ATP 3071r swap how to , lenny gets BT fever too

[rodrigo]

nah.... look at the boost, the logs from today are an avg of (.3 + or -) from 21psi.... that's at least 2.5 psi more than that log, I think thats just how ma shit rolls, I wouldnt be surprised, my shit with low compression prolly needs MOOOOOOAAAAR boost to accomplish what tight motors can do with less.

im good either way i think, short of switching map sensors to the bosch 3 bar I think I can accomplish my goals with:

21psi
11.7 AFR (instead of the 11.3 on the logs)
13 degrees (timing instead of the 11 on the log)

those 3 factors alone on the MBC set up (which are the latest logs) whould net me the 350ish whp I am looking for....and I seriously am content with that, that was my goal ...I am not in competition with anyone here, plenty of time in the future to get rods and pistons and have a tight fucken motor that puts out over 400.... for now eye on the ball !! 350

now if christian works his wizzardry and gets me that goal with less boost on the ebc ...well hooray for fucken me then. I seriously try to approach this with realistic goals , especially since I know how tired my motor is and how it s just not gonna produce what all you guys want to see.

p.s. on these logs tonight the car already feels slow as balls, fuck man...not even a week and already get used to it fml lol

[bmylez]

Originally Posted by lenny127 p.s. on these logs tonight the car already feels slow as balls, fuck man...not even a week and already get used to it fml lol

Law of Diminishing Returns

[aaronc7]

if that map is one I ever worked on and christian didn't change the values.. it is set to close the throttle plate anything past 21psi and boost fuel cut past 22psi....

Still waiting for someone to send me a copy of the new ATR so i can help tweak stuff for ya lenny lol. (socks i see you lurkin the thread lol)

For MBC I would just set those values to 25 or 30 or something so throttle or fuel cut never kicks in, just keep an eye on boost.

[rodrigo]

yeah, I also have a very intricate safety system implemented in battling any overboosting conditions.... double zip tied vacuum lines.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by aaronc7 if that map is one I ever worked on and christian didn't change the values.. it is set to close the throttle plate anything past 21psi and boost fuel cut past 22psi.... Still waiting for someone to send me a copy of the new ATR so i can help tweak stuff for ya lenny lol. (socks i see you lurkin the thread lol) For MBC I would just set those values to 25 or 30 or something so throttle or fuel cut never kicks in, just keep an eye on boost.

FYI, In my experience and 12pks, the Boost Limit - Throttle close does nothing, at least not immediately. I have run past that limit for over 2 seconds with no throttle close so either it takes longer than that or takes over 2PSI above that limit before anything is done.

To date I have never seen it make any changes and have exceeded the set limit many times.

Some experimentation is needed to see at what point, if at all, that limit will be imposed.

I suspect that since the OEM system is load based the boost limit tables have to be "soft" limits.

Fuel cut, on the other hand does work but again it takes a few seconds past the limit before it does anything.

I suspect, ABS load limits are imposed immediately but haven't purposefully tested them.

[rodrigo]

ok I logged 3rd gear just now with throttle position rather than pedal position.
here is what I suspect, this map has probably a lot of stuff unchanged from when aaron tweaked my load (a lil more than ots 93 fmic map s2) and this turbo seems to hit the loads that we were requesting for the ko4 pretty easily now with the 3071r and stays there..... (thats a wild guess to make it sound like i understand shit lol)

if you look at the log u will see 3200-6k basically 2.00 load across... this is FLAT!!!! the car seriously feels like an auto x wonder, has enough torque to get going but nothing that blows the tires off, yet it pulls to redline easily. I suspect once christian starts tuning me for power with the ebc I will see more load if desired.

3rd gear 3200-6800 WOT.csv

now im gonna go mount the slicks on the car and break them in around town.... fucken hoosier sprayed painted white on the sidewalls doesnt keep a low profile though lol

[m4tic]

but out the sharpie

[rodrigo]

hahaha nah.... technically they are D.O.T. so i should not be illegal with that, just with the rest of the car basically lol

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by lenny127 if you look at the log u will see 3200-6k basically 2.00 load across... this is FLAT!!!! the car seriously feels like an auto x wonder, has enough torque to get going but nothing that blows the tires off, yet it pulls to redline easily.

