Anyone use VIS Motorsport HPFP Internals?

[spikespencer]

Seems like everyone here is running either Corksport or Autotech HPFP Internals but I've heard a lot of good things about VIS Motorsport HPFP Internals from non-Mazda owners and I understand whether they are Corksport (Gen-6-999-10), VIS (P495-15), or Autotech (10-127-100K) that they're all compatible in cars with similar HPFP.

I see some design differences, ones that I like more with VIS (Autotech left, Stage 2 VIS center and Stage 1 right in image below), but I would like to know if I'm going to be the first person to try this or if anyone else has ever installed VIS HPFP Internals? I couldn't find any other threads mentioning it, so I'm thinking I will be. If I end up being the first to try them I'll report back and let everyone know what I find in this thread.

[GroceryGtr]

keep us updated. I hate the damn rattle from the autotechs and CS solution. Wondering if VIS has the same issue.

[WAMBUSHHHH!]

Originally Posted by GroceryGtr keep us updated. I hate the damn rattle from the autotechs and CS solution. Wondering if VIS has the same issue.

You're not the first person I've heard this complaint from but in the 4 years I had my AT internals installed, I never once heard any rattle or if I did it wasn't noticeable enough to register. I assume that my RMM (JBR 70 which was later swapped for the MD RMM) was probably the reason I didn't hear any subtle noises from the internals as the slight increase in NVHs drowned out any subtle rattles. Another NATOR member said they heard a rattle caused by the AT internals but in the car I could hear nothing and only faintly heard something when I had my head in the engine and he started the car like a dickhead. If its loud enough to hear in the cabin and it drives you that crazy I'd probably pull them just to be certain everything is seated correctly?

OP I think you may be hard pressed to find someone who has used something different outside of AT and CS. AT and CS have been the only game in town for a while and for good reason. They're the tried and true internals for these car. They just work and because of that there really hasn't been a need to support other options. I would think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who has tried any other option outside of AT and CS for those reasons alone. If you factor in that this platform is 4 years past production death, internals are just not an area that needed innovation or more options. With that said though, trail-blaze and test them yourself! Who knows you may be able to offer a third option for the last remaining owners who need internals!

[Bexar]

Originally Posted by WAMBUSHHHH! If you factor in that this platform is 4 years past production death, internals are just not an area that needed innovation or more options. With that said though, trail-blaze and test them yourself! Who knows you may be able to offer a third option for the last remaining owners who need internals!

Correct, internals don't need innovation. However, I don't agree that we don't need more options. It would be great to see a company come and undercut CS/AT prices if their quality was on-par.

[WAMBUSHHHH!]

Originally Posted by Bexar Correct, internals don't need innovation. However, I don't agree that we don't need more options. It would be great to see a company come and undercut CS/AT prices if their quality was on-par.

I suppose I should have phrased that last part differently. More options aren't necessarily NEEDED but would be WANTED by a select few. The vast majority of owners who are modding already have their internals and since AT and CS have withstood the test of time I highly doubt anyone is willing to remove their AT/CS internals for another option that hasn't withstood the same trials AT/CS internals have especially the aforementioned test of time.

The very small population of new owners looking for internals just isn't a market worth exploring since AT and CS are the proven titans. Any option that comes forward at this point will always pale in comparison because of how long AT/CS have been out and how many cars are running them. Even if a third option was discovered and it was priced better, there will always be doubt and comparison to their AT/CS counterparts. I would think based on the vast majority of owners that AT/CS would still be recommended over a 3rd option simply because more people are running them without issue. No one is going to recommend a product they haven't tested themselves. I highly doubt at this point given the small market segment that a third option would drive the price down on AT/CS internals, if that's what you were implying originally. For example, AT internals didn't fall in price when CS released their internals.

Like I said, I think he'll be hard pressed to find anyone who has tried these internals since they probably were never on the map to begin with. If a third option is so coveted, OP has a chance here to be bring it to light by testing himself! He can be the first!

[zenit]

Interesting- keep us posted.

I wonder whether extra HPFP flow will do anything for maximum bhp achievable due to maxing out IDC's.

