ATP 3071r swap how to , lenny gets BT fever too

[Lex]

Enjoy it while it lasts. When it's bad here, we get maybe 1-2 days A MONTH without rain.

[rodrigo]

dude, i finally haz power to actually spin tires in the DRY and it rains like a mofo....

[cld12pk2go]

Must be Monsoon season in Socal...

[Dre]

El Nino

[Dano]

yes after hearing all of lennys weather woes I looked it up an it is infact an el nino year.

[djuosnteisn]

el nino was the summer (usually great surf), and la nina is the winter... usually dry, shitty winter here in NM and colorado..... but this lil nina is different lol. I'm gonna have lots of sick days after the new year... i can already tell.

[bova]

yeah what dj said, el nino is over.

[djuosnteisn]

YouTube - El Nino

YouTube - El Nino

[DSIT995]

THE NINO... lolz

[Dano]

ROTFL

god Farley was a funny mofo!

[rodrigo]

UPDATE*****************************


still raining .....fuck my life!

[rodrigo]

ok guys, rain is almost gone and i was able to get 6 good logs (2) 3rd gear WOT, (2) 4th gear WOT and (2) 3rd into 4th WOT.

Keep in mind right now we are calibrating MAF only I believe and WGDC is at zero , so as you guys see I hit spring pressure boost around 3200-3300 of 12.75psi and the creep to 18.5 psi by redline or so....

hopefully Christian will hook me up with some boost cuz on the bottom the car is a lil on the anemic side lol

here they are in order described

wot pull 3rd.csv

wot pull 3rd (2).csv

wot pull 4th.csv

wot pull 4th (2).csv

wot pull 3rd and 4th.csv

wot pull 3rd and 4th (2).csv

[socks]

i thought you were running 14psi?

[Dano]

are you spraying meth? Those BATS look very cool for just IC.

[Lex]

Lenny breathes out meth. Minty Fresh.

[rodrigo]

Originally Posted by socks i thought you were running 14psi?

i was but i dialed the wga preload to 12.75 in the hopes to minimize creep....which didnt do much. this map we r working on is for 16psi ebc but first we wanted to make sure no issues arose from the ebc set up

Originally Posted by Dano2010 are you spraying meth? Those BATS look very cool for just IC.

of course i am.... 100% meth do5

[Dano]

hum...I would have thought Christian would want to carve out a tune without meth before doing one with meth...

oh and on that turbo do you think you need a 7 or a 10 nozzle?

I run a 7 and AFR's start to lean out around 5.5K when the air really starts moving.

Target AFR of 11.9, with meth spaying I get 11.76 then around 5.5kish it starts to lean up and stay around 11.9.

I notice your AFRs appear to taper toward richer at RL...is that targeted?

[rodrigo]

kneegrow let me repeat..... we havent done shit to this map other than beginning to calibrate MAF and )ing out the WGDC to establish how the ebc would react, the general calibrations other than MAF were from the map I was running with mbc which was the map I was running with ko4 which was a tweaked OTS map.

the AFRs richen out because thats how OTS maps are.....they make em richer to increase safety factor I assume...? idk

as far as tuning with or without meth.... well I run meth, what can I tell u. I stated from the get go that my car had high miles and I ran meth.

as far as what nozzle idk yet man, I am not after and aggressive tune so do7 or 10 might not be needed, I might just get away with running do5 with 11.75 targets on meth and conservative timing.....idk... too early to tell.

I think MAF is pretty dead on, we ll see what christian says, and then we proceed to whatever the next step is in his method.

keep u sukkas posted

[rodrigo]

oh btw, now that the sun came out I took pics of the EBC set up....notice mbc still in place (although I just realized I should put a couple vacuum caps on it )

simple set up and works good.







now the set up is complete , tuning is the last hurdle. (hope all these pics help the next guy that wants to do this set up)

[kgb]

Nice....but may I ask sir Lenny, is their a OCC on the hose where your valve breather filter was? I remember you saying that you didn't want the oil vapor going back into the intake but decided that due to crankcase pressure or what not, you would need to revisit the breather filter idea.

..or have you answered this elsewhere...