Now that log is what I expected to see in the previous logs.
That is, for relatively constant boost controlled with mbc, the load starts dropping off after 5200 rpm ish down to 1.68 at the end of the pull.
And the throttle plate wide open as it will go.

So I dunno why those other logs showed 200 load all the way till the end??

[rodrigo]

uhhmmmm.... they look the same lol..... byt 6k they are both around 1.85-87 on this last one and previous hahaha....

pass it to the left <------:phillyb:

[socks]

Lenny, im pretty sure the DOT on those tires is not a legal DOT classification.

I think its a classification as to what racing class the tire fits in.

As far as I know they are not a legal street tire.

[rodrigo]

haha yeah its ok sean they are off already..... I had the neighborhood looking at me funny for 30 minutes lol!!







anyways, I hopefully will crack a fucken 12 one of these days ....so I made a "make a wish foundation" thread for myself hahahhahaha

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...now-wtf-68058/

[driver311]

This thread is getting good. LOL

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by lenny127 uhhmmmm.... they look the same lol..... byt 6k they are both around 1.85-87 on this last one and previous hahaha.... pass it to the left <------:phillyb:

Huh...... dunno what I was smoking last night then....... :phillyb:

I guess multiple nights of hardly any sleep and 4.30 wakeup calls made me hallucinate.
I would have bet my life (till I just looked at them) that the logs you posted previously showed you at 200 all the way too redline....WTF!

At least now I have 2 days off and I can get some damn sleep.
Im a night owl and these 4.30am wakeups fuck me up bad, cos I cant get to sleep b4 midnight usually.
FML.

[rigor]

the only reason i see not to not run im for boost source, is the throttle body creates vacuum to the wg diafram, turning it inside out! so a lot of working the crap out of the diafram in your wg! as were at the compressor housing its boost only! it sees no vacuum
just my .02

[rodrigo]

and on that topic....anthony , do u run a one way checkvalve or something to not let vacuum enter the boost source hose? or u havent seen any ill effects of a vacuum condition when driving around town...

[rodrigo]

bump for .5 timing increase lol

[Dano]

bump that chit up mang!

[rodrigo]

bump for lets do 1 more degree across aaron lol

[Dano]

the 4 -5 K range is KR prone and I had to flatten out my timing there at 5.5 IIRC without meth...I was at 7.5 - 8 - 9 on meth.

[rodrigo]

i have no idea what without meth means...seriously my IM hasnt been dry in over 2 years. do7 nozzle shipped so im boutz to up the wet factor

[Dano]

hahahaha

so true.....I do think you'll need a 10 though if you want to increase octane enough with the meth and try to get .5 richer AFR. I could have sent you my 7 to try out...I am going H2O for the winter and will downsize to my 5 for now.

I may even get some Heet, FML, to tide me over and run 5050 until my speed shop gets their seasonal shipment of M1 next spring.

[bmylez]

.5 richer AFR? Thought you'd want to go leaner...

[Dano]

I shoot for 1 point richer but in reality it is difficult to get a Stage II WMI setup to do that without going more than 1 point richer in the early RPMs ..

Anyway he can shoot for w/e he wants but on my GT28 I run a 7 100% and can barely get .5 richer, thus my recommendation to go 10 at least on his 3071...

12pk runs a 10 on his K04 LOL...

If I had it to do over again I might try a IPW triggered [Stage III] WMI setup which should keep your AFRs spot on with regard to meth.

edit: to qualify my statements...I run a boost cut sol to reduce me to spring pressure if WMI fails...to do that you must start the progressive spray at a PSI lower than spring pressure so for me that's about 10PSI....at 10PSI and my 7 nozzle my 11.9 AFR ends up being 11.6 or even lower to start out.

anyway I THINK, an IPW triggered setup would be the best if you really want to get picky

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Dano2010 12pk runs a 10 on his K04 LOL...

