Big Turbo Oil and Coolant Line How-To

[madvillain]

First off. Before mounting turbo to the manifold, make sure you have the turbo clocked correctly. Oil drain flange facing vertically downwards, oil feed flange vertically upwards.

Starting off with the oil feed…

Biggest obstacle, the location of the banjo fitting that exits the block. It's behind the alternator, so remove the alternator and remove the oil fitting. Some are able to remove the fitting without removing the alternator, but to be honest after doing it 4 times I think it's easier to get it out of the way, especially when re-installing it to ensure you thread the bolt properly, you DO NOT want to strip it out.

To me, it's easier to just have things fabricated basically the way i've laid it out, after doing it all twice and three times its easier to just do it right rather than trying to piece together the stock lines.

This is what we're talking about:



Because of this tight location, being that the alternator when fully bolted down is about an inch or less away from the block, you don't have much flexibility in
running the line out of there. It must be a straight shot. One end of the oil feed line has curvature, which cannot be bent otherwise it will crack. It is very thin stainless steel. The other end is straight, which is originally used in that location.

Here's the stock line:



After you take all that heat wrap shit off you just have a kinky, steel line. It's not bendable, so don't get crazy with it. Now, chop it in half.

You want to use a 4an fitting. For those who don't know, an fittings (army-navy) are in units of fractions/16". So, 4an = 4/16"= 1/4", and they're similar to a pipe thread with flared ends. To me, it's easiest to chop the stock feed line, leaving about 4-5" on the straight end from cut to the banjo fitting. This will allow clearance to exit past the alternator when bolted down. Now that the cut has been made, have a 4an male fitting welded on it. This fitting will have an extremely similar inner diameter as the stock feed line.. You will end up looking like this:




4an is what is recommended for almost any turbo in terms of feed. This will provide adequate flow because the line carries decent amounts of pressure. Which brings me to my next point, Im advising having these fittings welded/brazed on for a reason. Don't half-ass the feed line and clamp hose on in-between, it will leak, and it will leak majorly. Mine was not seated properly and I started the car and lost about 3qt's in 30 seconds out of a very small leak.

Now that you have this male fitting, you will need some 4an SS braided (teflon lined) hose with female-female ends.


[ATP Part Number: CUSTOM-OIL-FEED-LINE]

How much hose will you need? It depends on the placement of your manifold and turbo, and how your turbo is clocked. On my setup (which is close but not exact to stock placement) I used exactly 20" from fitting end to fitting end from the end of the 4" stock fitting just after the block to the turbo. This SS line is relatively easy to work with in such a small size, but you still cannot make too tight of a kink with it. When it kinks, you will know, and it will leak. The SS will puncture the teflon hose inside.

On the turbo side, you will now need a fitting with a male end that will thread into the turbo, and a male end that will connect to the other end of this 4an braided line. Very Important: If you're using a BALL BEARING TURBO (just as the stock turbo is) you need a restrictor in your oil feed line! You will drown the turbo with oil which will cause it to fail. The stock oil feed line provides a restrictor in the second banjo fitting/bolt that bolts to the stock turbo, the curvy end, so be sure to keep the two bolts straight after uninstall.

***IF using a Garrett Ball Bearing Turbo (gt28, gt30, gt35, gt40, etc) the oil restrictor is actually built into the cartridge, so no need to worry about this.

Most commonly, the stock turbo side will be m12x1.5pitch female thread, so you will need to adapt male-male. This is what Garret/Precision uses for their turbos for the most part.

Ball Bearing Turbos : Must have 0.035" hole size (~1/32")
Journal Bearing Turbos: NO oil restrictor


ATP Part Number: ATP-OIL-021]

If you cannot achieve a good angle on the oil feed line on the turbo side without damaging the SS line, 4an female-male fittings can be found in 45* and 90*. If using a ball bearing turbo though, remember to retain the fitting posted above so that you have the restrictor in place. The 4an female-male fitting will be used BEFORE the restrictor, between the hose and restrictor fitting.


