2012 Focus Aluminum Lower Control Arms...adaptable to the MS3?

[Nliiitend1]

2012 Ford Focus Titanium: Suspension Walkaround







Might be good for some unsprung weight savings.

...and depending on their geometry, who knows? Maybe it might be a way to get a little more camber??

Seeing that article got me thinking about it anyway.

It'll be interesting to find out the similarities/differences in the balljoints, since that is probably going to be the sticking point for compatibility (assuming the inboard mounting is compatible, which is also at this point unconfirmed).

[Todd98SE]

Check out the Whiteline Plus website. It lists most of the MPS bushings as the same part number as the Focus bushings. Assuming nothing changed for 2012 these might be a great find.

Whiteline
Whiteline

Find me the Ford part number and I will buy one to compare.

[gtlaw]

if those are interchangeable I might have to rent a focus for a weekend

[tigermack]

Damn, that'd be awesome if it fits...

[TRex]

do they not make front camber arms for our car?

[Nliiitend1]

Originally Posted by TRex do they not make front camber arms for our car?

Whose "they?" Lol

...seriously though - Not at the moment, but there are some things in the works:

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...ol-arms-71991/

[trdsw]

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1 Whose "they?" Lol ...seriously though - Not at the moment, but there are some things in the works: http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...ol-arms-71991/

Im very impressed with this guys quality of products any idea whta he made for this ms3

[Ziggo]

Tri-point makes a slick set of adjustable LCAs or our car. Be prepared to pay though, they want $1200 for em.

[Todd98SE]

Originally Posted by Ziggo Tri-point makes a slick set of adjustable LCAs or our car. Be prepared to pay though, they want $1200 for em.

Link?

Thanks,

[Nliiitend1]

Originally Posted by Ziggo Tri-point makes a slick set of adjustable LCAs or our car. Be prepared to pay though, they want $1200 for em.

I've never seen them on their site either...are they special-order only or something??

That is indeed pretty steep, but I'll reserve judgement at least until I see some pictures...

The guy I've been talking to about fabricating some sells his Focus arms for $375/pair (though I don't yet know for sure if that includes bushings/balljoints or if that is for the arms only)...

[Ziggo]

Originally Posted by Todd98SE Link? Thanks,

They are not on their website. I spoke to them in person about it at Redline Buttonwillow last season after asking Ken Dobson about how his USTCC mazdaspeed 3 was running what looked like 4 deg of negative camber up front.

If you are interested give them a call.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by Ziggo They are not on their website. I spoke to them in person about it at Redline Buttonwillow last season after asking Ken Dobson about how his USTCC mazdaspeed 3 was running what looked like 4 deg of negative camber up front. If you are interested give them a call.

:sticks thumb out: "yep! That looks about 4 degrees right there. Lock 'er down."

[Todd98SE]

Sounds interesting but pricey like you said. The solution that Nliiitend1 is working on also sounds good (I just bought the Dominant Engineering toe control links and camber arms for the rear suspension) but I'd much rather adjust the camber with a camber plate than the lower control arm at least on a street car. I have forwarded requests to Ground Control but never received a response. I wonder if one of their universal caster/camber plates could be used with a little creative engineering.

[TRex]

^o man so not only do we not have arms but not even plates? =/

[Nliiitend1]

Kmac makes plates for our cars, but for several reasons I have little interest in using them.

They are only designed to work with the OEM bushing/bearing, and therefore require adapters to run with most coilover kits, which reduces useable travel and/or raises the effective ride-height.

They also tend to bend when torqued as directed, and eventually start making a lot of noise.

It'd really be nice to have some more options.

[Ziggo]

Originally Posted by TRex ^o man so not only do we not have arms but not even plates? =/

KMAC camber plates sorta work, but with mixed results. Nobody that i have seen gets more than -2.5 of camber with them. BC coilovers come with camber plates built into their top-hats which is their one advantage over KWs besides price.

The LCAs would have bumped me out of the enthusiast class so I just sucked it up and tore the outer shoulders of my tires all to hell.

[justint5387]

Originally Posted by Ziggo KMAC camber plates sorta work, but with mixed results. Nobody that i have seen gets more than -2.5 of camber with them. BC coilovers come with camber plates built into their top-hats which is their one advantage over KWs besides price. The LCAs would have bumped me out of the enthusiast class so I just sucked it up and tore the outer shoulders of my tires all to hell.