Ah the hyperbole....

I merely run a puny M7.

[Dano]

man my brain is dead...I though for sure you were running a 10 which I thought was massive for the K04...but you is an engineer LOL

Well I run a 7 on my GT28 and you run a 7 on your k04 so that right there tells us a few things

1) I already knew I needed a 10 so I think you on your turbo running a 7 proves that theory.
2) Lenny on a 3071 and the air it will push will need a 10

With that said, if you look at the nozzle charts they are sized way too small IMO. For my HP it says I should run a 5 [16-20PSI or a 7 [21-25PSI] IIRC. I run 20PSI on my 7 now.

I think the chart says you don't need a 10 until you reach 550BHP and run 21+ PSI IDK

I started out with a 3 on the K04 then went BT then threw a 4 on there...nope...then ordered a 5 & 7 ...the 5 didn't drop AFR one bit...threw the 7 on and its ok but I could use a 10 but would probably need to set my endpoint PSI a bit above my actual PSI so it comes out to about a 9 as far as actuall flow.

[socks]

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go I am currently working around Columbus, OH for DuPont making Polyimide films. I have previously worked for a steel cord plant in Dyersburg, TN, a zinc smelter in Clarksville, TN, and a specialty chem company in Chattanooga, TN.

I missed this post. For DuPont, all I've done is at Fayetteville Works, where they make Nafion® plastic for fuel cells.

[rodrigo]

aaron and I are trying out different things,.... high boost vs low timing and vice versa, we added 1 degree of timing across and at 21psi I started getting KR in a few different spots (kr enabled to 7k) , running do5 100% meth . (soon as i receive the 7 nozzle im swapping)

the next thing we are trying is 22psi with back to OTS timing to see how that changes the output and the KR. the only thing else I can think of is back off on the boost and raise timing or hope the do& nozzle quiets that fucken KR on these logs as is.....

input appreciated (also I was logging eq ration and actual afr on purpose to see for myself the relationship between the two since the MAF isnt calibrated so much and I run the 5 nozzle with meth 100% which makes me about .7 richer)


datalog4.csvdatalog4.csv

[bmylez]

That's interesting that you're already getting KR and only flowing 306 g/s. Wasn't Dano flowing 327 on 93 oct with less KR? I suppose he has a bigger meth jet, so maybe that's making all the difference.

[aaronc7]

MAF FLOW IS DIRECTLY RELATED TO MAF CALIBRATION.... COMPARING 300 G/S FROM LENNYS SETUP TO THE NEXT IS NOT APPLES TO APPLES COMPARISON. IF WE ALL HAD PERFECT MAF CALIBRATIONS THEN SURE, BUT THAT IS NOT REALISTIC OR THE CASE HERE. MAF VOLTS IS PROBABLY THE BEST WE CAN DO ASSUMING STOCK MAF SIZE...BUT EVEN THEN SAME INTAKES IS ALMOST NEEDED FOR A GOOD COMPARISON. SAME GOES FOR LOAD AS MAF FLOW... MAF TABLE IS DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL SO GENERALLY ITS NOT A APPLES TO APPLES COMPARISON BETWEEN CARS. THANK YOU.

Lenny I also think you might benefit from getting ITV22 spark plugs at this point... yes running meth will lower EGTs vs running pure gas, but not nearly the same as running a god bit of water in the WI mixture (as you were previously). At this point you are running a good 100whp over stock/stock plugs.

[Dano]

shit I wish I was flowing 327...LOL I have hit 315 but average g/s is 308 @ 50 AMB I think you may be thinking about Anthony [Driver311]

Lenny, I think the bigger nozzle will remove that 1* of KR you see starting around 5.8K

As Aaron said H2O provides more cooling than meth but it is a trade off for octane.

oh and you arn't running IVT22...yes get those...you live in socal for gods sake you don't need hot plugs

g/s can only be used to measure your own improvements.

