Injector seals solution. Version B

[phate]

Originally Posted by ms3blackmica I no haz spare head lol I think the key for the toyota seal being useful is to torque it a little extra (like a max of 25 ft-lbs as DJ said) to ensure all 4 have crushed as much as it can like you showed in your tests.

I meant grab extra seals and see how much they all crush at whatever torque value. Torque readings can be thrown off by something as simple as dirty threads. If you install a set, pull them and measure, you can see what's going to happen on each cylinder. From there it's fairly simple troubleshooting as to why they don't crush evenly.

[ms3blackmica]

Originally Posted by phate I meant grab extra seals and see how much they all crush at whatever torque value. Torque readings can be thrown off by something as simple as dirty threads. If you install a set, pull them and measure, you can see what's going to happen on each cylinder. From there it's fairly simple troubleshooting as to why they don't crush evenly.

You are a smart man.

Good thinking!

[jack_hammer]

i found out i had leaking seals (oem) b/c i was getting knock

[LatinKraze]

Found the seals for $1.50 @ TRD Sparks Toyota Parts & Scion Performance Parts Accessories from Sparks Toyota-Scion

Shipping is more than four seals but it gets shipped to your door and it's convenient for people like me who can't get to the stealership. Great for the NATOR guys that can get them shipped for the whole chapter for one shipping fee.

[phate]

Originally Posted by phate Ok, beware this is going to be a somewhat half ass post because I did this testing ~3 months ago and didn't write down initial measurements. Not that they are terribly important, because we have decent comparative values. [I did go out to the garage and get readings of 1.620-1.630mm on a new injector seal, though.] Anyway, the setup: I wanted to see just how much these Toyota seals crushed at different torque levels with the stock crows feet and stock bolts. I used ARP Ultra Torque on the threads and the friction point where the bolt head meets the foot, and where the foot meets the head and injector. Minimum friction, lol. I did three tests, each with 3 different seals in each test (9 seals used). 1) torque to 15lb-ft, measure. Retorque to 20lb-ft, measure. Retorque to 25lb-ft, measure. 2) torque to 20lb-ft, measure. Retorque to 25lb-ft, measure. 3) Torque to 25lb-ft, measure. Crush results (Excel workbook also attached): http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...sh_Testing.jpg ^^Units in mm^^ "Seal #x " should actually read "Test #x " So, as you can see, at 15lb-ft, there was still room to crush them some more. They didn't crush much beyond 20lb-ft, so I don't think it's worth going with the higher torque value. The OE torque spec of ~17lb-ft is probably a safe bet, really. The seals don't seem to be reusable, as they crush inward and pinch the injector tip. Note: The minimum and maximum are the from height measurements around the seal. A brand new seal I just measured displayed a similar variance between min and max - 1.620 minimum and 1.630 maximum. A similar variance to the crushed min/max values. I didn't notice any correlation between the orientation of the seal compared to the crows foot, it seemed to be random with each seal.

Originally Posted by phate I just thought of a simple way to check the "max" crush we would be able to get out of the crows foot. They make plastigauge that reads in the .030-.070" range, which is what we're dealing with. I think I'll set it up without a seal and crank it down at different torque ranges similar to what I did above. That way we'll see if there's still movement left in the crows foot to increase clamping force on the injector, itself. If there's still movement left, I think we can assume the extra torque on the bolt would increase clamping force. Sound reasonable?

Soooooo, I did the "max crush" testing and came up with very similar values to what my Toyota seals crushed to. I also tested my actual head for my new engine with a set of injector seals to see if any were off like Dano's and ms3blackmica's. They all crushed pretty evenly, so I'm hopeful (I'll post that in my build thread for future reference).

It's in one of these two threads we were talking about it. Can't find it in this one...

[dgiannitakis]

I am expecting cp-e injector seals delivery next week...

[Mizzle]

Originally Posted by dgiannitakis I am expecting cp-e injector seals delivery next week...

...cool story.

[phate]

Since we had two threads by Paveltol, with the exact same name, started at the exact same time...I added a version to the thread title. I couldn't, for the longest time, figure out why I couldn't find some info again...and it's because there were two threads with the same name. Please no one ever do something like that again.

This thread is version "B"

Over here is version "A": Injector seals solution. Version A

They both have great information, and are way too long to merge.

