on the valance though. I need to realign the FMIC to the center of the car; I didn't realize that it was slightly off center until I got it all back together. I think the FMIC looks WAY BETTER if it is up in the grille ala cut crash bar like yours. Functional wise, I don't think it really matters that much in terms of airflow across the IC. I am sure my IC is getting plenty of airflow though I may revisit better directing the air with a shroud myself. Hey, I learned that the hose clamps get a little loose as the FMIC stuff heat cycles a few times. Don't forget to go back through and retighten everything.

White looks sexy as hell! and do you have pics or the valance and where you cut it?

[dale_gribble]

I will provide some information today, but I don't want to thread creep so I will start a new thread.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble I will provide some information today, but I don't want to thread creep so I will start a new thread.

please post a link to your thread! thanks!

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

New Update: Even less bends and less piping v3.0 looks to be the best yet by far.

I modified the cold side to now only have a 75 deg. bend, 90 deg. bend and a 45 deg. bend. This also shortened my piping roughly 4-6in. Im going to update the original post with all the new routing and bends. Crash bar is painted. New grills have been made for both the top and btm openings. the front end comes back off today for some more head light resurfacing and to need to wrap my exhaust mani.

[Mistersix]

FWIW, i've noticed no difference in Coolant temps. The rad still gets plenty of flow.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

Finished pics

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

FINALLY MANAGED TO UPDATE THE OP WITH ALL PICS AND DATA CHECK IT OUT!!!!!!!:phillyb:

[dale_gribble]

Interesting! Having just done the CX Racing 'bolt on' kit, I see the differences of each.

I am uncertain if it is optimal to heat wrap the hot side of the intercooler tubing. Is your logic to retain the heat in the tube to lower under hood temps? Otherwise, the metal tubing is in essence a heat sink in and of itself. Heat from the boosted air is likely being cooled through conduction through the tubing all of the way to the intercooler. Airflow is still coming in through our grilles where the TMIC used to be and presumably providing some fresh outside air across the top of the motor and the FMIC tubing.

I was actually thinking of going the other direction and adding some type of heat sinking to the hot side tubing to try and draw more heat away from the hot side boosted air tubing through conduction. We need to figure out what the ambient air temperature is at the top of the engine near where the tubing runs and see what the temperature offset is between that and the hot boost air temperature coming from the turbo pre IC.

I would think that there would be more value in wrapping the CAI and cold side tubing from the FMIC to the TB.

I am actually planning on getting an anemometer and a few thermocouples to 1) map airflow across the motor and 2) monitor the offset between boost air temp and ambient engine temp. This would definitely answer whether to wrap or not wrap the hot side.

Your car's sleeper status has been revoked. Plan to be challenged by pretty much everyone on the road that catches a glimpse of your car's front from here on out. The grille delete actually likes kind of EVOish to me and I like it.

I can 100% appreciate your attention to detail. I think we just need a little data collection to work out some of the final FMIC optimizations.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

I am actually right there with you, but im testing the wrap in several places, hot side, cold side, and exhaust to see which has the greatest impact. Im guessing on the exhaust mani will be the best but if you dont start in the easiest places you will never have data to compare lol. I am also looking into a heat sink type element to add to the hot side, here are a few ideas i had seen....

Pre-Intercooler Cooling Pipe

even considered this....

Barrel Water to Air Intercoolers

one of my other ideas was to seal the pipes inside of an air tube and have air rushing through the tube to carry the hot outside dissipated air away.

I personally feel the best method is to have heat sink fins welded on the pipe. And also proper venting and ducting around the exhaust mani area.

Once i get the cold side welded to be one solid pipe ill move the wrap to that area next and collect data there as well. SOP dyno no increase in hp so far with the wrap on the hot side, although i still expect the internal air temps to be less then the ambient temps surrounding the pipes, but only time and data will prove either way Im very excited to cross reference our findings! Its important to dive into these small details to then test extremes to see where improvements can be made! Appreciate your feedback!!!

[Mistersix]

I think the air flowing up under the hood probably cools that top pipe pretty good. Protecting the cold side of the intercooler seems like the best idea really. This was one of the main reasons i used long silicone couplers near the radiator and over the engine. Silicone conducts far less heat than metal and allows several flex points for the motor to move independently of the FMIC.

