Pill size and Acuator Spring Pressure

[hnda etr]

Oh, and did I mention....

Originally Posted by hnda etr Feels like another vendor ban coming up... Just sayin'...

[Haltech]

Well, ill send him a PM.. You also should make a specific thread that calls him out by name.. All it takes is one bad reputation mark to start digging into business.

You know how it works here guys. This isnt high school and its certainly not, lets protect the vendor that pays rent who fucks a customer over. Its not tolerated and if anything, he should offer a refund immediately and flash you back to stock.

[hnda etr]

Originally Posted by Haltech Well, ill send him a PM.. You also should make a specific thread that calls him out by name.. All it takes is one bad reputation mark to start digging into business. You know how it works here guys. This isnt high school and its certainly not, lets protect the vendor that pays rent who fucks a customer over. Its not tolerated and if anything, he should offer a refund immediately and flash you back to stock.

^^^ Word!!

[smitty5788]

He has until tomorrow morning, If i get to work and havent heard from him Im making a thread.

[smitty5788]

Got a PM from John this morning, his flash cable is out right now but I think I will be going the route of the stock flash and a refund. Ill take the money and get an AP.

[JTMS3]

Originally Posted by smitty5788 Got a PM from John this morning, his flash cable is out right now but I think I will be going the route of the stock flash and a refund. Ill take the money and get an AP.

That is the same text I got from him last night at 10:34 PM. He said he "should" have a tracking # today for the cable. IMO... it shouldn't take this long to get a solid update, I have been getting the same response..... Don't have the cable yet.. sorry. If I told my customers this when I selling them IT equipment I wouldn't have a client base, especially if all my other potential customers can see exactly what's going on through a forum. My faith in John fixing my tune is fading and my hunger for a refund is building..... Restore my faith SIR.

Not to mention, I have asked him repeatedly what all he is sending me to log and re-flash and I can't even get an answer to that question either.

[Amazon]

What was so hard and took so long for him to give smitty a simple explanation like that?

[smitty5788]

IMO, we should have been taken car of first, he came to tune the cars and it didnt come out right, he admitted that to both of us as far as i know. We should be first in line to get the cable.

As long as I get my refund and can flash to stock before the AP comes out Ill be happy. I better not have to wait with an AP sitting here to be flashed back.

Originally Posted by Amazon What was so hard and took so long for him to give smitty a simple explanation like that?

It was pressure from a number of people on here ... thanks to those people BTW and those that understood where I was coming from. Hopefully some people can learn from this.

[JTMS3]

Originally Posted by smitty5788 IMO, we should have been taken car of first, he came to tune the cars and it didnt come out right, he admitted that to both of us as far as i know. We should be first in line to get the cable. As long as I get my refund and can flash to stock before the AP comes out Ill be happy. I better not have to wait with an AP sitting here to be flashed back. It was pressure from a number of people on here ... thanks to those people BTW and those that understood where I was coming from. Hopefully some people can learn from this.

Has John even offered to flash back to stock? When I asked him, he said I wouldn't have the option to flash back to stock. Excuse my noobness but will we be able to flash back to stock when the AP comes out or am I still pretty much relying on John to take care of me in the end?????

[smitty5788]

he has stock maps he can use, he told me he will send me the stuff all you need is a windows computer

[9900rpm]

Wow, just got to reading this thread.

smitty, where do you live, and has the weather changed drastically since you were tuned? By drastic, I would say, by 20 to 30 degrees? I know that these cars are pretty sensitive to weather changes, as are most turbo cars. Also, when you raise boost, with the stock boost control solenoid, it's not like how it is from the factory. The solenoid does a good job when you are running stock boost. When you start upping it, you are pushing the physical limitations of it. Know that. Also, fucking with the throttle plate/limitations does affect boost.

I do agree that if your car was gonna have problems, and that John knew, he should tell you, and you should have decided then on what you wanted to do. I do agree with you that if you paid John to do a job, he should take care of you afterwards. He does take care of his customers, me being one of them, along with many others that will have good things to say about him. On the flipside of the coin, what he's asking you to do (drilling the thing out) isn't the end of the world. With the 10 days or so of bitching and moaning, you could have drilled out a thousand of those pills, with less effort than typing all you've typed. Don't get me wrong though, because I really do see where you're coming from. You're a paying customer, and you should get what U paid for. Just playing devil's advocate. Like, if I bought a new car, and the rear wing rattles, I can bring my shit back to the dealership and they will fix it...... OR, I can just fix it myself with 30 minutes of my life.

