cp-e Full Control

[TRU-BOOST]

right, then for the small fee of $2000+ for a flash, piggyback and dyno time, you will be all set. the soone to be superchips flash tool = $400 + dyno time at any one of their HUNDREDS of nationwide tuners to dial it in = less than $800.... DONE ! granted its not here yet, but it will be soon according to the email i got from them a few days ago !

[Haltech]

i dont care which company you like, are involved with or think is better... There is NO way any off the shelf tune will be perfect for every combination running out there. Its absolutely impossible.

If CP-e is able to tailor the flash to work in conjunction with their standback v2, than thats a great solution for people who really need to dive in and get their car tuned perfectly running big turbos, manifolds, fuel pumps, etc.

Cobb's approach is much different. If you run their combo of selected parts, the flash is already tailored to it. They are working hard to customize tunes for other bolts on's which is great, including their open dialog with the community. Down the road, they will be offering a tuning solution to allow custom home tuning.

Unichip's approached has really not been discussed much. But, again, another option available if you follow their recipe of parts. Im curious how the MS6 guys running the setup like it.

We are the lucky ones to have three approaches as options. It shouldnt even be an argument at this point.

[dadasracecar]

Originally Posted by TRU-BOOST right, then for the small fee of $2000+ for a flash, piggyback and dyno time, you will be all set. the soone to be superchips flash tool = $400 + dyno time at any one of their HUNDREDS of nationwide tuners to dial it in = less than $800.... DONE ! granted its not here yet, but it will be soon according to the email i got from them a few days ago !

Quit making shit up. Last I heard the flash was not going to be expensive, like $2-300. Standback is $600 and the dyno time shouldn't be more than $300.

[NYpest]

Originally Posted by dadasracecar Wow, obviously you haven't been paying attention... The cp-e flash will work to improve the closed loop/open loop transition, keep the throttle plate open, and deal with temperature related problems. All of which will enhance the standback's effectiveness. THat way you can tune it yourself or pay a local shop a normal rate rather than have to go to a COBB affiliate.

The "Temperature" realted problem that occurs when the standback is installed??


Or is there another temp relatd problem?

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by NYpest The "Temperature" realted problem that occurs when the standback is installed?? Or is there another temp relatd problem?

it occurs whether the standback is on or not.... you just cant fix it with the standback.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by dadasracecar Quit making shit up. Last I heard the flash was not going to be expensive, like $2-300. Standback is $600 and the dyno time shouldn't be more than $300.

standback.... 600
flash..... 200-300

combined.... 700-800

pnp if you want it... 400

for it all to work and the ability to tune on your own... priceless

[Laloosh]

the temp problem occurs cause of the stock ecu. I run high 12 a/f ratios in the winter and high 10s in the summer

[Christian.]

Originally Posted by palerider standback.... 600 flash..... 200-300 combined.... 700-800 pnp if you want it... 400 for it all to work and the ability to tune on your own... priceless

Shouldn't you also include the price of a laptop since that will be necessary for end user tuning? Even the Subaru and EVO communities have come to the conclusion that you cannot compare the prices of a end-user tuning solution without including the price of a laptop. Your thoughts? Price wars are never good, but they need to fair IMO.

[dadasracecar]

If you're reading this you have the capability to tune. You tune the standback using a USB cable. Just pull the standback and take it to your computer. You need a laptop for datalogging using it but I use the dashhawk more than the standback for the latter.

[4thStroke]

What if you are at the race track and need to know the improvements vs how it feels? You need some sort of proof that the car is faster. Its either going to be a very slow process if you dont have a lap top, or a very inaccurate tune if you want it done in a timely manner.

Im confused. If you have the standback, you are going to custom tune it yourself or bring it in, correct? Wouldnt this render the CP-E flash useless? Is the CP-E flash for a stock MS3?

If the flash in the standback or in the MS3's ECU?

Im not familiar with piggyback tuning, so please forgive me here. How do you get accurate real time info from the car if the ECU is being tricked into believing certain things are going on? Are you plugging into the standback to get these sensor readings? Are you logging from the standback so you get accurate info?

I am confused.

[kramer]

Yep - when I need to make changes - I just pull out the standback (nice and easy as unhooking any harness connector) then hook it up to my home pc (which I already had, and if you don't have one already, can always take it to a friend's house) then pull data, make changes, and fine tune - it's nice, because I can also use this same machine to save all my configurations, go online and look up information, and write/read e-mails to the manufacturer for tips and help.