[ATP Part Number: ATP-FTG-017]


[ATP Part Number: ATP-FTG-016]


At this point you're done with the oil feed line. To recap, from block to turbo you will have:

Block--> Stock banjo fitting + ~4" stock line with welded 4an male --> 4an SS braided line --> 4an male --> m12x1.5 male fitting + oil restrictor (if applicable) --> turbo (female m12x1.5pitch))





Now the Oil Return line..

It is crucial that you use 10an line (10an = 10/16" = 5/8") to provide adequate flow of oil out of the turbo and back into the block. This line CANNOT have any uphill sections, at all. Because it is much larger, it is not nearly as pressurized as the feed line. If oil has to travel uphill anywhere in this line, it is likely to back-up and re-enter the turbo. This will ruin your turbo, quickly.

The biggest obstacle here is that with most stock or near stock setups (like mine) the flanges are very close to each other, providing for a short line, and therefore less flexibility. 10an SS braided hose is a mother fucker to work with, and does not bend/flex easily. If you push it too far, it will kink and ruin.

Stock line, for reference:



To get started, things are a bit easier than the feed line. Coincidentally the flange that provides the 10an male fitting that will bolt to the turbo drain is the same as the fitting that will bolt to the block in its flange construction. It looks like this:


[ATP Part Number: ATP-MS3-015]

Just be cautious if using another turbo, with my Precision the flange shape was slightly different.. however it is still easier to use one to bolt to the block and retrieve one specific to your turbo from the manufacturer like I did.

If using a Garret GT turbo, TWO of these flanged fittings will be needed; one that will bolt to the block (using the stock bolts) and one to the bottom side of the turbo (bolts should be supplied if buying new turbo) Don't forget new gaskets too:


[ATP Part Number: GRT-GSK-008]

This is what it looks like bolted up to the turbo:



Now, you have two 10an male fittings to work with. The tricky part (for me) was connecting the two smoothly using SS line without creating any uphill sections in the passage. As I mentioned before, the 10an SS braided line is hell to work with, but if you can make it work it is most recommended for heat resistance and durability.

If going the SS braided route, you will need:



[ATP Part Number: CUSTOM-OIL-RETURN-LINE]

Which you can have built with 45* ends, 90* ends, straights, one of each, etc..

Because it is such a small space to work with, everyones setup will be different. You'll have to mount the turbo up and take measurements before placing an order, because for me it was easier to use straight ended 10an hose with 10an female-male adapters on either end in 45* or 90*

High grade, very heat resistant silicon hose is also common and much easier to work with, which is what I used. I coiled a long spring inside the hose to prevent it from kinking, and it certainly makes life much easier. Just make sure it is 5/8" ID, anything smaller will restrict flow.


[ATP Part Number: ATP-OIL-024]



If going this route, ignore the above step, you will need two of these (one on turbo, one on block side):


[ATP Part Number: ATP-FLA-010]



And Two of these: One to connect to each end of the hose, and then thread into the female ends provided by the fitting posted above..


[ATP Part Number: ATP-OIL-023]




Coolant Lines:

The Stock Banjo lines coming off the turbo look like this:




There are two of them, one return, one feed. They're identical in flow specs, inner diameter, the banjo bolts are the same as well. The only difference is that they are shaped slightly differently towards the ends, to conform to the stock setup. They're fully interchangeable though.

The first time around, I actually used them backwards. They fit better this way for my setup.


If you don't feel comfortable re-running the stock lines, you can replace them with -6AN banjo's from ATP




For those of you running Journal Bearing turbos, such as myself.. Your turbo likely doesn't require a coolant flow. In this case...

Remove both hard lines from the turbo..

You will now have one male nipple open on the back of the EGR valve, and one open male nipple on the main coolant line, which goes back and makes a 90* turn into the firewall, and also extends to the front of the car under the Intake Manifold (IIRC). If you cannot locate this second nipple, its just above where you'd normally be installing an inlet on a turbo in the stock location, if that helps.

Now, connect the two together, lawl. I even used one of the stock lines. A few people have blocked both ends, which you could do. Personally, I didn't want to kill coolant flow to the EGR valve, after looking at it it seemed as though coolant would stop at the end of the valve, and have no exit. But, I was never able to track down a coolant diagram with flow directions, so I don't know for sure. I wanted to keep it as stock as possible, basically replicating the stock setup but without a turbo between the two nipples.