[rodrigo]

well i liked the idea of a breather better because a) no oil will get sucked into the sri and b) no heat will be sucked into the sri.

problem was that the breather didnt evacuate crankcase pressures enough and I started leaking oil fron the valve cover....

so i went with an OCC to at least keep the oil from getting sucked back into the intake even though the hot air will..... can't win em all sometimes

[rodrigo]

and since my logging delay resulted in me getting stuck with this 0 wgdc and zerod out map all around until next week.....

looks like mbc switch a roo is needed..... 5 min hose switch LOVE IT

18-19psi creeping to 21by redline... booooya






i will actually run the same map as ebc....just crankin da boost

[SpeedSixxx]

what a purty lil MBC..

what brand?

i got the turbosmart in cabin... ugly fuck

[hnda etr]

Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx what a purty lil MBC.. what brand? i got the turbosmart in cabin... ugly fuck

FYCN Motorsports IIRC

[Dano]

Originally Posted by lenny127

hey keegrow...lovin the double ties on yo boost source.....werd

oh, and whoe whoe whoe, mofo.....happy holidayz......kneegrow...

[cpolly69]

lenny
you going to stick with the top of the turbo as your boost source when you go back?
i know many aftermarket ebcs recommend being closer to the im past all the piping/core

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by cpolly69 lenny you going to stick with the top of the turbo as your boost source when you go back? i know many aftermarket ebcs recommend being closer to the im past all the piping/core

that doesnt make much sense since it's best to have your boost source as near to the compressor as poss...

[cpolly69]

well here the instruction manuals to 2 popular aftermarket ebcs
http://justskylines.com/knowledgebas...EC_B_SPEC2.pdf

HKS EVC 6 Manual

HKS EVC 6 Manual
Get your own at Scribd or explore others:

both specify that the boost source should be at the intake manifold -
now granted the grimspeed is supposed to help the stock control - that that's a bleed system that controls what doesn't need to be there to actuate the spring so it may be different - but it's just a ?
i know when i did a mbc i got better control from a tapped cold pipe by the im over the compressor housing.....

[driver311]

Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx that doesnt make much sense since it's best to have your boost source as near to the compressor as poss...

Ive always gotten the most consistant boost running it to the intake mani., and I recommend lenny tries it to.

[SpeedSixxx]

I suggest Lenny takes darksuns hater advice and sell his car and buy a gay evo.

[aaronc7]

you really don't want the boost source on the intake manifold, post TB... it just overworks the turbo like crazy in part throttle conditions, or conditions such as driving normally going up a steep hill (high load). Purely thinking WOT performance...intake mani is fine. Pre TB, Post IC would be a good option though...but you would need to get a nipple on there somehow on the fmic pipes.

[socks]

the intake manifold is the best place to get a boost source. its the most accurate place, as, short of the combustion chamber, it is the main place you are trying to pressurize.

thats why almost every OEM puts their map sensors on the manifold.

as far as what aaron is saying, for boost control, you want it closer to the compressor housing for response time. the further you get away from the turbo for your boost source really can effect your hardwares ability to respond and make changes, whether its an mbc or solenoid.

a good rule of thumb is no more than 12-18" of vac lines from your source to your wastegate.

[rodrigo]

well let me get something straight in my head because mindless repeating of what has been told to you and then you and then you is why everyone is an expert and no one knows shit.

first off, when I discuss boost source I am talking about the line u see on the 90 degree coupler going into the mbc inlet or ebc . (just want to clarify that to make sure I am not misinterpreting what you guys are saying)

now, with that clarified. based on what I have learned from owning this car the boost source at the turbo compressor will be quicker to send input to the mbc or ebc to change boost accordingly, but having it at the intake manifold will yield a more accurate psi reading since it is closest to each cylinder and doesnt have any more pressure loss ahead.

vague example , boost source at the compressor says 20psi and maybe at the intake manifold it reads 18psi?? accounting for 2psi or so drop due to piping, fmic core etc etc ....correct?

so far I understand and seem to agree with what you guys are saying. also to add to this our map sensor is at the intake manifold so it sees its pressure and not the boost sources (assuming its at the compressor) pressure. i may also add that since the boost gauge is getting its signal from a T off the bpv vacuum line IT also sees the same intake manifold pressure.