It could be that the mazdaspeed injectors can't use the extra flow and are the primary point of restriction.
@phate; @atvfreek; @xfeejayx; @silvapain;

[phate]

Originally Posted by zenit Interesting- keep us posted. I wonder whether extra HPFP flow will do anything for maximum bhp achievable due to maxing out IDC's. It could be that the mazdaspeed injectors can't use the extra flow and are the primary point of restriction. @phate; @atvfreek; @xfeejayx; @silvapain;

No extra pressure, no extra flow. We're limited by the ecu on max pressure, so the higher crack pressure relief valves are worthless as well.

Injectors are the next step, which isn't going to happen.

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[xfeejayx]

Also have diminishing returns with flow vs. pressure. I don't think you'll gain much with more pressure, but I haven't done the math to see what there is to be gained from the single orifice we have.

[nindoja]

Originally Posted by xfeejayx Also have diminishing returns with flow vs. pressure. I don't think you'll gain much with more pressure, but I haven't done the math to see what there is to be gained from the single orifice we have.

Didn't @Enki; do that in one of his threads?

[spikespencer]

I'll certainly keep everyone updated, it'll be a couple of weeks until it gets here and have a chance to install the kit, final price after converting from £200 is $270USD. Certainly a competitive price if you don't need it the next day.

I agree with @phate there's no more flow and no more pressure to be had, with everything being limited by the injectors, I read through Enki's threads fascinating.

However, I'm not personally looking to build huge power, I just want this car to last as my daily (60 miles in Seattle traffic) and be more reliable than my 93 RX7, so HPFP Internals are going on as a reliability mod since it came with mild bolt-ons I don't want to take off and I want to be able to support a little bit more.

VIS is super responsive to Facebook IMs so when I asked them about Mazda applications they said:

We have sold a lot of Mazda owners too but we cannot publish any name as they are protected by law, the pump is the same as Mazda, all customers buy and use it in all applications which this kit fits and a lot of them are for sure Mazda too! We have been working with race teams around the globe, car enthusiasts and simply customers with best results not to mention world record results too since 2009. Also you have a full warranty not like other companies such as Autotech which has zero warranty ��

I agree though I know a lot of people run the Autotech internals with no problems, I just don't feel they look as strong, then there's things like this below coupled with the lack of warranty. I'm liking the VIS just for peace of mind...

[silvapain]

Those “stage 2” internals look TOO big... and yes, you can have a pump that’s too big.

Once you deviate that far from the stock pump size, the ECU will have trouble maintaining consistent fuel pressure - in control lingo, the loop tuning becomes too hot. If you run the fuel pressure setpoint close to the crack pressure of the fuel rail pressure relief valve, it will activate frequently, which leads to premature failure of the valve. So to prevent that, you have to lower your fuel pressure setpoint, which won’t help with the spray pattern of the injector.


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[xfeejayx]

I'm seeing 300euro on their site, ~$360. Am I missing something?

[mituc]

Originally Posted by GroceryGtr keep us updated. I hate the damn rattle from the autotechs and CS solution. Wondering if VIS has the same issue.

This issue has been fixed by pretty much everyone like 450 years ago. The problem used to be (for some it still is) too high HPFP commanded pressure in low load/low RPM situations. Correct the fuel pressure tables in the tune (or simply use those stock tables, the ATs and CSs will land around 1800PSI anyway even if you command 1720) and that annoying rattle you can hear in those situations will simply go away.

[MSMS3]

Been running Autotech internals for about 6 years now or a bit more. No problem whatsoever. The same kit is used with success for many years in a lot of VW/Audi upgrade applications with their 2.0T engine.

Its reliability is well-established. Huge number of them in service. It gives us all the pressure and volume this engine can use with stock injectors. Bigger will not be better.

[WAMBUSHHHH!]

Originally Posted by spikespencer I agree though I know a lot of people run the Autotech internals with no problems, I just don't feel they look as strong, then there's things like this below coupled with the lack of warranty. I'm liking the VIS just for peace of mind...

Keep us posted when they arrive! I trust that you already have an AP or similar monitoring device to be sure that the fuel pressure is where it's supposed to be after install. I'm sure you know already what can happen if you're fuel pressure dips..