****Getting more specs.. will update soon and often!******

[madvillain]

Over the server crash, I definitely lost some shit..

What I need:
1) Thread Size/Pitch for STOCK Turbo Oil Feed Banjo Bolt
2) Thread Size/Pitch for STOCK Turbo Coolant Feed/Return Banjo Bolt
3) Thread Size/Pitch for GARRETT Oil Feed (is it the same as stock??)
4) Whatever else I'm missing.


Especially you guys who've installed Garrett turbos, since they're most common around here, I'd love more info for them specifically. I've only done this with two Precisions.

[06Speed6]

Originally Posted by madvillain Over the server crash, I definitely lost some shit.. What I need: 1) Thread Size/Pitch for STOCK Turbo Oil Feed Banjo Bolt 2) Thread Size/Pitch for STOCK Turbo Coolant Feed/Return Banjo Bolt 3) Thread Size/Pitch for GARRETT Oil Feed (is it the same as stock??) 4) Whatever else I'm missing. Especially you guys who've installed Garrett turbos, since they're most common around here, I'd love more info for them specifically. I've only done this with two Precisions.

1) m12x1.25?
2) m10x1.00?

Off the top of my head. Dont quote me on those lol.

[madvillain]

When you guys get down to installing your shit, feel free to PM me too if extra help is needed! I can try to help.

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 1) m12x1.25? 2) m10x1.00? Off the top of my head. Dont quote me on those lol.

Thank you, that is jogging my memory a bit. I still have one of each in the garage, when I get back into town next weekend I'll measure them and get some definite answers if no one else has them. I had done it before, but I don't remember now.

I thiiiiiiink the oil ones were m12x1.25 and the coolants were m14x1.5's

Argh, don't remember.

[MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex]

Great shit Tyler! I was pissed to see we lost this bread over the crash but I'm glad to see you saved what looks like most of the previous thread..

[Addikted To Boost]

thanks a lot man this will help a lot of people out including me when i save up for my bt.

[bnoon]

Stock oil feed banjo bolt threads are M12 1.5 pitch, NOT the more common 1.25. I've made hundreds of them into restrictor banjo bolts for the stock smokers... Oil restrictor bolt install

[madvillain]

OP sort of edited, does anyone know if the oil feed on the garrett is the same as stock? Are you Garrett guys just bolting up your stock banjos to the new turbo?

Originally Posted by bnoon Stock oil feed banjo bolt threads are M12 1.5 pitch, NOT the more common 1.25. I've made hundreds of them into restrictor banjo bolts for the stock smokers... Oil restrictor bolt install

Thank you thank you thank you!

[06Speed6]

Man I knew it was the odd pitch on the oil side but I couldnt remember if the odd pitch was 1.25 or 1.5 lol.

Maybe the m10x1.00 is the oil feed banjo on the block, i remember that one was really hard to find.

+1 on the coolant feed on the top of the turbo being m14, I remember that now.

[madvillain]

Can I haz sticky on this? It makes me feel important that way.

[NJSPEED3]

ATP has all the needed fittings for garret turbos with specs if needed.

[rodrigo]

Originally Posted by NJSPEED3 ATP has all the needed fittings for garret turbos with specs if needed.

troof.com


my turbo is completely fitted with stainless steel braided lines and AN fittings , everything from ATP

[06Speed6]

I think its worth a sticky... I wish this info was around when I did all this because buying the wrong fittings gets expensive quick lol.

[cageyvet]

the oil feed line can be done much easier, simply cut off the banjo bolt from the stock feed line and use a compression fitting. Here's an example of what it should look like except the male piece should be an elbow.

http://www.scary-terry.com/ggshooter/comp_fitting.jpg

[pearl_ms3]

so you said "Very Important: If you're using a BALL BEARING TURBO (just as the stock turbo is) you need a restrictor in your oil feed line! You will drown the turbo with oil which will cause it to fail. The stock oil feed line provides a restrictor in the second banjo fitting/bolt that bolts to the stock turbo, the curvy end, so be sure to keep the two bolts straight after uninstall."

since im using the stock line i wouldnt need the atp oil restrictor? i have a gt3076 bb .82 ar v-band. also will the stock line flow enough oil the bigger turbo? and what size line for coolant return?