[rodrigo]

i could try them, i have a shit ton of ITV22s and 24s around along with stockers.... I personally dont believe it will make a difference plus u drop power when u go colder..... this much meth should allow me to run them...i mean we know my shit is compromised no matter what lol

as far as maf flow.... i am beginning to finally understand what all the hoopla is about and as aaron stated, a) i dont give a shit about comparing my tired shit to someone else... b) the way i figure it maybe u guys post your commanded afr and actual afr so we see what % the maf is off and then actually take away the "correction" factor of these gm/s everyone seems to swing their nuts at.

if we all have the same maf size, voltage seems to me seems a more fair equalizer .....

example....look at this log http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...-datalog32.csv

and explain to me why the gm/s are so much higher than mine yet the maf voltage isnt..... right? i think this gm/s is turning out to be like the dyno graphs and correction factors.... only relevant compared to themselves

[rodrigo]

edit********

my eq ratio vs my actual afr is on the latest logs.... keep in mind do5 100% meth makes me .7 richer so if my pea brain math is correct.

take actual AFR (plus the .7 from meth) divided by eq ratio and u get say 1.09 or w/e .... then apply that 1.09 to the maf value and u should get the zero correction factor no????

ricer math for u egg heads, but just so at least we start being a lil honest with what apples to apples actually is

[aaronc7]

Originally Posted by lenny127 i could try them, i have a shit ton of ITV22s and 24s around along with stockers.... I personally dont believe it will make a difference plus u drop power when u go colder..... this much meth should allow me to run them...i mean we know my shit is compromised no matter what lol as far as maf flow.... i am beginning to finally understand what all the hoopla is about and as aaron stated, a) i dont give a shit about comparing my tired shit to someone else... b) the way i figure it maybe u guys post your commanded afr and actual afr so we see what % the maf is off and then actually take away the "correction" factor of these gm/s everyone seems to swing their nuts at. if we all have the same maf size, voltage seems to me seems a more fair equalizer ..... example....look at this log http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...-datalog32.csv and explain to me why the gm/s are so much higher than mine yet the maf voltage isnt..... right? i think this gm/s is turning out to be like the dyno graphs and correction factors.... only relevant compared to themselves

pretty much... volts is also useful cuz it lets you know (without going and checking tables) if you are getting close to maxing the MAF out etc. Load is probably pretty close to your TQ curve is plotted out, just like how MAF flow will resemble HP curve if plotted out..but yeah in absolute terms, each car has its own "correction factor" so to speak.

But anyways, yeah lenny I'd give the 22s a shot along with the do7 nozzle...maybe do them at different times to not add 2 variables at once.

edit.. the reason your equiv (commanded) and actual are so close is because the meth and MAF not being calculated perfect, are counteracting each other...if you look at the two, they line up pretty well.

Once you add the do7 it will change it slightly...we'll have to see-- honestly i wouldnt mess with your MAF table anymore while on stock maf

[Dano]

Originally Posted by lenny127 if we all have the same maf size, voltage seems to me seems a more fair equalizer .....

^^^^^this

I max out in the 4.79vt range

[aaronc7]

I think CAIs throw a wrench into it a little bit...but yes, especially if everyone is using common SRIs I think volts is good enough for our purposes

[rodrigo]

Originally Posted by aaronc7 edit.. the reason your equiv (commanded) and actual are so close is because the meth and MAF not being calculated perfect, are counteracting each other...if you look at the two, they line up pretty well.

yes i understand this now, this is why its obvious that my MAF is off about the same value that my meth adds , which is why i wanted t log it. so others can stop worrying about 300gm/s and realize the maf is off by at least that .7 afr the meth makes me richer by

[Dano]

well fix that chit....takes 5 minutes mang....

oh....wait...mine is off by 1 point in some of the VT ranges......

n/m

[aaronc7]

like I said before lenny... let's add like 20 percent to your MAF table and get a datalog

might throw a cel but hey..based on my quick math you'll get about 370 g/s... I think even Darksun will respect that

[Dano]

hey lenny...my voltage can beat your voltage any day.....LOL