There is always going to be defects and the linked picture above is the exception not the rule when it comes to AT internals. They are the standard for our platform for a reason. If they were prone to massive failures trust that the community would have noted it and moved on to another option (cue Street Unit). I'm not sure why you have it in your mind that AT's reliability is questionable but to each their own. I'd be more inclined to use what the vast majority of owners have been using that has well over a decade worth of real world testing to back out their performance. But again, kudos for finding another possible option! Keep us posted!

[ChaunceyM]

Originally Posted by WAMBUSHHHH! If you factor in that this platform is 4 years past production death, internals are just not an area that needed innovation or more options. With that said though, trail-blaze and test them yourself! Who knows you may be able to offer a third option for the last remaining owners who need internals!

Go back to your VW circle-jerk, quitter!

[WAMBUSHHHH!]

Originally Posted by ChaunceyM Go back to your VW circle-jerk, quitter!

Says the guy who recently asked me about my trade-in value to help gauge some super secret project that would require the trading in of his speed...

[ChaunceyM]

Nothing but hearsay and conjecture!
Besides, that has since dried up, meaning I'm still a loyal MS3 owner.

[WAMBUSHHHH!]

Originally Posted by ChaunceyM Nothing but hearsay and conjecture! Besides, that has since dried up, meaning I'm still a loyal MS3 owner.

Yeah but you thought about it...

[spikespencer]

Originally Posted by silvapain Those “stage 2” internals look TOO big... and yes, you can have a pump that’s too big.

I have no interest in the Stage 2, I'll let the Audi/VW guys wear out the supporting engine internals. Stage 1 looks more than good enough.

Originally Posted by xfeejayx I'm seeing 300euro on their site, ~$360. Am I missing something?

They have an official eBay account I submitted a Best Offer of £200 and now I'm wondering if I should have gone lower...Still a good deal I think.

I'm not expecting the AutoTech to fail but I've been on the unlucky side of a part "that never failed that way before" failing with my first Mazda3 so I like the idea of both saving money, getting a warranty, and having a part that looks less likely to fail based on my visual impression.

[WAMBUSHHHH!]

Originally Posted by spikespencer I'm not expecting the AutoTech to fail but I've been on the unlucky side of a part "that never failed that way before" failing with my first Mazda3 so I like the idea of both saving money, getting a warranty, and having a part that looks less likely to fail based on my visual impression.

That's fair. I'm not trying to convince you otherwise, just trying to make it known that AT internal failures are the exception not the rule. I mean, just like the VIS the AT internals are actually VW internals that just pair very well with our platform. Best of luck, sir!

[Arab]

Originally Posted by spikespencer I have no interest in the Stage 2, I'll let the Audi/VW guys wear out the supporting engine internals. Stage 1 looks more than good enough. They have an official eBay account I submitted a Best Offer of £200 and now I'm wondering if I should have gone lower...Still a good deal I think. I'm not expecting the AutoTech to fail but I've been on the unlucky side of a part "that never failed that way before" failing with my first Mazda3 so I like the idea of both saving money, getting a warranty, and having a part that looks less likely to fail based on my visual impression.

I'm on the unlucky side too, I got black death from running e30 but my AT internals have been noisy from the start and have only had pressure issues when the black death built up. Even then it was easy to clean with that redline stuff and has been hitting 1900~2000 psi at WOT since.

Regarding VIS I know they make decent carbon fiber parts, my prelude has had a hood and trunk from them for 10 years and they still look new, but I didn't know they made anything like HPFP internals. I'm interested in a review if you get them cuz if my awd civic build doesn't go good I'll need another hatch and I've been thinking about adding an ms3 to my garage.

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[spikespencer]

Originally Posted by Arab I'm on the unlucky side too, I got black death from running e30Regarding VIS I know they make decent carbon fiber parts, my prelude has had a hood and trunk from them for 10 years and they still look new, but I didn't know they made anything like HPFP internals.

Totally different company, the Vis Racing Sports Inc. you're referring to is a U.S. headquartered company that specializes in body kits. VIS Motorsport headquartered in Romania and specializing in one thing and one thing only: Fuel solutions for Audi & VW TFSI 2.0T and 2.5T engines with HPFPs.