Price wars are a great thing! for the consumer!

Adding the cost of a laptop, IMO, is NOT an integral part of the standback.
You add up all of the items that are not usually already on hand for the average consumer(ie. a tuning solution made by a particular company, custom connectors, dyno time). A personal computer is readily available in this day and age.

That said, I'm still eagerly awaiting more specific details and some results for this flash. Anything to help me have more control over my machine is a good thing in my book.
I don't like being told, "oh you don't need control over [particular function]. it only helps when you do [insert mods]. If done wrong you'll mess up your motor."
Welp - just like every other tunable function - if you pull it too far, you're going to go boom - so give me control over everything, and let me decide whether I want the ability to change it or not.

[Haltech]

Well if you dont have a laptop, i dont know what to tell you. Every person out there who tunes their own stuff, have laptops... Mine goes with me anytime i goto the track. I can make up for shitty track conditions, cold/hot weather, etc. Since i used to do a lot of bracket racing, it had saved my ass many times over. There wasnt a weekend from 2002-2006 i didnt come home with at least $1100 in my pocket every sun... Laptop paid for itself many times over.

A bump +/- in timing or fuel can make a big difference... in high humidity, even a bump in boost will help. You can also datalog each pass.. as your vehicle cools down, you can look at the run and see if any tweaks need to be made.

Though i havent had any urge to go drag race the ms3 yet, this is exactly what i would be doing myself with the proper tuning solution that i will choose.

[TRU-BOOST]

i just dont like the idea of using 2 systems to do the job of 1 GOOD one.
i admit, i didnt know the flash was going to be so cheap, my bad there.
but still, i would take one good street/dyno tuned flash any day, HANDS DOWN !
from what i have seen, and christian can correct me if i am wrong, is that the AP tuning software should be out in a few months. if that is the case.....P&L here i come !!
well unless the superchips flash tool comes to the market significantly cheaper.

[Haltech]

Superchips is very conservative, more so than Cobb will ever be. This is why SCT was born, they got their hands on Superchips hardware and thats all they needed. The rest of it, well... is history.

Cpe/Cobb is going to be the hot ticket. Everything else is just going to be ok.

[NYpest]

Originally Posted by palerider it occurs whether the standback is on or not.... you just cant fix it with the standback.

Thank you


Im going to have to search that info out i didint realize cars running the stock ROM were having this temp problem.

[NYpest]

Originally Posted by Laloosh the temp problem occurs cause of the stock ecu. I run high 12 a/f ratios in the winter and high 10s in the summer

Isn’t this just a matter of air charge density vs. the stock ROM boost target?

If the boost targets are raised and AFR tables are corrected for just such an increase wouldn’t then (hypothetical at the moment) new recalibrated ROM perform honest?

[JimmyMac]

I don't think he's been reading it all. I think CPe's flash would benefit all piggy backs. Not just the Standback. I think that's CPe's main goal is to make this flash a "door way" to proper piggy back tuning without the ecu changing things up when the temperature changes outside. We know that the Standback or Xede works. You can tune your car and make timing and fuel changes. But once the weather changes, then your tune is basically out the door because the ecu decides to make soo many changes. It may be worth keeping my Xede if I can get the reflash (provided I don't need a standback to do it). Anyways, that's how I interpret all this. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by JimmyMac I don't think he's been reading it all. I think CPe's flash would benefit all piggy backs. Not just the Standback. I think that's CPe's main goal is to make this flash a "door way" to proper piggy back tuning without the ecu changing things up when the temperature changes outside. We know that the Standback or Xede works. You can tune your car and make timing and fuel changes. But once the weather changes, then your tune is basically out the door because the ecu decides to make soo many changes. It may be worth keeping my Xede if I can get the reflash (provided I don't need a standback to do it). Anyways, that's how I interpret all this. Correct me if I'm wrong.

jimmy...have you got a copy of your last xede dyno. throw it up on the dyno thread. lets see how your doing with it.

and nice post btw...lol i think youre exactly right with your interpretation of what cpes intent is. they plan on throttle changes and a few more other things as well though.

[JimmyMac]

I never did get a dyno done with my Xede. I really didn't start playing with it until recently when I got the Dashhawk. But I took it off because my car kept cutting on and off while driving. It was a loose or bad t-tap connection to the power wire for the Xede. Need to direct solder it. Too dangerous not to. Also tried to get some support on how to tune the MAP map on it. But not much advice was coming my way. So I may get a Standback later on since there are alot of people supporting it. Anyways, on a cold day my car was in the 12's a/f on a couple of pulls. I changed the MAF map and got it down to the 10~11 a/f. So I do know it works. Hooking up the Xede to my car when it was stock was the largest hp gain I could feel. No doubt about that. Everything after felt small. I need to find a dyno close by. We don't have any locally.