I have -2.6 on mine. You can always trim it to get more, or lower more for some people.

[Lex]

The suspension architecture of the 2012 focus is identical to ours ... I imagine the ST model will just get better dampers, bars, and the bigger brakes we have or similar.

[Nliiitend1]

The ST they've been showing on the auto show circuit has what looks like body-colored multi-piston ATE front brakes, along with some pretty trick-looking rotors:

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1 The ST they've been showing on the auto show circuit has what looks like body-colored multi-piston ATE front brakes, along with some pretty trick-looking rotors:

That's a pre-production module IIRC. They really don't have much reason to have more braking than we do for 250hp. I'd rather see a Torsen diff and revo knuckle.

EDIT: How do you know those are multi piston?

[Nliiitend1]

Originally Posted by Lex That's a pre-production module IIRC. They really don't have much reason to have more braking than we do for 250hp. I'd rather see a Torsen diff and revo knuckle. EDIT: How do you know those are multi piston?

I don't, which is why I said "looks like."


I'm basing the assumption off of the overall shape of the caliper, which follows that of a typical multi-piston unit. Also, several publications have referred to them as "multi-piston" as well.


...and I know it's pre-production, which is why I referred to it as, "The ST they've been showing on the auto show circuit" and not, "The ST."

While our cars don't need any bigger brakes, we track rats could still certainly benefit from the added heat-handling capabilities and pad wear profile of a multi-piston setup, and I'm sure the ST would benefit in the same way.

[regulator84]

Originally Posted by Lex That's a pre-production module IIRC. They really don't have much reason to have more braking than we do for 250hp. I'd rather see a Torsen diff and revo knuckle. EDIT: How do you know those are multi piston?

When I was at the DC auto show they said they were 6 piston in the front, and 4 piston in the rear.

[tigermack]

People get -2.5 easily on the K-Mac plates. I have -3/-2.9 on mine but I did something to the plates to get that and I am not that low. If I lower it more, I can get more but that'd just make the control arms pointing up instead of level like I do now.

[Nliiitend1]

His rear camber and toe arms will work on the MS3. The front LCAs are not interchangeable though between the Focus and the MS3 like the rear arms though, so that's it for now.

Hopefully there are enough people around here showing interest that this guy decides it'll be worth his while to develop some arms for the MS3 as well.

[Nliiitend1]

I had heard that the rear was just a fancy-looking single-piston unit, which is what it looks like to me in the pictures...

Also, I'd be pretty surprised if those front brakes had any more than 4 pistons in them.

I guess only time will tell what the final production version will get.

[regulator84]

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1 I had heard that the rear was just a fanvy-looking single-piston unit, which is what it looks like to me in the pictures... Also, I'd be pretty surprised if those front brakes had any more than 4 pistons in them. I guess only time will tell what the final production version will get.

I just looked at the pictures I took at the DC show to make sure it was the same model they've been showing everywhere else, and it was, so yes I agree with you on thinking those rears are single-piston.

I asked the people I went with if I had been imagining that they claimed it was 4 in the back, and they also remembered them saying that. Not sure what's up with that, maybe the actors they hired to talk about it just didn't know wtf they were saying.

Wish it hadn't been on that rotating podium so I could have gotten down and dirty checking out the suspension and braking components.

[kwsmithphoto]

The suspension architecture of the 2012 focus is identical to ours ... I imagine the ST model will just get better dampers, bars, and the bigger brakes we have or similar.

Really? Seems odd that they would develop a whole new front suspension and only amortize the cost over a limited production variant that we probably won't ever get in the US.

[Todd98SE]

I just ordered one of these to compare dimensions. The Ford website lists the 2012 Focus front trackwidth at 61.2 inches and the Mazda websites list the MS3 trackwidth at 60.4 inches. I am hoping this translates into a longer control arm which would perfectly address my camber saga with the Corksport camber plates. I guess we really wont know if these are usable until someone tries one, either way if it fits it will be lighter than the MS3 control arm. Fingers crossed.

[Lex]

^ Keep us updated on this development.