[Arab]

Originally Posted by spikespencer Totally different company, the Vis Racing Sports Inc. you're referring to is a U.S. headquartered company that specializes in body kits. VIS Motorsport headquartered in Romania and specializing in one thing and one thing only: Fuel solutions for Audi & VW TFSI 2.0T and 2.5T engines with HPFPs.

Lol that makes way more sense

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[mituc]

Wow... so I had these guys right under my nose and I found about them only now... Well, the fact that they deal mostly with failwagens and it only happens for our pumps to be alike kind of explains it.

[KiwiFlavor]

Originally Posted by mituc Wow... so I had these guys right under my nose and I found about them only now... Well, the fact that they deal mostly with failwagens and it only happens for our pumps to be alike kind of explains it.

@mituc;

Since they deal with fuel solutions, maybe u can ask them to make us injectors lol! I know it's far-fetched but probably worth asking. lol

[g00s3y]

This platform is on life support. More options for hpfp internals doesn't help anyone.

These are $359, how is that cheaper than autotech?

[mituc]

Originally Posted by g00s3y These are $359, how is that cheaper than autotech?

Here in Europe we get the Autotechs from the US. That means:
- $350 retail price;
- at least $30 for shipping, and for $30 shipping we usually wait 3-6 weeks;
- +20% VAT which is calculated for the retail price + shipping;
- +3-5% customs taxes, also calculated for the retail price + shipping;
= (350 + 30) * 1.25 =~ $475. So this is pretty much how much we pay for a set of autotech HPFP internals.

Now, the VIS Motorsports guys sell theirs for 300EUR which is about $350-360. So the price difference is quite significant for the Euro market.
So if you can source the VIS motorsports HPFP internals from an US/CAN reseller at a price which compares to the Autotechs and you realyl want these VIS motorsports internals then most probably it's going to worth it, as far as I understand the VIS internals are as reliable as they can be and they're available for more massmurderwagen TSI engines than the autotechs.

Originally Posted by KiwiFlavor Since they deal with fuel solutions, maybe u can ask them to make us injectors lol! I know it's far-fetched but probably worth asking. lol

They're only making these fuel pump pistons... nothing else.
Moreover, they're in Europe where the 2.3DISI-T engine is not necessarily one that was sold as extensively as in the US/CAN. The idiots from the goverments here are more concerned about the CO2 emissions from the engines (gasoline or petrol) than the poisoning soot and ashes that the planet killing diesels spit out of their tailpipes no matter they meet the euro3 or euro6 emissions standards.

Also, in its induced and well cultivated hypocrisy the european car buyer only wants to get from A to B in the cheapest way possible, no matter that the vegetation and animals suffocate behind him. So they will guy diesels even for short trips.

Now you can understand why big petrol engines are quite rare.

Originally Posted by g00s3y This platform is on life support. More options for hpfp internals doesn't help anyone

That, and the failwagen people also have the option of larger injectors with the WV stamp on them. You can slap 4.0FSI injectors on a 2.0TFSI, or 3.0/4.0TSI injectors on 2.5TSI and all of a sudden there's 20-30% more fuel. That helped by a decently flowing HPFP and 600HP on the DI "factory" system is at reach with the supporting mods.

[spikespencer]

Originally Posted by g00s3y These are $359, how is that cheaper than autotech?

There still seem to be a few people on the forum who still drive these cars. I've been putting a lot of miles on mine since I got it so I'm at 67k and hope to keep it for another 150k.

If you buy them straight off the site it's not any cheaper. eBay Best Offer resulted in a $270USD new direct from the company price with free shipping through DHL (got to Cincinnati in less than a day after purchase). I don't think it will be here this weekend but hopefully by next week I'll have it installed.

[2008mazdaspeed3!]

Please let us know the results.

[spikespencer]

It arrives today! Only problem is it will probably have to wait until this weekend to install. I was hoping it would get here this last weekend since I had everything torn apart for an EGR delete, Coolant bypass and a valve cleaning--that was one of the worst experiences working on a car in my life by the way, walnut shells did very little to help so I spent hours scraping oily carbon off manually by hand. However, I don't think I'm going to have the downtime to get it done any sooner. The worst part about working on the daily.