so far we agree?

now here is the part that doesnt make too much sense from what all you guys seem to advocate. if we tune for boost say, and we are getting our readings from the map how does having a boost source at the compressor affect the tuning negatively since all of you guys seem to be in agreement that IM source is "superior"? seems to me that using a source at the compressor allows me to have quicker changes in wgdc to keep the 18psi at the manifold constant in comparison to having a line from the IM to the ebc/mbc and obviously taking longer to react.

how exactly is using a boost source from IM more accurate when the reading to the ecu is from the map sensor and not the boost source. also sean, OEM has the boost source at the turbo compressor so MAZDA seemed to think it was a better location than plumbing it from IM to the solenoid no??

I am just asking, because although I understand what you guys are hinting at , it doesn't add up exactly correct in MY understanding so I want to be educated if I am incorrect or perhaps challenge YOUR ideas of what optimal boost source location is.

I also would think that say you have a leak anywhere in between the IM and the compressor , having the boost source at the IM would cause the turbo to over spin to reach desired boost as compared to having it at the compressor and say you have the same leak in a pipe resulting in boost drop since the turbo is seeing desired boost but not the IM.

again I am just asking because although I know probably the least around here regarding turbos, before making a change or even considering it I have to understand the benefits of such a change and honestly I do not see it in what you guys suggest.

so educate away please

[Dano]

Yes I too want to know why a boost source at IM might be better. Faster response for any boost control system would seem to come from as close to the compressor as possible

[aaronc7]

Boost sag? No, you don't need EBC. - Miata Turbo Forum - Home of the turbo Mazda Miata.

another difference of having boost source at turbo compressor vs after intercooler or in intake mani after TB is the effect of having a boost leak. if you have a boost leak in standard comp outlet setting.. you will see lower boost and know something is up. if you it way at the IM or something, turbo will try to compensate over the boost leak to get the desired pressure which could way overspin the turbo or something. make sure you dont have any leaks and it wont be an issue either way obviously.

[rodrigo]

Originally Posted by aaronc7 Boost sag? No, you don't need EBC. - Miata Turbo Forum - Home of the turbo Mazda Miata. another difference of having boost source at turbo compressor vs after intercooler or in intake mani after TB is the effect of having a boost leak. if you have a boost leak in standard comp outlet setting.. you will see lower boost and know something is up. if you it way at the IM or something, turbo will try to compensate over the boost leak to get the desired pressure which could way overspin the turbo or something. make sure you dont have any leaks and it wont be an issue either way obviously.

"I also would think that say you have a leak anywhere in between the IM and the compressor , having the boost source at the IM would cause the turbo to over spin to reach desired boost as compared to having it at the compressor and say you have the same leak in a pipe resulting in boost drop since the turbo is seeing desired boost but not the IM."

posted that man wtf!!! haha

u also couldnt resist but to throw miata propaganda here could u!!! btw i cant see the link cuz i guess after 5 times u gotta register...eff that

[bmylez]

At the end of the day, people do it both ways and both ways work for those people. Agree to disagree 'cause everyone is right

[rodrigo]

unfortunately that is how people stay ignorant..... both ways cannot be right.... I am still waiting to understand what the advantage is on running IM boost source since the tuning is based off the map sensor and not the turbo......

[aaronc7]

ebc its based off map sensor which is generally located and ideally located in IM

mbc, standard is compressor outlet, but anything pre TB is fine. post TB/IM is bad for reasons described above.

with mbc the MAP sensor is still used to report pressure to the ECU which is what it's tuned off of...but we are talking about boost control right now, nothing ecu related or tuning related, purely a mechanical way to control pressure.

[rodrigo]

that still doesn't address why anyone would want to put the boost source at the IM..... or anywhere but the compressor.

ebc still gets a boost signal from a mechanical function same as an mbc.... so plumbing it post IC only delays the reaction of the ebc triggering the solenoid to change wgdc....

mazda has an oem ebc... and it gets its boost source from the turbo compressor.... this cannot be a coincidence...it s fair to say that if it was more efficient to get it from he IM they would have done so.

and yes..we are strictly discussing boost control