Not sure how i feel about the new bumper look you got. Its definitley different, which is cool. Really depends on how flush and flat that mesh sits. And your bumper is eff'd up which doesn't help.

Whats up with the big chunk missing in the middle?

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

the chunk was a piece that was damaged in the accident so i just cut it out working with it the best i can. The mesh sits flush and clean now. Still could do some finishing on it but not really my concern. I think it looks good as is so ill probably let it be for a while and then come back to really clean it up later. Im very impressed with the way it came out and clearing out all that crap up there allows so much more air flow and now room for my next project

I do like the silicone being used but so much more $$$ Honestly once I get the pipes welded up and solid I will wrap the cold side in heat reflective tape, and leave the top pipe bare metal and let my vents and scoops do the work. But you never know until you test the different options for yourself

One thing is for sure the car has never been happier, sounded better, and ran stronger! and I plan on improving the setup yet again by using the v mount style IC in the near future in conjunction with a top mount turbo setup. at most 2 bends on the hot side, a 75 deg and a 45 deg, and then 3 bends on the cold side still not clear of exactly that routing yet. Nearly half the piping length i have now as well as double the size intercooler. Big plans in the future for sure. cant wait!!!! But until then I am thoroughly enjoying this setup. But again if your seeing more then stock lag, you need to go to 2.25 piping and reduce the amount of harsh bends!

[Mistersix]

I notice the lag when i do Wot logs that start at 2.5k

takes way longer to spool than it used to. But when i drive the car as i would spirited, i can't feel any more lag than before. But there's proof in the numbers when looking at my logs. So there probably is more lag in general, but its hard to feel 100-200 rpms difference.

No matters because as you stated, the car is way happier than before. It runs way better, pulls harder and has allowed me headroom for timing which has shown big increases on VD.

[Nathan 6]

Really appreciate all the R&D you did for this setup ESB.

Will definitely be following this closely for my setup.

Most people just slap on a crappy core+universal pipes with minimal cutting and testing, where as you took the time to figure the best route out with the best bends possible for a k04 setup.

Thanks

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

thank you! the next setup im working on is 2.25 hot side / 2.75 cold side with a blow through maf since im now currently running blow through and love it!

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

Just an update. Very happy with the kit. Seeing BATS anywhere from 3 to 15 degrees above ambient depending on the situation but overall amazing performance and LOVE the lack of heat soak, its what really makes the difference if you do a lot of city driving but can also see a slight performance increase due to the colder air charge. At this point with the blow through setup a little tooooo much performance but im in the process of dialing her in.

[dale_gribble]

When you say 3 to 15 degrees above ambient, do you mean above outside air temps or above iat temps? I assume the latter?

[2.3speed06]

I want to do this do bad!! But I don't wanna cut the shit out of my car lol

[TiGraySpeed6]

must mean ambient as in outside air temp since he's gone blow-thru & his IAT/MAF is post turbo / just by the throttle body

[weakdog85]

yea, outside temp. we're working on something to get the right MAF reading so he can stay stock tuned for now.

[redmnsterut]

Originally Posted by Nathan 6 Really appreciate all the R&D you did for this setup ESB. Will definitely be following this closely for my setup. Most people just slap on a crappy core+universal pipes with minimal cutting and testing, where as you took the time to figure the best route out with the best bends possible for a k04 setup. Thanks

Thank you sir, you consumed 5 minutes of my day while I watched the gif in your sig over and over lol

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

Originally Posted by redmnsterut Thank you sir, you consumed 5 minutes of my day while I watched the gif in your sig over and over lol

hahahahahaha!

yes thats above amb temp right now. Even though my pre TB temps are very close to my intake temps when the sensor was pre turbo. Mainly because i had a CAI and that pulls very low temps. But I feel the pressure and air density is changing now that im in blow through so maybe if i put a standalone temp sensor back in the intake the air density will be the same as prior blow through and will help cool down my rich afr problems.....well its only a problem because I cant tune for it, and its causing load cut and over boosting at WOT. Check out this thread as well...... im so close.....just need some pointers......

MAF wiring diagram

going to try to run the standalone temp sensor this weekend.

everyones .02 is welcome


also considering the o2 diode trick to get leaner afr and possibly a inline resistor to the ait sensor in the maf.... thoughts? concerns?

