That Dankai

[Krystorr]

Any of you getting into that Dankai from CS?

[Pu Manchu]

not a chance.

[Djohns]

I’d rather not have to deal with a v2 or v3. And wayyyyyy overpriced.

[JSmith]

Originally Posted by Djohns I’d rather not have to deal with a v2 or v3. And wayyyyyy overpriced.

Define wayyyyyyy?

[Djohns]

Originally Posted by JSmith Define wayyyyyyy?

1.5-2k too much.

[Fstrnyou]

They should offer a Dankai 0.
A basic build that doesn't have their cams, injector seals, mild head porting, etc.

I got my long block for 500
Add 350 for machine work to block/crank
Add 900ish for rods/pistons (h-tuff rods and 2618 Pistons like the Dankai2 build)
200 for King bearings
I went all out on OEM gaskets/seals/hardware at around 1000.

Round all that up to $3000 so far.
Still need my head work done for about 300-400. Then it's time to assemble.

I'm pretty sure CS charging $2500 for additions and assembly is quite a bit excessive.
The additions includes mild head porting, which is labor intensive and could cost 500-1000 depending on where you go, and includes their $600ish cams and injector seals.

[JakeMS3]

I think what CS is doing is offering a one stop solution for the 75%ish of this community, if not more, who aren’t as mechanically inclined to handle an engine build themselves. Yes, you can get parts cheaper and source your own used long block and build it over time in a shop or your garage, but some people don’t have the time or tools to do so. Me personally, I’m an inpatient SOB so an engine build that takes anywhere from 2-8 months is not for me. Some people value their time, and if they’re willing to pay a premium for an “in stock” built engine delivered to their shop of choice, that’s their business. You also get the peace of mind knowing that the engine was built right, by a company that’s been in the MZR game for a long time, and that has the one of the best customer service teams around. I’m not saying there’s not great engine builders out there, because there is, but that comes with lots of downtime and the hopes that they’re going to back up their build if anything were to go wrong. There are some horror stories on these forums alone of people getting engines built that take an absurd amount of time or got shafted by the engine builder. I get what they’re doing and can appreciate that they’re at least still in the game of a platform that died a few years ago. We don’t have to buy all their products, but if we don’t at least show them support they could stop making any/all products for this platform and then were down one very reputable innovative vendor.

Just my $0.02, off my high horse now.

[Fstrnyou]

In addition to saving myself a few grand, I'm still left with my current engine which, at the moment, still runs "fine". Im not waiting until she blows. Whenever the build is complete, my car will only be down for a weekend, two at the most. My current running engine will get bagged up and stored in the corner somewhere...just in case I need it later.

[Pu Manchu]

Originally Posted by JakeMS3 You also get the peace of mind knowing that the engine was built right, by a company that’s been in the MZR game for a long time

lofty praise considering i've never heard of anyone that has a corksport-built longblock in their car at this point.

[Fstrnyou]

Several of the Corksport cars have Corksport engines in them.

[Djohns]

But who’s to say they weren’t made like their cams, internals, hoodscoop, battery box, map sensor, bpv, wastegate, errr what else needed a v2 that I’m forgetting?

[Fstrnyou]

Well, fortunately this is all assembly work with exception of the head porting. As long as you assemble to spec and everything goes together clean, there shouldn't be a problem.

And maybe they're charging a premium to cover themselves on the backend warranty claims. Lol.

[kTaLgsTo]

Free shipping, and an engine specific crate is nice. The price is a slight shock, but I think if I blew my engine tomorrow, I would go this route for the ease of everything.
If I was prepared like @Fstrnyou; then obviously not...

[Fstrnyou]

I did forget about free shipping.
You have to return the engine crate with your core inside. An unvented core BTW. I would venture to say that a good many engine builds won't have a good core to return.

[JakeMS3]

Originally Posted by Pu Manchu lofty praise considering i've never heard of anyone that has a corksport-built longblock in their car at this point.

