The Official MS6 Suspension Thread

[phate]

Bilstein does not sell direct to the public, so you buy a set then send them to whoever is doing your revalve.

[cocoanton]

Originally Posted by jcolton My friend just got some KW Variant 3 Coilovers for his genone MS3, and I have to say holy shit they are pretty incredible! I have seen a lot of stuff for the KW Variant 2's for the 06-07 MS6, but was curious if anyone is running the Variant 3's on their speed 6?

There is no v3 for the ms6 as to my knowledge. Wante v3 but had to s"settle" for v2. That was 4 years ago. No regrets!

[KevinK2]

Originally Posted by phate Bilstein does not sell direct to the public, so you buy a set then send them to whoever is doing your revalve.

Not sure on this, but is the chart for re-valves? From their website on sevice, the fine print below the chart reads like tuning just means you get a dyno sheet after a rebuild with stock parts. And any real tuning costs extra.



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[phate]

Originally Posted by KevinK2 Not sure on this, but is the chart for re-valves? From their website on sevice, the fine print below the chart reads like tuning just means you get a dyno sheet after a rebuild with stock parts. And any real tuning costs extra. .

Yes, they offer re-valve services. I talked to them about it a long time ago, they dyno shocks before and after if you want them to, which is what I think they're referring to.

[KevinK2]

Yes, I see the bottom chart is titled re-valving service fees. But at the bottom:
"Tuning fees of $55.00 an hour apply if it is necessary to meet specific damping targets." So I guess you get a generic re-valve for that price, based on your car weight spring rates, and intended use. But if you know the damping curves your looking for, that costs extra.


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[jcolton]

Originally Posted by cocoanton There is no v3 for the ms6 as to my knowledge. Wante v3 but had to s"settle" for v2. That was 4 years ago. No regrets!

Agreed, that's my bad i missed that OP was MS6. The v3's went on a speed3. I've been running corksport coilovers and they ride pretty nice! Once I figured out the adjustment stuff at lease, at first it was damn stiff. The KW v3's in comparison ride much smoother with the same if not better performance with the rebound adjustment set up properly which was damn impressive. Id love to see how the V2's ride compared to the V3's as I wouldn't think many people would screw with rebound stuff too much?

[joscreven]

I want to ask the gurus on here as this is the "official MS6 suspension thread". I've searched high and low and seen various competing arguments on whether to get Bilstein HDs or B8 (sports) if you have lowering springs at all. I have RS*R springs that lower the car 1.3 inches. The Bilstien info I've seen say HD struts are good from stock down to 1.5 inches. I also have seen on a few threads that people got the HDs and seemed pleased.

My question is are HD struts actually good to 1.5 inches? Or should I go with the B8s? This is a DD so no need for anything extreme. I just don't want to get the HDs and then my suspension be so screwy I have to shell out $$$ for the B8s in the end anyway. Thoughts and ansers appreciated.

[phate]

The B6's (HD's) are fine for any amount of lowering in the MS6. The shock will not be the first item to bottom out, so it doesn't matter.

The suspension won't be 'screwy', but the B6's are very soft. The B8's supposedly have more damping, which is a good thing for performance but I haven't experienced it first hand.

[joscreven]

Thanks for the info Phate, that is a good point about something else bottoming out before the strut does...

I would be going from stock struts, so I would imagine the B6s/HDs would be an improvement, however slight. My main goal was to get rid of the incredible fender gap at stock, while still having some reasonable amount of comfort given the roads these days. I wanted to do shocks/struts together since I've heard the OEM MS6 struts don't last long with lowering springs

[KevinK2]

I'd be interested in where Bilstein says the HD's are ok for 1.5" drop, no disrespect I just have not seen that. They do say B8's are good for it.

With your RS's, although not likely an issue, just make sure the springs don't get loose at full droop (standard rod length), and verify you have a proper bump stop in compression, inside the shock and/or outside .. trimmed if necessary.

I found this old link with an Rx8 on RB drop springs (~20% stiffer) and B6's, and he approves. Bilstein HD shocks impressions - RX8Club.com


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[joscreven]

KevinK2, you acutally make a really good point. Multiple forums mention that the HD (B6) are good from stock and "small" drops...but on further investigation I see no where that Bilstein officially say this in the product description. On the contrary I have mainly seen the product description say it's good for stock ride height.

This begs the question that if all of these people that put on HDs with lowering springs is their ride improved? By browsing forums it seems people approve, but it's hard to get anything verifiable as everyone has different opinions.

The RX8 had RB springs that only lower .5 inches. I would think the HDs probably would have been good for that minor amount of lowering.

I am going to call Bilstein. I'll be back with their responses.