[chuckms6]

Originally Posted by ESB Jiu JItsu hahahahahaha! yes thats above amb temp right now. Even though my pre TB temps are very close to my intake temps when the sensor was pre turbo. Mainly because i had a CAI and that pulls very low temps. But I feel the pressure and air density is changing now that im in blow through so maybe if i put a standalone temp sensor back in the intake the air density will be the same as prior blow through and will help cool down my rich afr problems.....well its only a problem because I cant tune for it, and its causing load cut and over boosting at WOT. Check out this thread as well...... im so close.....just need some pointers...... MAF wiring diagram going to try to run the standalone temp sensor this weekend. everyones .02 is welcome also considering the o2 diode trick to get leaner afr and possibly a inline resistor to the ait sensor in the maf.... thoughts? concerns?

Please just get an AP...please...

Tapatalking

[TiGraySpeed6]

ya know, gotta give him credit tho- he's able to, and does, log with a borrowed AP, has and logs with Torque (fwiw), he has the benefit of several more critical years of tuning development to draw from.

Once upon a time folk "tuned" this way without the benefit of all this extra stuff.

would he be better off with an AP? yuuuuuup.
does he know an AP is a force multiplier? yuuuuuuuup.

since it's his car & not mine I'm happy to watch him push the limits of the factory tune.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

Originally Posted by TiGraySpeed6 ya know, gotta give him credit tho- he's able to, and does, log with a borrowed AP, has and logs with Torque (fwiw), he has the benefit of several more critical years of tuning development to draw from. Once upon a time folk "tuned" this way without the benefit of all this extra stuff. would he be better off with an AP? yuuuuuup. does he know an AP is a force multiplier? yuuuuuuuup. since it's his car & not mine I'm happy to watch him push the limits of the factory tune.

THANK YOU!!!! its not like im not posting results and my path.... I just want to try different avenues. Im not a know it all but im not a dumbass either, just looking for help and pointers along the way Ill get an AP someday but until them.... you can find me pushing the limits! But thank you for understanding. Im going to start an AP fund lol i promise....even poen to donation hahahaha!

[weakdog85]

I knew there were some supporters out there.

[chuckms6]

Originally Posted by TiGraySpeed6 ya know, gotta give him credit tho- he's able to, and does, log with a borrowed AP, has and logs with Torque (fwiw), he has the benefit of several more critical years of tuning development to draw from. Once upon a time folk "tuned" this way without the benefit of all this extra stuff. would he be better off with an AP? yuuuuuup. does he know an AP is a force multiplier? yuuuuuuuup. since it's his car & not mine I'm happy to watch him push the limits of the factory tune.

very good point

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

If it works we all gain right....and if i fail.....then I "fail" so I just dont see why people wouldnt want to help even if i do "fail" but im one of those crazy positive people that does not believe in failure soooooooo I have nothing to loose except a lot of money I dont have lol hahahahaha. So please guys if you have any helpful in put of how i can help the car lean out a bit manually not via tune i really appreciate the help. Still trying to get the blow through working at WOT

[TiGraySpeed6]

BOV + 28x7x2.5 Intercooler + 2.25" Turbo Piping Kit | eBay
BLACK 2" To 2.25" 45 DEGREE TURBO SILICONE ELBOW REDUCER HOSE 5 | eBay
2.25" - 2.75" 57mm to 70mm Silicone Reducer Hose Black | eBay


So, if I followed this to the final version correctly the parts list is one each of the above three items, specifying 1-90* & 1-45* coupler instead of the default 2-90* elbows.


The basic fmic kit has what's needed, noting the optional 45*. The second link is for the turbo to initial bit of ic piping ended up as a 45, not a 90 (2 to 2.25 45*). The third link is the throttle body connection.

That just leaves a random bit of tubing to connect the BPV recirc.....

I've got vac tubing & both sawzall & jigsaw for the crash bar trimming...

Anything I'm missing?

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

looks perfect to me. Its very easy to lay out and there are about 100 combos to choose from. I happen to believe my routing is the most efficient but thats just based of my research GOOD LUCK! you will be very happy with the quality of the cx racing stuff....but be carefull with the clamps.....dont over tighten or angle your wrench....they are a bit cheep but will work just fine!

[TiGraySpeed6]

pulled the trigger this morning...