Pu, you know what I meant.

Also, doesn’t speed performance make a long block that is similar in price?

[Pu Manchu]

Originally Posted by JakeMS3 Also, doesn’t speed performance make a long block that is similar in price?

at a glance, sp63 seems to charge much higher core fee and shipping fee, so overall their base level build is a similar price, but on top of that sp63 makes no promises on lead time the way corksport does.

overall, mail order is an expensive and somewhat risky way to get a built longblock.

[SaveMelMac]

I’ll give Corksport props for still pushing this dead platform, of course it’s going to be cheaper doing it yourself and all the leg work. But that is not the customer they are targeting. Having one more option for our platform can only be a good thing.
I’ve owned a few CS products over the years, some are still on the car some have been swapped out for different companies. Designing a camshaft, and bov from the ground up is no easy task especially for a small niche company. Of course it sucks if you’re the one buying a product and to have it fail.
I think my point is, at this point with this platform I’ll take any new product development and try to support those companies making them.

[Krystorr]

The insight at MSF rocks. I'd be the customer they're aiming for. I'm still new to performance mods. I grew up working on pieces of shit just to keep em running. So far, I've done all the work on the ms3, stage nothing to cobb's stage 3. Daunting for my skill level but she's running like a beast even with an ots map. I was thinking of pulling the trigger on the Dankai 2 or continuing to figure this shit out myself and finding a used mzr worth building. I don't have a lot of the tools i'd need let alone knowledge, i read here and youtube the shit outta stuff lol.

i still have no fucking clue what i'm doing but the goal is to hit 12's in the quarter while still being able to drive it daily... semi-comfortably.

Originally Posted by Krystorr The insight at MSF rocks. I'd be the customer they're aiming for. I'm still new to performance mods. I grew up working on pieces of shit just to keep em running. So far, I've done all the work on the ms3, stage nothing to cobb's stage 3. Daunting for my skill level but she's running like a beast even with an ots map. I was thinking of pulling the trigger on the Dankai 2 or continuing to figure this shit out myself and finding a used mzr worth building. I don't have a lot of the tools i'd need let alone knowledge, i read here and youtube the shit outta stuff lol. i still have no fucking clue what i'm doing but the goal is to hit 12's in the quarter while still being able to drive it daily... semi-comfortably.

maybe 13's is more realistic. beat my cousin's built cobra really. i'd be good with that. a middle-aged duel between cars we've been blabbing about since before we could reasonably afford to do shit to them.

[Thor Hammer]

Is their stage 2 "good for 700HP" block come with keyed crank and pinned cams? I've never heard of Dankai. Where are they located? is anyone running one of their builds?

[MoMS3]

Originally Posted by Thor Hammer Is their stage 2 "good for 700HP" block come with keyed crank and pinned cams? I've never heard of Dankai. Where are they located? is anyone running one of their builds?

Neither build has keyed crank or pinned cams (they don't feel its necessary when reassembled per spec). Dankai is Japanese for "Stage" so basically a different name for Stage 1/2. They're built by Corksport from what I understand, and if I had to guess, no one outside of CS is running them yet since they've been up for sale for all of a week or so.

[Fstrnyou]

My opinion, pinning/keying is for high lift cams with heavy springs. The HP number is irrelevant.

[Thor Hammer]

Originally Posted by MoMS3 Neither build has keyed crank or pinned cams (they don't feel its necessary when reassembled per spec). Dankai is Japanese for "Stage" so basically a different name for Stage 1/2. They're built by Corksport from what I understand, and if I had to guess, no one outside of CS is running them yet since they've been up for sale for all of a week or so.

OK. SP63 keys the cranks on their Stage 3 build so was curious. I've read above a certain HP in previous threads by those much more knowledgeable than I that its a good idea over a certain HP.

In a previous post in this thread someone made it out to sound like Dankai was some engine builder that's been around for a while. I must have misread that.