[Bexar]

Originally Posted by spikespencer It arrives today! Only problem is it will probably have to wait until this weekend to install. I was hoping it would get here this last weekend since I had everything torn apart for an EGR delete, Coolant bypass and a valve cleaning--that was one of the worst experiences working on a car in my life by the way, walnut shells did very little to help so I spent hours scraping oily carbon off manually by hand. However, I don't think I'm going to have the downtime to get it done any sooner. The worst part about working on the daily.

Post some pics when you get the internals....and yeah fucking around with a dd is dangerous, especially when work depends on it like myself. I need to do EGR/bypass/valves too ....

[spikespencer]

Originally Posted by Bexar Post some pics when you get the internals....and yeah fucking around with a dd is dangerous, especially when work depends on it like myself. I need to do EGR/bypass/valves too ....

I'll try and get some better pics later but the unit feels solid and the tolerances tight. Honestly if I could see anything concerning about it I wouldn't even chance it but it looks like the stage 1 pictures above. Packing was insane, they could have shipped a Fabergé egg in the same packing with no fears across the 6,000 mile journey.

I have a few backup vehicles that are less suited to daily driving but work fine, such as my Mazda B2600i I picked up for $350 a couple of years ago and only now got around to changing the fluids on...The thing is a beast and surprisingly fun to drive though I just use it to haul stuff and doesn't do great with stop and go traffic. The Harley the GSXR but those are not great for carpooling with my wife 30 miles every day only once or twice a week.

Valves are a must you would not believe how bad they can get. The dealership did them under warranty last time only 30k ago and I don't know how that thing was running. I feel like I still didn't get them as clean as I wanted but wasn't going to spend days on it. Hopefully the EGR delete will prevent further issues.

I think I'm going to hold off on doing the internals until the AccessPort I ordered gets here, I've been holding off on getting one until I could find one less than $300. I'm not a huge fan of the CEL being on all the time from the EGR delete so, the AP is a must now.

[MaxSpeed13]

I have been following this thread as i am curious. That does look like some really good packaging for sure. I also do like the fact that they have a warranty on the product. Will keep an eye out for your update.

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[WAMBUSHHHH!]

Originally Posted by spikespencer I think I'm going to hold off on doing the internals until the AccessPort I ordered gets here, I've been holding off on getting one until I could find one less than $300. I'm not a huge fan of the CEL being on all the time from the EGR delete so, the AP is a must now.

Yes, good plan. While it's not a requirement to have a monitoring solution for installing internals, its highly recommended since you won't have any way of knowing for sure if everything was installed correctly and working properly. As a cheaper alternative, you can try using the torque app if you wanted to keep saving up for an AP.

[GettaJaab]

Originally Posted by g00s3y This platform is on life support. More options for hpfp internals doesn't help anyone. These are $359, how is that cheaper than autotech?

Your mom's on life support.

[mituc]

Originally Posted by GettaJaab Your mom's on life support.

Be phoken realistic and show respect to other people, you're not talking to a pair of balls here but to real people which quite a bit of experience. Or maybe you're talking with your chin against a pair of balls, I don't know... but do it somewhere else.

[5doorsoffury]

Originally Posted by GettaJaab Your mom's on life support.

You could of done better then that... You literally just stuck "your mom" in front of what he said. You must be very sophisticated in an argument.

You could of said your mom is so old her dildo is on life support.
Your mom is so fat her shoes are on life support.
Maby i fucked your mom so hard she is on life support.

Very basic but affective. Next time you want to spout a yo mama joke take a minute and think before you speak.

[MaxSpeed13]

Any update on install OP?

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[g00s3y]

Originally Posted by GettaJaab Your mom's on life support.

Too bad they didn't take you off life support when you came out of your mothers diseased vagina 3 months prematurely from all the crack and cock she constantly took while pregnant with you. Trying as hard as possible to remove the worthless little shit that would be ruining her blue waffle of a vagina, and her already worthless life. Knowing you would be nothing more than a financial drain on her alcohol/drug money (aka child support) she gets every month from your dad who divorced the cum guzzling slut.