[Todd98SE]

Will do.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

[tigermack]

Oh snappp.

[3mazdaspeed]

good luck

[Todd98SE]

Well the LCA came in and my initial measurements says it fits. Bolt pattern and ball joint size are identical. It looks to be about 1/4"-3/8" longer than the OEM MS3 arm which would coincide with the listed trackwidth difference between the 2012 Focus and MS3. I'm not going to install it until I get the drivers side arm but I am confident enough at this point to order the other side. When it comes in and I do the changeover I will get solid measurements of the extra length as well the how much lighter it is than the OEM steel arm. I will be installing the Whiteline Caster bushings that I ordered months ago at the same time.

[Nliiitend1]

Originally Posted by Todd98SE Well the LCA came in and my initial measurements says it fits. Bolt pattern and ball joint size are identical. It looks to be about 1/4"-3/8" longer than the OEM MS3 arm which would coincide with the listed trackwidth difference between the 2012 Focus and MS3. I'm not going to install it until I get the drivers side arm but I am confident enough at this point to order the other side. When it comes in and I do the changeover I will get solid measurements of the extra length as well the how much lighter it is than the OEM steel arm. I will be installing the Whiteline Caster bushings that I ordered months ago at the same time.

So have you compared the shapes of the balljoint shanks as well (aside from measuring their size)?

I'm also interested in at least some sort of qualitative analysis of the difference in bushing material (if at all noticeable)...

I forget, do the Whiteline bushings replace BOTH bushings or just one on each side?

[Todd98SE]

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1 So have you compared the shapes of the balljoint shanks as well (aside from measuring their size)? I'm also interested in at least some sort of qualitative analysis of the difference in bushing material (if at all noticeable)... I forget, do the Whiteline bushings replace BOTH bushings or just one on each side?

Didn't really get a good chance to fully examine the ball joints but I will be sure to take lots of pics and measurements when I do the install. Bushings look identical to the OEM MS3 but I'll know more when everything gets removed.

Whiteline bushing replace both front and rear.

[Tech/Sales@EM]

I did a similar modification to my Audi S4 and lost 4 lbs in the process. on each side of course.

[tigermack]

Sick!

[Chillz]

This looks very interesting and promising, however, I see one good thing and one bad thing not mentioned yet. First, the bad. It appears (from the pictures at top) like the ball is on a lower plane than the arm (simply: the ball is at the centerline of the arm whereas on the Mazda arm it is higher). This means to get the same ride height, the Focus arm will be at an upward angle (from the body to the spindle). This will hurt the roll center, roll center adjuster are made to lengthen the ball joint not shorten it. To make the arm flat, we would have to give up ride height. The good. The ball appears to be at a slight angle away from the wheel. This will improve (not dramatically but a little) the camber curve along with the added camber due to the length.

Looking forward to Todd's updates.

[Nliiitend1]

Originally Posted by Chillz This looks very interesting and promising, however, I see one good thing and one bad thing not mentioned yet. First, the bad. It appears (from the pictures at top) like the ball is on a lower plane than the arm (simply: the ball is at the centerline of the arm whereas on the Mazda arm it is higher). This means to get the same ride height, the Focus arm will be at an upward angle (from the body to the spindle). This will hurt the roll center, roll center adjuster are made to lengthen the ball joint not shorten it. To make the arm flat, we would have to give up ride height. The good. The ball appears to be at a slight angle away from the wheel. This will improve (not dramatically but a little) the camber curve along with the added camber due to the length. Looking forward to Todd's updates.

Actually, your assessment of "the bad" isn't 100% accurate.

The only way to affect roll center at the balljoint is to change the length of the balljoint shank (i.e., to change the distance between the balljoint and the top of the strut).

Simply putting a kink in the control arm doesn't do this. It just changes the "profile" of the lower control arm.

[Todd98SE]

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1 Actually, your assessment of "the bad" isn't 100% accurate. The only way to affect roll center at the balljoint is to change the length of the balljoint shank (i.e., to change the distance between the balljoint and the top of the strut). Simply putting a kink in the control arm doesn't do this. It just changes the "profile" of the lower control arm.

This exactly, thanks Nliiitend1

Also the driver side arm finally shipped!