My 2 cents. Whatever happens at the end, I hope you guys can agree on something that both of you are OK with. Good luck man!

P.S. 22psi isn't too much. Believe me on that!

[superskaterxes]

another one bites the dust.......

[jhershorin]

Drilling out the pill is NOT necessary though. Yes it will work - but with more effort and knowledge so will tuning the car.

[smitty5788]

Originally Posted by 9900rpm Wow, just got to reading this thread. P.S. 22psi isn't too much. Believe me on that!

It is when its uncontrolled ... as Jake said above it can be tuned ... bottom line and now this is more about the lack of customer service, i have spent countless hours on the car, its not about the time it would have taken.

[FreeFlyFreak]

No word from John since the 3rd.
For John to be aware of this thread and not post for that long...........

Not good.

Every time I have seen this from a vendor on any forum it has ended in trouble.

Want business = responsive
+
Problem needs addressed = unresponsive
=
Not in business long.

You cannot stick your head in the sand John.
Well you can.....................
but it doesn't make the problem go away.
It just means you lose business, while you pretend everything is OK

It is time to address this problem head on, in public, or I'll say......

In before BAN

[smitty5788]

He got back to me Thursday, said I could get my refund and a stock flash. Haven't heard back yet and no refund yet.

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by smitty5788 He got back to me Thursday, said I could get my refund and a stock flash. Haven't heard back yet and no refund yet.

OK, that is something. Glad there is some progress.

But the problem is, when there is public discussion about a problem, he needs to post the solution..... solution or not it is gonna have to come out anyway, so why not nip it in the bud.
bad rap is good for nobody.

And if PG can get kicked off MSF for bad customer service, then anyone can get kicked off for ignoring CS problems.

[smitty5788]

well he is on now, he should have mp PMs with my PayPal info and asking when I can get the cable.

[mghtymouse380]

Smitty just read through all of this and it makes me not want to get a tune from John like I have been talking about. There is one thing I hate and it is bad customer service. Let us know what is going on with your situation.

[9900rpm]

Originally Posted by smitty5788 It is when its uncontrolled ... as Jake said above it can be tuned ... bottom line and now this is more about the lack of customer service, i have spent countless hours on the car, its not about the time it would have taken.

I spoke to a guy that tuned my Evo 8 when I was on stock turbo. They too have a turbo set up the same way (with the boost pill). It is common practice to switch pills for boost control. Has to do with the mechanical limitations of the hardware, not the tune. To tune a car to reduce boost that has hit it's mechanical limitation would require an artificial restriction, such as limiting the throttle plate opening as boost ramps up, which would effectively reduce exhaust flow into the turbo, which would directly influence how quickly you build boost, which can then give time to your mechanical limitations to catch up to itself. Will this work, yes. Is this the correct way to fix it, no. It's a gay ass band aid fix that will make your car not spike, but you will lose power compared to fixing it the right way.

Bottom line is, and my other tuner confirmed this, that when there is boost control issues like what you are getting, especially on small turbo cars, the correct way to fix this is with switching out or drilling out the boost pill. You will be fixing the problem at the cause of the problem, not working around it. IMHO, you should just stop whining and fix it. It's really not much to do, and is the correct way to do it, and I see that John did also say this is the way to go. It's such a simple fix and you want to bitch and moan about it.

Your other options are to have him flash back to stock, which is all good and well, but then what? You will be back to stock, and I can tell you, with winter here, with the mods you have, untuned, you will hit boost cut, daily, then blow the fuck up. Say you get a Cobb AP later on, what are you gonna do? You can get tuned again, and will run into the same shit. Yes you can tune it out, but again, that's the bullshitass way of doing it, and you're not extracting maximum power.

On a side note, I was up at The Shop in Thursday, to pick up some more VP M1 and to try to get a retune, because I upped the nozzle for the meth. they could not squeeze me in because they were slammed. A GTR was on the dyno, with a Civic waiting behind it, an Evo and 2 STI's. It was pretty hectic. They were real busy up there. Couldn't squeeze me in.

[SilverDemon]

Did you drill out your boost pill?

EDIT: Let me re-phrase the question....What are you doing for boost control?

[Amazon]

Regardless of whether or not the problem is fixable by drilling out the pill is irrelevant I feel. Several people on here agree that a knowledgeable tuner can tune around this issue. For a $600 flash, I'd hope the tune was good enough for me not to have to start drilling a part on my vehicle to make it safe.