I don't think many people read all the info before posting. They just ASSume things too much. And you know what they say about ASSume. hehe

Well lemme go figure out this damn GT2871R on my car. Car seems to spool up slow or lag in the lower rpm's but rips up high. I think the car is actually slower! haha. But it might be the 100+ degree weather we are having here in NC too!! But this is another topic....

[94jedi]

hmmm....I have to admit, once coupled with a flash, the standback will be very intriguing. I would LOVE to be able to data log and tune w/ my laptop NOW! My hope is that the ACESSTuner RACE s/w comes out sooner than later and gives the ability to datalog as well as tune w/ my laptop.

So, as of yet, I haven't heard a solid ETA for the CP-E flash being released. I might have missed it somewhere in this thread so forgive me if I'm wrong but does anyone know a date yet?

[ATE BALLER]

The way the Mazda community is with deadlines, they probably won't give us a date. One error during testing could easily set them back by over a month. Maybe less, maybe more. I would expect something before winter, but IDK.

[94jedi]

Originally Posted by ATE BALLER The way the Mazda community is with deadlines, they probably won't give us a date. One error during testing could easily set them back by over a month. Maybe less, maybe more. I would expect something before winter, but IDK.

good point lol. It's better not to give a date and just drop it on us. then they look like the hero's. assuming it happens before winter lol.

[phailerider]

itll happen before winter lol... they already have the capability to flash the same type of flash thats already out there... there working on other stuff.

Its a matter of weeks before beta flashs and standback tunes will be reported.

[TRU-BOOST]

Originally Posted by Haltech Superchips is very conservative, more so than Cobb will ever be. This is why SCT was born, they got their hands on Superchips hardware and thats all they needed. The rest of it, well... is history. Cpe/Cobb is going to be the hot ticket. Everything else is just going to be ok.

true, in "off the shelf" form. but face it...a flash tool is a flash tool. it doesnt matter whos name is on it. once you get it to a dyno and actually TUNE it. and there are MANY more shops nationwide that tune superchips products.

[Haltech]

Well Superchips doesnt tune like say SCT does nor can they tap half the parameters as their competitors. Infact, they only mess with timing and fuel on their "maps" from my experience with their products. As far as a flash products all being the same, i cant agree with that. Im not looking at the hardware when saying this when describing the flash. The hardware is going to get your adjustable map in place and hopefully, save your stock map for later upload if you need to service the car at a later date.

One thing im looking at when observing a ECU flash is Im looking at the blanket ECU map... Does the blanket ecu map address the following?

• Adjusted Sensor Parameters
• Adjusted Cold Weather Mapping
• Adjusted Boost Levels
• Adjusted Timing Map
• Adjusted Fueling Parameters
• Adjusted Load Values
• Monitors Knock Read Out
• Elevated Boost Levels in Gears 1 & 2
• Factory Rich Spikes Flattened
• Factory Lean Spike Flattened

Than on top of those blanket parameters being remapped, what benefits lie further from a more efficient turbo, fuel pump and methanol injection? What parameters am i, the end user, going to be able to adjust and what flexibility will i be given to make these adjustments.

The company themselves are going to determine, exactly what you and i can play with.

[TRU-BOOST]

hhmmm i didnt know all that. i have know that superchips off the shelf tunes are rather weak. i figured it could ALL be messed with by a tuner though. i guess if their software doesnt address certain things, you are S.O.L !! well i guess that leaves me with COBB. unless....... if the superchips unit has throttle control, i may just get it. in my eyes thats all my car needs. fuel, timing, and throttle control. i am fine with the MBC for boost control.

[94jedi]

So I just read on another forum that CP-e has full throttle control?
here's what I copied:
[quote author=www.cp-e.com link=topic=115833.msg2420628#msg2420628 date=1214461997]
You guys asked for it, so here it is. When you put your foot to the floor, the throttle goes to 100%, wide open, every time. cp-e now has FullControl over the throttle :dmention7:




Holy sh*t! What did you guys do?!?!