[KevinK2]

Originally Posted by joscreven .... The RX8 had RB springs that only lower .5 inches. I would think the HDs probably would have been good for that minor amount of lowering...

You have 2 things to consider here, drop and spring rate.

The RSR's are only 20-23% stiffer than stock, as is the RB's on the Rx8 (20%). This example establishes the ride quality you can expect, which sounds great from this one source.

Now consider drop. The B8's have shorter piston rods, for the shorter travel of a racing or large drop spring. This makes sure the spring does not get loose at full droop, like if you catch air speeding over a launch ramp type crest of a hill. For your case of no-HPDE track use, dd, that's about it. As far as strength of the B6, Phate is running 700 - 850 lb/in springs on B6's with modified valving, and pulling 1.3G's on corners during Autox, so that's NOT an issue.

But as with any shock upgrade and lowering spring, you need to make sure you don't top out during compression too soon, so check bump stops, as I said.


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[joscreven]

Just talked with Bilstein. They confirmed the HD (B6) are meant for stock ride height and are not recommended for lowering, so I'm really not sure how it ever got into the forums that this was gospel. The B8 is recommended for lowered height. That being said, they didn't say you can't use the HDs.

This again brings up the question of how everyone that is using the HDs with lowering springs feels about the handling of the car.

[phate]

The handling with OTS B6's is fine, but SOFT. That's it. I autocrossed the car for a season with them and H&R springs. There is much better out there, but really for most people they do just fine.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that the B6's are just fine, dimension wise, to run with lowering springs. Dampers aren't position sensitive, they're velocity sensitive. You'll just be running the piston lower in the body than you would be with a B8, but that isn't an issue. You won't damage them, they won't provide any different damping than if you ran them with stock height springs.

The B8's offer a little more damping, and I think that's a good thing for the MS6. The rear could definitely use a little more than the B6's provide.

For people who aren't worried about performance, the B6's work great and don't degrade the handling at all. They're more comfortable than stock and they should last forever. If you want a very slight bump in performance, go with the B8's. If you want the ability to turn them into coil overs down the road, either will work but I have a slight preference for the B6's because they should allow a bit more droop travel before full extension.

[joscreven]

Phate, forgive me if this is a dumb question, but the B6s are still stiffer than the stock MS6 suspension, correct? I don't mind it being a little firmer. I plan on AutoXing at some point, but as anyone that daily drives 99% of my time will be in normal (crap) roads in some amount of traffic.

[phate]

It's been a while, lol. I'd say low speed damping of the B6 is very similar to stock in the front, a little less in the rear. High speed damping on both are less than stock, so the bump handling is better and more comfortable.

[joscreven]

Thanks for all the comments. I can offer some opinions when I get my set up complete. Thanks again.

[SpeedRebirth]

Great to hear that Bilsteins are working nicely on our cars and that quality is much better than the chinese coils that a lot of people use. I'm going with B12 Pro kit because stock ride height is fugly and they are "tuned" as a kit together with the Eibach springs so they should perform perfectly and as phate said, last forever. Love how cheap they are too

I'll DD my car and go for spirited drives ofc. 500awhp should test them pretty good

Question, one should replace the top hat right? My oems looked like fried fries

[abdeel98]

PAO MOTORING Coilover For Mazda 3 2010-2013 Mazdaspeed 3 Coil Suspension Coilovers Spring Strut absorber Airmatic. Anybody knows anything about this set on sale in amazon? I wonder? See link below...

https://www.amazon.com/MOTORING-2010...trut+shock+kit

[Code Monkey]

[Marcus]

I did a search in this thread and nothing came up so, a PSA regarding Moog "adjustable" ball joints for the Speed6.

They can only be adjusted before they're pressed in... dont make my mistake. I opted to try those since it would've been SPC #3 for the right.

I should also state I'm not too impressed with H&R Coils after 4 months. I should've went with B8's and CS or custom springs.

[MichaelAress]

I seem to find a lot of threads have old links to nowhere a lot are stickies. Seems like they shouldnt be a sticky anymore if the links are all dead.

[jcolton]

Originally Posted by MichaelAress I seem to find a lot of threads have old links to nowhere a lot are stickies. Seems like they shouldnt be a sticky anymore if the links are all dead.

It's often hard to keep links live forever....especially to products...manufacturers/resellers are constantly changing their website. This post still contains all of the information you are looking for, it's just not spoon fed to you. Run a Google search on a couple of these things that you find interesting and instead of complaining that none of the links work, maybe offer some replacement links to the products you were interested in for those that come next. That's how we all work together in a forum to keep info current and to maintain the library of knowledge here.