[TECH2EIGHT]

just bought mine at kendall Toyota ill have em on Saturday. 3 bucks a pop,,, I can deal with that...installing them same day!!


Anyone in Oregon area? would like to a help a essay
out installing seals?

[JB11SPEED3]

Has any one side the HPFPupgrade.com stud kits they come with washer so no cutting the torx bolts an it's only 39.95

[mituc]

Good afternoon, you landed on planet Earth. Now go back to where you came from.

[jack_hammer]

Originally Posted by JB11SPEED3 Has any one side the HPFPupgrade.com stud kits they come with washer so no cutting the torx bolts an it's only 39.95

their stud kits are fine.

[Snotrocket]

25 lbs of boost. 20,000km. Torqued to the specs on here. They just don't hold up :/

[sh4d0w]

Subbed cause interesting.

[BuddySpeed3]

Originally Posted by Snotrocket 25 lbs of boost. 20,000km. Torqued to the specs on here. They just don't hold up :/

Is this with OEM seals or Toyota seals?

[sh4d0w]

You have to assume it's the yota seals cause he says "torqued to specs posted here" "They just don't hold up". I think earlier in the thread he even mentions installing them.

Originally Posted by Snotrocket View Post
I have been running 26 psi for 10,000k. No issues on Toyota seals.

Yea he was.

[BuddySpeed3]

Originally Posted by sh4d0w You have to assume it's the yota seals cause he says "torqued to specs posted here" "They just don't hold up". I think earlier in the thread he even mentions installing them. Originally Posted by Snotrocket View Post I have been running 26 psi for 10,000k. No issues on Toyota seals. Yea he was.

Awesome! yeah I figured. I just hope the Toyota seals are better than the oem seals. but who knows. If they are it would be a cheap alternative for people not looking for excessive power.

You said 26 psi...How much power are u making and are u running e85/methanol? the reason I ask is cause someone on here said he's still running OEM seals with 400 hp. He said that it may be due to the fact that since day 1, he's been running e85/meth which keeps knock at bay. I wonder if knock is the cause for the seals failing to begin with from the sudden pressure spike that it creates.

EDIT : woops 26 psi quoted to snotrocket my bad.

[Code Monkey]

I blew through PTP seals, then through the Toyota seals, and I just installed CorkSport seals. In the unfortunate case they last similar as the Toyota seals (~1.5 years) I will be switching back to Toyota seals, can't beat the price.

[racersir]

I'm installing the Toyota seals tomorrow. What is the consensus torque specs 25lb? Also I was planning on using the same o- rings that go to the rail the blue ones since I don't have them available locally. Do you guys replaced the blue o-rings also? Thanks

[muffhugger]

Got my Toyota seals last week. Can't wait to test them out.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by Code Monkey I blew through PTP seals, then through the Toyota seals, and I just installed CorkSport seals. In the unfortunate case they last similar as the Toyota seals (~1.5 years) I will be switching back to Toyota seals, can't beat the price.

They're gonna last you longer than that.

[leo766]

Originally Posted by Code Monkey I blew through PTP seals, then through the Toyota seals, and I just installed CorkSport seals. In the unfortunate case they last similar as the Toyota seals (~1.5 years) I will be switching back to Toyota seals, can't beat the price.

Did you use the stock bolts/washers on the seals that failed or no? I wanted to ask both Code Monkey and Snot Rocket? Since it would seem plasuible that you either need new hardware(like the cp-e kit), or modify the stock studs, or have cupped crushing seals like corksport to apply full seating force, and i could see how relying on a surface as small as the toyota seals on one side and the stock torx bolts and cupped washers could create a seal almost as unerliable as the stock one in some cases?

*i dont know nuthing tho, just wanted to ask and propose a theory, but for all i know you guys did it all and they still failed on ya, i have had a set sitting a few months and i have been wondering if I should try and throw em on, or save and get the CS or CPE ones*

[Code Monkey]

With the PTP seals, I used their studs and bolts, switched back to stock torx for Toyota and CorkSport.

[Fstrnyou]

Just ordered 2 sets from my local Yotaship. $2.10ea. Plenty at warehouse. It's Saturday, so I won't have them until Tuesday. Good to know there's no more shortages like 4 years ago.