We made the car behave. Actually, Lou made the car behave. He spent the last ten weeks methodically breaking down the ECU's code so that he could understand exactly how it works before he started making any changes. Now that he's finished he can start playing! This was his first change so far, and there will be more to follow. We can't wait to show you what we can do with this thing!


What does this mean exactly? What else can you guys do with the car?

Anything, really. This will be the first of many many flashes from the FullControl series. We have a series of goals set and we'll release new flashes as they're developed.


How did the car feel? Was it any faster?

Not only wasn't I there, but I was asleep in bed when I got the phone call that Lou got control over the throttle, lol! So I have no idea . What I do know that is we will be hitting the dyno in the next few days.


Did you get any CEL's? Did the car drive okay??

Actually the car drove great. No CEL's, no weird issues. We need to refine the throttle mapping a little and it'll be ready for prime time.


What a minute! I know what you guys did. You just drew a straight line on that graph in Microsoft Paint didn't you!"

One more for good luck...with a shift in bewteen? :chuckles:




And I know you're all dying for a price. We're going to talk it over tomorrow and come up with some numbers for you guys. Thanks to all of our customers and to those that have helped us along with this project. This is digital information folks so it's bound to be copied as soon as it's released, but remember who brought it to you when no one else could!!
[/quote]

[Haltech]

I see this helping the big turbo guys big time! Great fuckin news. Now lets see what else they can change to get this damn car to behave for full tuning!

[SgtP]

yay CPE ftw!!!

[NYpest]

Great news good work CPE

[SgtP]

Never met Lou but the rest of CPE are some of the nicest people I have met!

[Cosmic3MPS]

This is a red letter day but how on earth do we get this to Australia? I am so happy for you guys

[ATE BALLER]

HIP-HIP-HORRAY!

Oh no, my britches are wet! Damnit!

[mrlilguy157]

hott

[phannarith]

Originally Posted by SgtP Never met Lou but the rest of CPE are some of the nicest people I have met!

Lou is the guy who never ever sleeps.

[phailerider]

hmmm.. so based on this. lets have a little talk.

cobb said that throttle staying open only made around 3-5hp if im not mistaken. The assumption is that the turbo still fell off to about 11psi at 6000+ rpms.

Now those charts are showing boost sitting at 16-17 psi on whichever car they used. Am I supposed to believe that 5 psi of boost at that rpm is only gonna make 3-5 more hp than stock. Dont buy it.

Well, then this leads to the next question. what else may have been manipulated in order to accomplish this. i suspect that if there were other things that have been programmed, that we will never know...lol You may think im hiding something but in my last conversation with the guys about this.... encryption came up ALOT.

This could get very interesting.

[SgtP]

so are your PM's!!! i really hope this turns out the way we all hope!!

[94jedi]

Originally Posted by palerider hmmm.. so based on this. lets have a little talk. cobb said that throttle staying open only made around 3-5hp if im not mistaken. The assumption is that the turbo still fell off to about 11psi at 6000+ rpms. Now those charts are showing boost sitting at 16-17 psi on whichever car they used. Am I supposed to believe that 5 psi of boost at that rpm is only gonna make 3-5 more hp than stock. Dont buy it. Well, then this leads to the next question. what else may have been manipulated in order to accomplish this. i suspect that if there were other things that have been programmed, that we will never know...lol You may think im hiding something but in my last conversation with the guys about this.... encryption came up ALOT. This could get very interesting.

I'm not bailing on Cobb by any means but I definitely want to see what CP-e is bringing to the table. Interesting? shoot, I'm chomping at the bit to see dyno's!!!

[PeterSellers]

Originally Posted by palerider hmmm.. so based on this. lets have a little talk. Now those charts are showing boost sitting at 16-17 psi on whichever car they used. Am I supposed to believe that 5 psi of boost at that rpm is only gonna make 3-5 more hp than stock. Dont buy it.

Just because boost is sitting 5 psi higher than stock does not necessarily mean it's making more power. Hell, it could be making less power if the boost temps are significantly high enough.

What we really need to see is a dyno.

[IKILLPEOPLE]

Originally Posted by PeterSellers Just because boost is sitting 5 psi higher than stock does not necessarily mean it's making more power. Hell, it could be making less power if the boost temps are significantly high enough. What we really need to see is a dyno.

While this flash would work on stock turbo guys, i think the huge benefits would be seen on the big turbo MS3's. Thats not to say that there won't be power for the little guys tho...

If your boost temps are high, you can always go FMIC, water\meth, or even pull a tad bit of timing up top... there is no way that this wouldn't make way more power...