John may be busy, but that's no excuse for ignoring a customer, that's just bad business. In the business I run, if someone is dissatisfied with the services they received, they get a refund or the service redone again if they'd prefer. This is how you must run a business if you want your customers to come back to you.

[jhershorin]

I smell the beginning of the end.

[smitty5788]

Originally Posted by 9900rpm I spoke to a guy that tuned my Evo 8 when I was on stock turbo. They too have a turbo set up the same way (with the boost pill). It is common practice to switch pills for boost control. Has to do with the mechanical limitations of the hardware, not the tune. To tune a car to reduce boost that has hit it's mechanical limitation would require an artificial restriction, such as limiting the throttle plate opening as boost ramps up, which would effectively reduce exhaust flow into the turbo, which would directly influence how quickly you build boost, which can then give time to your mechanical limitations to catch up to itself. Will this work, yes. Is this the correct way to fix it, no. It's a gay ass band aid fix that will make your car not spike, but you will lose power compared to fixing it the right way. Bottom line is, and my other tuner confirmed this, that when there is boost control issues like what you are getting, especially on small turbo cars, the correct way to fix this is with switching out or drilling out the boost pill. You will be fixing the problem at the cause of the problem, not working around it. IMHO, you should just stop whining and fix it. It's really not much to do, and is the correct way to do it, and I see that John did also say this is the way to go. It's such a simple fix and you want to bitch and moan about it. Your other options are to have him flash back to stock, which is all good and well, but then what? You will be back to stock, and I can tell you, with winter here, with the mods you have, untuned, you will hit boost cut, daily, then blow the fuck up. Say you get a Cobb AP later on, what are you gonna do? You can get tuned again, and will run into the same shit. Yes you can tune it out, but again, that's the bullshitass way of doing it, and you're not extracting maximum power. On a side note, I was up at The Shop in Thursday, to pick up some more VP M1 and to try to get a retune, because I upped the nozzle for the meth. they could not squeeze me in because they were slammed. A GTR was on the dyno, with a Civic waiting behind it, an Evo and 2 STI's. It was pretty hectic. They were real busy up there. Couldn't squeeze me in.

Dont tell me what I will have and this and that ... I'm aware of the boost cut Ill get and everything... had it, been there ... your about a week late and a dollar short ... sorry to be an ass man but I'm done discussing what is right or easy to do. This isn't a fucking evo or subaru where the pill is a simple swap. Why dont you search the phrase boost pill and see how common it is on a MS platform.

It can be tuned out, I have been told this by many people including other tuners and vendors, thats the bottom line ... I'm glad you had a good experience, I didn't so people need to know and regardless of his tuning ability this service is garbage ... now carry on.


On another note, Im still waiting on John ... Imagine that.

[DSIT995]

Smitty, let say that you did drill the pill out, use his tune and its all good....... BUT later on down the road, u want to stock out or go back to the stock tune, your still stuck with a turbo with the pill drilled out. U might be able to add another pill in the vac line, but still thats not the way to go about it

If I was in your shoes, I wouldnt drill out the pill either. I keep all my stock oem parts unmolested/hacked up. Just in case I ever have to go back to stock

[smitty5788]

Originally Posted by DSIT995 Smitty, let say that you did drill the pill out, use his tune and its all good....... BUT later on down the road, u want to stock out or go back to the stock tune, your still stuck with a turbo with the pill drilled out. U might be able to add another pill in the vac line, but still thats not the way to go about it If I was in your shoes, I wouldn't drill out the pill either. I keep all my stock oem parts unmolested/hacked up. Just in case I ever have to go back to stock

This is exactly right also ... Its about this and the service which is a result of his lack of ability. Its not a common thing to do on the MS platform thats the bottom line I dont have to drill the fucking pill for this to work.

Now lets go John, give me a response. You have my PayPal info when am I getting my refund and when is the cable ready? This is getting fucking ridiculous ... man up for once and give some answers.

[smitty5788]

your on right now ... lets fucking go John ... I mean come on what if I needed to go to the dealer for something ... I have to wait a fucking month for you to respond?

I just PMed you I expect a response tonight ... If I don't get one this is going outside this forum.

[9900rpm]

Originally Posted by SilverDemon Did you drill out your boost pill? EDIT: Let me re-phrase the question....What are you doing for boost control?