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

thats sooooooo $%^&ing awesome man!!! I love the FMIC setup. No extra lag, plenty of extra power. You can be the judge.....everyone else says i have to feel extra lag but honestly i dont so please let me know your experience! I think you will be extremely happy with the cooling you will see....those bats just plummet! my advice when you go to install is mock everything up and set the bumper on and tweek as you need to for the least amount of trimming of any parts. Honestly depending on the performance vs modification to your car there are many different ways to route the kit even with just what you will have. ENJOY@!


and you have an AP!!! lol so jealous! please let me know the hp increase you see

[2.3speed06]

So when can I come up and you can help me with my custom FMIC lol!!!

[TiGraySpeed6]

hell, ESB has been deeper into the science of the FMIC than the average manufacturer.

Enough so that I bought into his science oriented kool-aid & bought my own...

[dale_gribble]

I have been working on my FMIC for a while now. This is my experience:

The FMIC is not a 100% up front win after my experience with the FMIC. I would even be reluctant to recommend an FMIC to someone that was looking for a simple bolt-on upgrade. Imma take a step back and then explain how I arrived here. This isn't addressed to @TiGraySpeed6 because I know he is more than capable of this. This is more to give someone considering an FMIC a different perspective.

Firstly, Mazda engineers are smart; they researched the airflow, heat rise, temperatures, efficiencies across the radiator and the stock TMIC exhaustively. They make sure that optimum amounts of air are flowing into the radiator and TMIC for the largest amount of operating conditions. How can someone buying an off the shelf kit made of chinese manufactured non-spec parts assume that they can beat what the engineers created by bolting some pipes and an intercooler up in front of the radiator? It doesn't come this easy folks. As a matter of fact I have contemplated throwing my stock TMIC back on and calling it good after wrestling the FMIC for a while.

The FMIC solves 1 problem upfront but that solution comes at a cost. The FMIC solves heat soak. Heat soak is the point that the engine has reached thermal equilibrium; maybe after idling in traffic for a while on a hot day. Everything is evenly heated to include the TMIC. In this state, the stock TMIC does not easily shed heat and lower boost air temperatures. It takes a long while with a good deal of air flow across the TMIC to start lowering boost temps again.

Because the FMIC is located at the front of the car and outside the engine compartment, it is not subject to the higher ambient temperatures that the TMIC is subjected to. As a result, the FMIC can pretty much always shed BATs faster than a TMIC, even after the engine has been heat soaked. I can 100% state this to be true. I have seen this firsthand.

Now, consider a few things. Each coupler of the FMIC reduces reliability and offers another failure point. This issue is made worse because a few of those junctions will only ever be available when the front bumper is off. If you have an FMIC, you will probably become pretty comfortable in removing your front bumper. I have found after much trial and error that it is best to have the hose clamp directly after the raised humps of the tubing. Make sure the hose clamp gets a straight shot onto the tube and slowly tighten the clamp down.

We sacrifice a TON of cool airflow across the radiator for the FMIC. I saw my ECTs go up on average 15-20 degrees or so in traffic and on the highway because of this. Higher ECTs = higher engine temps = higher BATs. Even though my BATs dropped faster with an FMIC, my average BATs were equal to or higher than with TMIC BATs when cruising on the highway or during WOT runs. I have a bunch of runs to support this. Further, I am convinced that just bolting an FMIC kit up offers worse performance than a TMIC in most conditions when not making extra considerations during the install.

After working with my FMIC in the way that @ESB Jiu JItsu has, we start to see the benefits of an FMIC. Those benefits come after we found ways to restore airflow to the radiator and work around the intricacies of the FMIC installation. OP had to cut a hole in his hood and take his front grille off. I have done less dramatic things because I want to keep sleeper status, but I have had to figure out how to get more airflow into the radiator.

In short: Don't just get an FMIC on a regular bolted car and expect performance gains. It isn't worth it. Stick with the TMIC or if you really feel you need an FMIC, be prepared to do extra work to return some of the efficiencies you lost installing the thing.

I am getting ready to post more info up on my last round of changes to get more air into the radiatior and get my coolant temps back down. I will post findings here when I am done.

[TiGraySpeed6]

if all that was directed at me, you're preaching to the choir. It's all good, well thought out info and stuff, but nothing new. It's the same coolant temp -vs- BAT business folks have debated for years.

$200 is fair to see how it behaves for me