[bmylez]

Originally Posted by pearl_ms3 since im using the stock line i wouldnt need the atp oil restrictor? i have a gt3076 bb .82 ar v-band. also will the stock line flow enough oil the bigger turbo? and what size line for coolant return?

Just because it's a bigger turbo doesn't mean it needs an increase in oil. One of the main advantages of ball bearing turbos is that you *don't* need a ton of oil like you do for journal bearings. The stock line is -4AN and it will flow more than enough oil, hence the need for a restrictor. The ATP turbos, as mentioned already, have built-in restrictors, so you're good to go. Both coolant lines are -6AN I believe.

[rodrigo]

im a bit confused about "ball bearing turbo (as the stock one is) "......

also, I didnt put shit on my ATP turbo.... it came with a diff banjo bolt for the oil feed and used it along with the 2 washers and thats it. i didnt put an restrictor pill.....

any issues there>????

[madvillain]

Shit, I forgot to update that. I had it updated before the server crash.. let me clarify.

You NEED an oil restrictor, BUT, the Garrett turbos now have a restrictor built into the feed of the cartridges themselves, so no need to worry. The work is done for you.

I'll make the change noaw.

[rodrigo]

Originally Posted by madvillain Shit, I forgot to update that. I had it updated before the server crash.. let me clarify. You NEED an oil restrictor, BUT, the Garrett turbos now have a restrictor built into the feed of the cartridges themselves, so no need to worry. The work is done for you. I'll make the change noaw.

yes!! i can attest for that..i didnt think about it until u said so..... i clearly remember now because a few week b4 installing mine i started pre lubing it by pouring oil into the feed hole and the fucker wouldnt take hardly any cuz it had a restrictor.... so yeah it has one. thanks

[NJSPEED3]

Ahh I see my turbo I still had to purchase the oil restrictor for it. Any chance someone can post a picture of the built in restrictor on the new gt bb turbos. This would help avoid confusion.

[rodrigo]

Originally Posted by NJSPEED3 Ahh I see my turbo I still had to purchase the oil restrictor for it. Any chance someone can post a picture of the built in restrictor on the new gt bb turbos. This would help avoid confusion.

here, this isnt a pic of mine, but it looks identical to what i saw when i was putting oil droplets in there to pre lube it


oil restrictor.jpg

[pearl_ms3]

Anyone know if the return coolant lines will use the same fittings and line as oil return?

Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch 3G using Tapatalk

[NJSPEED3]

hmm my turbo looked exactly the same although Im pretty sure in the intructions from garret it mentioned needing a restrictor which I installed. ohh fawk! time to look into this!!

[rodrigo]

i did notice that the banjo bolt atp provided had smaller dimensions than the one on the ko4 originally.... idk. i doubt atp would sell a kit and omit a fucken $4.32 cent restrictor so they can then eat a shit ton of cooked chra sent back to them......

[madvillain]

Originally Posted by pearl_ms3 Anyone know if the return coolant lines will use the same fittings and line as oil return?

No, they are not the same. Oil return requires a 10an line (10/16 or 5/8") and the coolant lines are about a 6an (6/16 or 3/8") Lanny used 6an lines. Hes the only one I've seen use different ones, they look sick though. The stock banjo bolts bolt right up to the ATP turbos just as they are.

Originally Posted by NJSPEED3 hmm my turbo looked exactly the same although Im pretty sure in the intructions from garret it mentioned needing a restrictor which I installed. ohh fawk! time to look into this!!

Well, if you think about it it doesn't really matter. I believe I called ATP about this once out of curiosity. Think about it this way, if you have a garden hose going into a straw, then opening into a garden hose again and flowing out, flow is restricted at the end no mattter what. If you've got a garden hose, into a straw, back into a hose, back into a straw and out.. the flow is going to be restricted to the same level as it was in the last scenario.

I am by no means an expert when it comes to this physical/mathematical type shit, but it made sense to me when someone explained it.