If that question was directed to me, I am running on the stock boost solenoid, and it hasn't given me problems. I believe that my setup (before meth), is a similar setup to smitty's, but he doesn't have the FMIC. FMIC has piping, which slows down boost response, which may explain why I don't spike, while he does.

Originally Posted by Amazon Regardless of whether or not the problem is fixable by drilling out the pill is irrelevant I feel. Several people on here agree that a knowledgeable tuner can tune around this issue. For a $600 flash, I'd hope the tune was good enough for me not to have to start drilling a part on my vehicle to make it safe. John may be busy, but that's no excuse for ignoring a customer, that's just bad business. In the business I run, if someone is dissatisfied with the services they received, they get a refund or the service redone again if they'd prefer. This is how you must run a business if you want your customers to come back to you.

What is the OP trying to accomplish here? If he wants his car to run right, he can swap or drill out the pill. If he is unwilling to do anything and demand his money back or John to fix the tune, I can understand that, but it will not help his car make power at max potential. Isn't that why smitty got his car tuned anyway, so it can make the power that it should? Amazon, do you have John's flash, and is your car over boosting? Yes, a tuner can tune "around" this issue. Let me ask you (and smitty) this: Do you really want your issues to be tuned "around"? That would be a gay ass band aid fix. Is this something you really want? I know you guys don't agree with me on issues, but think neutrally on this. The issue can be fixed the proper way, or you can work around it.

Originally Posted by smitty5788 Dont tell me what I will have and this and that ... I'm aware of the boost cut Ill get and everything... had it, been there ... your about a week late and a dollar short ... sorry to be an ass man but I'm done discussing what is right or easy to do. This isn't a fucking evo or subaru where the pill is a simple swap. Why dont you search the phrase boost pill and see how common it is on a MS platform. It can be tuned out, I have been told this by many people including other tuners and vendors, thats the bottom line ... I'm glad you had a good experience, I didn't so people need to know and regardless of his tuning ability this service is garbage ... now carry on. On another note, Im still waiting on John ... Imagine that.

Hey man, I am just trying to tell you what can be done to make your car run the way it should. Swapping a pill on this will take you more than 5 minutes, but it's not a 2 day job or anything. You didn't answer my question. What are you going to do after you are flashed back to stock? Drive around with boost cut till the Cobb AP comes out, and have that tuned "around" your issues? "Tuning it out" and not drilling/swapping the pill may be protocol on this platform, but doing it right will extract max power. This is your car, do what you like. Doing this band aid fix IMHO is gay as hell. ex: instead of getting a wheel alignment, just put more air in the tire of the side it pulls to. That may "fix" the problem, but it's a half assed shitty way to do it.

I do agree with you that John should remedy this problem. Seems like you are unwilling to drill/swap your pill, so yeah, I do think he should help you flash back to stock and get your money back. At this point, it doesn't look like John can make you happy any other way. I will throw a message his way to try to get the ball rollin. Good luck with all of this.

[SilverDemon]

The original post was started because this is what Jonh wanted us to do. We tested everything exactly the way John wanted us to.Having a front mount does not help with boost spikes......at all.All of the front mounts I have seen have less pressure drop than the OEM.
I am glad you have had a good results out of John....but I will say that smitty's tune for boost is way out of line and John has been side stepping the point of an unhappy customer for way too fucking long.....I, for one , would have not been as patient as smitty has been.

[FORZDA 1]

Whereas the pill-drill is certainly the next step in a solution to (re)gain adequate boost control IF the OEM pill is too small to allow proper tuning with the available boost control tables (not throttle close), I haven't seen any data logs (yet) that indicate that is the case here. All I've seen is bickering where the tuner (apparently) did what he thought was right based on his experience tuning other cars. The question is whether that experience (valid as it is) MUST apply to this situation. IS the mechanical system (specificaly the pill hole size) where the issue lies?

IF the boost can be brought down to the desired level under power with turbo spooled, then the pill is NOT the problem. The WGDC and Boost Dynamics value IS the problem.

This type of problem occurs when the tuner, experinced though they may be, will NOT take the time (because time is $$$) to tune the car properly with the available CORRECT software tables and INSISTS that THEIR method (pill-drill) is the ONLY valid way to satisfy the customer.

Apparently(?) the tuner sees no way out that will allow them to retain their ego and $$$. Oh well, such is business...

