Has anyone ran into this issue and what did you do?

[TORQUERULES]

I have only one E85 station near me and there is only one chain that offers E85 in the state that I know of right now. I am getting ready to do log reviews on both of my Stratified tunes to send to them. I have a 93 tune and an E85 tune (they say to fill in such a way as to be about E30).

My issue is this: My local station that has E85 has now changed its signs to Flex Fuel and the button on the pump now says "Contains a Minimum of 51% Ethanol." So I guess I no longer have true E85 available and cannot be sure what concentration I am getting.

Has anyone else ran into this? What did you do? Buy a tool to analyze your fuel to see what you are getting each time (which would prevent me from fueling the car at the pumps and force me to keep my E85 in cans), or what?

Thanks.

[SuckSqueezBangBlow]

I am curious of this as well, I was told nothing to worry about (I live in southern California our gas literally the worst).

Hey I am brown again!

[TORQUERULES]

I would think there would be a lot to worry about. You would never know if you were getting the right mixture and you stand a good chance of having too little corn to go with the tune.

[g00s3y]

You should be able to get an estimate of how off it could be, by monitoring your ltft/stft.

It wouldn't give you any ethanol % level, but you would know if it isn't an actual "full e85" pump if your trims are way off.

[Voltwings]

If i'm not mistaken, most of the times they dont just fill it up with whatever they feel like, they typically do seasonal mixes dont they? Ethanol test kits are cheap, so you could just test it once a quarter or so until you have a good idea of what blends they're running. Seems like a pain, i know, but it also really seems like the only option.

^^ monitoring trims could work too. Assuming you're only getting 50% ethanol instead of 85% you could expect to see your tune running rich.

[jtday]

Might just have to evaluate yourself. When I started getting gas at race trac I noticed the pump said the same 51% ethanol content. I think they just to that so they don't have to apply a different sticker in the summer because I noticed zero changes in trims when I used the e85 from that station.

[SuckSqueezBangBlow]

To be honest, my STFT and LTFT have not changed either from going Winter to Summer and vice-a-versa. I think you might be right, maybe just lazy insurance for not having to change the sticker.

I am scared, I have a track event 05/20/16 and plan to run my E85 map (25% mix) and afraid I am going to lean out and blow up.

[Omega]

The reason the pump says minimum 51% ethanol is because E85 mandate by DoE regulations is a minimum of 51%. That's all they're legally required to have but this is due to seasonal blends, you'll only see minimum of 51% in places where it's super cold.

The typical seasonal blends are 70/75/80/85 -- you even get a cool sheet with months/states on it to show when blends change. If you've spent any time in the E85 section there's an E85 handbook and regulations that states all of this including the 51% requirement. Unfortunately you can't find ASTM D5798 (the standard explaining the blend info) unless you buy it, I'm sure there's a copy floating around but I haven't found it.

[Justin@Freektune]

They are required to have a minimum of 51%. I would get a cheap tester and check it periodically to make sure its close to e85. But chances are, it is e85

[TORQUERULES]

Originally Posted by Justin@Freektune They are required to have a minimum of 51%. I would get a cheap tester and check it periodically to make sure its close to e85. But chances are, it is e85

Thanks. It just freaked me out when they changed their labeling completely. I hate to have to test it all the time, but I guess it is the price to pay for the extra power.

[Omega]

it made me double take too a bit ago because they used to say 70% but the stickers were updated when the new regulation passed a few years ago (4?) allowing 51% to be the new minimum.

Testers such as the quick fuel e85 tester could be had for like $20 better safe than sorry and it doesn't take long.

[TORQUERULES]

Originally Posted by Omega it made me double take too a bit ago because they used to say 70% but the stickers were updated when the new regulation passed a few years ago (4?) allowing 51% to be the new minimum. Testers such as the quick fuel e85 tester could be had for like $20 better safe than sorry and it doesn't take long.

Yea, I am going to hold off on running the E85 tune until I can get a tester.

[SuckSqueezBangBlow]

Talked to a reputable tuner on here and he says that the reduction only really affects people running full E85 (cant remember if you are). For pansies like me running only a 25% mix the reduction will only affect my levles about 2% over all.

Think I am going to just put 30% in to be safe and cover my ass...

[Funktionull]

Of all the places I've purchased E85 only one of them has ever been a sub 85 blend and that was an E78ish reading during a trip to Washington in the winter.

Everywhere else has always tested E90 ish. Buying a quick fuel tester should be part of anyone's ethanol tuning process. Knowing what you have for $20 is cheap peace of mind.

[Funktionull]

As an example. Using the 4.5 gallon mix that I run E70 would be E27 and using E85 would be E31. Which is a ~13% variance.

If I were running a 50/50 mix (8 gallons) E70 would net a total content of E40 and E85 would net E47.5 which would be an 18.75% variance.

It's simple to figure out your mixture by multiplying the gallons of ethanol by its E rating and then the gallons of regular fuel by 10. Add those numbers together and then divid by your total fuel capacity.

E85 x 4.5 =382.5. 11.4 x E10 = 114
382.5 + 114 = 496.5 ÷ 15.9 = E31.22

You can use this on the fly to alter your mix volumes to stay at your tuned Ethanol content but obviously you have to use a tester.

[TORQUERULES]

We have another station offering flex-fuel now. Unlike the first station that labels their fuel as E85 but with a possible minimum of 51%, this new station just calls their's "flex-fuel" and label it as being between 51%-83%. Crazy. They even have an E15 offered (88 octane).

[MazdaspeedKills]

This whole thread is the reason I gave up on my E85 tune dreams. Too big of a hassle to confirm appropriate ethanol levels in the fuel and not worth the potential zoom zoom boom. I'm pushing a conservative 307 hp at the wheels on standard 93 octane and only use WMI for the hot summer days. Drive to Newark, DE every 6 months or so to pickup VP Racing Ethanol barrels from their DC.

P.S. Shout out to the Jackson County OP. Let's Go Mountaineers!

[sheston]

Just go Meth and stop worrying about corn. Meth is better and if you spray as well, you only have to worry about one extra fuel. 2 gallons in every tank (better for me than 4.5 gallons E85) and spray a equivalent of D10 :-)

Side Note: I just bought one of those 14 gallon gas caddies for holding and pumping my Meth and love it. Added a air quick disconnect to I can pressurize it slightly so it "pumps" itself.

[jtday]

I just moved to Oklahoma City and e85 is faily easy to come by. But a TON of the stations here offer E10 (87 blend). Most of them advertise that their gas is ethanol free. And MANY stations around here have CNG. So strange.. The one time I've tried to get 93, it was 3.88 a gallon.......

[Funktionull]

1. Make a test bottle. $2 at Walmart in the baby section.
2. Skeet some in the tester and do all that hocus pocus shit before you pump any in the car.
3. Take result and do maths on it.
4. Put in the amount needed for tune.
5. Repeat a few times per year or until you are confident about your source. Also repeat any time you try a new source.
6. Don't try new sources. If you are traveling outside the range of your known good source, flash the 93 tune any winner would have also purchased.




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[Fstrnyou]

Originally Posted by sheston Just go Meth and stop worrying about corn.

I don't use meth or corn yet, but I was thinking the same thing. Forget corn if it's that complicated. 93 tune and meth. Call it a day.