[NJSPEED3]

nah im good Lenny figured it out this is what I have installed, its a flared fitting not a restrictor.

-4 size Oil inlet fitting for GT28/30/35R with built-in restrictor : atpturbo.com

[rodrigo]

yeah like gerry and i discussed in shout. this isnt an "ATP" add on..its a Garrett implementation to their turbos, common sense would dictate that most likely there was a time when the Garretts came without a built in restrictor and plenty of aficionados cooked their fucken turbos by not adding an oil restrictor.

now for the sake of half of their turbos not being returned looking like darksuns face they added a built in oil restrictor .

and yes...6AN lines for coolant...they are pretty awesome , even though i never seem them unless im underneath the car..

wish we had front mounted turbos.

[bmylez]

Meh, top mount is close enough . Change over to the dark side...

[pearl_ms3]

so coolant is 6an. do i use 2 of theese on the coolant like the oil return?


of 2 of theese?

[madvillain]

For the coolant lines, you could do like I posted in my post - the very very last picture - with the banjo bolts, or you could do some braided lines such as the bottom one that you posted. Unlike the oil return on the turbo/block, there is no mount, so the first flanged fitting you posted wouldn't work.

[pearl_ms3]

i went out in the 20 degree cold and snow. jacked the car up and now i get it lol. do you think i would be ok to drive the car 40 miles with no downpipe? and i can reuse the stock coolant return? and what size is the other black line u used for the return?

[rodrigo]

return rubber is the high temp 3/8 hose from atp

check out this post and look through the pics. this is how i set up my turbo...everything i got is from atp

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...59/#post603831

[pearl_ms3]

think i got everything.

GRT-GSK-008 Oil Return Gasket - GT Series 2 $3.00 $6.00
CUSTOM-OIL-DRAIN-LINE Custom Oil Return Line Built to Order #10 (-10) size steel braided 1 $12.00 $12.00
END1: STRAIGHT $8.00 $8.00
END2: 45DEGREE $15.00 $15.00
LENGTH: 12 $9.00 $9.00
ATP-FLA-019 Oil Return Flange with integrated -10 Flare for GT15 Through GT35R 2 $29.00 $58.00
GRT-GSK-007 Oil Return Gasket - T3 or T04 2 $1.65 $3.30
GRT-GSK-005 T3 Inlet Gasket 1 $8.00 $8.00
ATP-FTG-025 3/8" Hose, Black, Re-inforced Rubber, 300psi, 3/8" barb or -6 pushlock 1 $6.95 $6.95
ATP-FTG-004 14mm Banjo Fitting Set for coolant lines - 3/8" Barb 1 $18.00 $18.00
Shipping: FedEx 2day: $14.24
Sales Tax: $0.00
Total: $158.4

[turd burglar]

so for garrett/precision turbos whats the correct fitment for the feed on the turbo end, would a 1/4 npt to -4an work?

[madvillain]

To be honest I can't remember entirely. I used an m12 x 1.5 fitting if I remember correctly. Is this for your 5557? Call Precision to make sure, and let me know what you find out. It's been so long now I don't remember for sure.

[turd burglar]

Its actually a 1/8" npt to -4an fitting on the 5557. Also, i have a generic -10an oil drian fitting and it fits my pte, so the t4 must just be a different size if the atp one didnt quite fit for ya

[Rayd]

Apologies for resurrecting this thread but I would like to confirm with the OP a couple of things.
You mentioned the GT (and GTX series) turbos have a restrictor built in them and don't need a pre turbo restrictor, has this been confirmed? Because many people seem to be using one.
And you say to use a -4an oil feed line, but some vendors and others are using -3an, which should I use to prevent oil drowning/ starvation ?

[mau7uk]

What length are those oil/coolant feed lines?

[BoostedRide]

Rather than modify the stock oil line, will this line from RPM Store work for a BNR S3 swap?
Kozmic Motorsports Oil Feed Line Kit for Mazdaspeed 3 / 6 / CX-7 #K27 MS OFL - Revolution Performance Motorsports!

[nosfidel]

Just checking some post that can help with the turbocharger replacement of my CX 7