[SilverDemon]

I was fully bolted except the exhaust manifold and big turbo.....and zereo problems controling boost. Everything that we tested was against my setup....Just a different tuning solution and tuner...

[JTMS3]

Also, let's not forget this isn't just Smitty's issue. I am having the same issues as well and considering its cold as fuck where I live I have to baby the shit out of my car to make sure nothing bad happens. Considering this is my DD I should not have to wait a month to get a cable for him to fix a tune that he did and ran out on me for. Now I am sure John will say and I will confirm the MS CAI I had installed was not tighted down to the TIP (I didn't install it) and since I have replaced it with the Cobb SRI the CEL is gone. But I am getting -200 miles on a full tank of gas. I have spike an boost cut issues, is that not the tune? I don't claim to know everything about the setup of these cars but that is why I paid someone $600 because they claimed they did. Surely there isn't something wrong with the SRI too, but still I wait just like Smitty to get this resolved. I texted John this morning... he tells me he is on the phone with 3 people and will call me right back..... NOTHING!!!!! Is this really something that a paying customer should have to deal with? Am I going to have to go back to the dealer just to get my ECU back to the stock map so I know my car won't blow up? I guess so........

[jhershorin]

Ughh...seriously still going? What I would do to meet John in person and have a conversation where he can't act like a bitch hiding behind a computer screen. I said it from day 1 - he may be an experienced tuner - but fail will follow him on the ms3 because he tried to act like he already knew everything. Now he's odd looking and has a bad rep here. If you need coke though I hear the shopct has some good family ties haha

Smitty - keep us posted.

Scott - let me know what comes of the convo we discussed the other day.

Other guy with similar probs - good luck too.

[smitty5788]

Ok, Im going to respond in general terms to everyone that commented.

I fully believe that this problem can be avoided by tuning the car correctly, not some band-aid fix. As silver said, he was fully bolted and had zero issues with boost control.

I wish I could post a log with WGDC but I cant log it yet ... fuck Mazda i guess on that one. If I could see everything then maybe the issue would be more obvious but it isnt the pill. Mine is no different than every other bolted MS3 and Im not even there yet.

I have been told by plenty of people, "tuners" included who think it can be tuned with the proper knowledge and time. Thats it, it can be done, not some bandaid fix. Nothing on my car is half assed and never will be, thats not what Im looking for and thats not how I do shit.

All that being said, John finally replied again. He said he expected his cable the end of last week and is still waiting for it. I should be next to get it and will get my refund once he gets the cable back. We will see if that actually happens or not.

[jhershorin]

Coke habits are hard to support. lol

Good lock smitty...stall tactics are stalling...but hopefully he stops being a bitch

[FreeFlyFreak]

sniff sniff....

[cpolly69]

well now we know where he's tuning.....

[9900rpm]

Originally Posted by smitty5788 Ok, Im going to respond in general terms to everyone that commented. I fully believe that this problem can be avoided by tuning the car correctly, not some band-aid fix. As silver said, he was fully bolted and had zero issues with boost control. I wish I could post a log with WGDC but I cant log it yet ... fuck Mazda i guess on that one. If I could see everything then maybe the issue would be more obvious but it isnt the pill. Mine is no different than every other bolted MS3 and Im not even there yet. I have been told by plenty of people, "tuners" included who think it can be tuned with the proper knowledge and time. Thats it, it can be done, not some bandaid fix. Nothing on my car is half assed and never will be, thats not what Im looking for and thats not how I do shit. All that being said, John finally replied again. He said he expected his cable the end of last week and is still waiting for it. I should be next to get it and will get my refund once he gets the cable back. We will see if that actually happens or not.

Hey, good that he finally replied to you. With the cable he is sending you, will you be able to log the WGDC? Does John have a log of your WGDC on the tune that your car is running right now?

Not to stir shit up, but ask these tuners how they would go about in tuning out these spikes, like yours.

I wanna see you go fast. Hell, I wanna see every MS3 go fast. If there's some magical way of tuning spikes away without closing throttle or making the car lazy (without swapping/drilling the pill), by all means, do it. Not every car is the same, and there are many, many outside factors that are not constant, so I can see different cars of the same type reacting differently.

Anyway, keep us posted on what happens.

[smitty5788]

He has logs, good luck getting him to let anyone see them.

[triphop631]

WOW...I was considering using him before I just read all this.

I am sorry to hear you are having this many issues and hopefully you and the others get it resolved.

Good Luck!