[sharksinspace]

Don't forget that blueprinting an engine is not a quick and painless process, so there's labor addition involved in that. Plus, as mentioned, the cams are, what, a $600 expense that none of the competition is pricing into their options? So yeah, this is going to cost a little but more. But for what you get (including, yes, the convenience of ordering an in-stock built motor to avoid months of waiting), it isn't an unfair price. Y'all just seem to have hateboners for CS.

[MD1032]

Originally Posted by JakeMS3 I think what CS is doing is offering a one stop solution for the 75%ish of this community, if not more,

Jake man you know I have a lot of respect for you and think you're an awesome dude, but I have to disagree with you here. I think what EBTEC out of Georgia offers is more appropriate for 75% of the community. Basic off the shelf Manley Platinum 2618/Manley H-tuff rods build (same as the CS Stage 2) for $4500 (last time I checked...the price may be a little more now) and they've never had an MZR build fail. They do great work and know how to build engines and their basic build has made nearly 700 whp in at least one car I am aware of. Most people do not need anything more than that.

I'm also aware Speed Solutions will build for much cheaper than CS as well. I believe their pricing is similar to EBTEC.

[sharksinspace]

lmao @Djohns;

What part of my post do you disagree with; is it that blueprinting is a time consuming process that warrants an increased labor charge, or do you dislike when people point out that when it comes to CS, all you do is shit on their new developments without giving them a chance?

[Djohns]

Originally Posted by sharksinspace lmao @Djohns; What part of my post do you disagree with; is it that blueprinting is a time consuming process that warrants an increased labor charge, or do you dislike when people point out that when it comes to CS, all you do is shit on their new developments without giving them a chance?

What part about mine do you disagree with? The fact that I pointed out a fact?

[sharksinspace]

all you have is "lol inb4v2," it's a tired shtick.

[Djohns]

Originally Posted by sharksinspace all you have is "lol inb4v2," it's a tired shtick.

Actually I have written that I feel the price point is too high. And saying in before a second version is not far out of line at all with corksports history. I really couldn’t care less if you groan me like a Whiny little baby.

[Fstrnyou]

Originally Posted by sharksinspace Don't forget that blueprinting an engine is not a quick and painless process, so there's labor addition involved in that. Plus, as mentioned, the cams are, what, a $600 expense that none of the competition is pricing into their options? So yeah, this is going to cost a little but more. But for what you get (including, yes, the convenience of ordering an in-stock built motor to avoid months of waiting), it isn't an unfair price. Y'all just seem to have hateboners for CS.

As stated, they should offer a no-frills Dankai 0.
$600 cams for a few more horsepower? I can click a couple of buttons to run more boost for free if the turbo and intercooler are up for the task requested.

And I should also note that measuring everything and assembling per the manufacturer's spec is NOT blueprinting.

[sharksinspace]

Originally Posted by Djohns Actually I have written that I feel the price point is too high. And saying in before a second version is not far out of line at all with corksports history.

then i expect to see the same standard of post from you in relation to the new BNR turbos, for example, yeah?

again, as I've attempted to point out on both forums now but you've seemingly ignored: who else offers a comparable *blueprinted* engine? that adds cost. is ebtec or anyone else using aftermarket cams? that adds cost. what other buildrr, sp63 aside, offers any sort of warranty? crate vs pallet shipping? a turnaround time as quickly as is being offered here? CS price point might be higher but it doesn't seem unjustified, all factors considered. what I haven't seen you do is adequately support your position that it is.

Originally Posted by Fstrnyou And I should also note that measuring everything and assembling per the manufacturer's spec is NOT blueprinting.

feel free to take that up as a false advertising suit, then, because they are explicitly calling these certified blueprinted.

[Djohns]

Originally Posted by sharksinspace then i expect to see the same standard of post from you in relation to the new BNR turbos, for example, yeah? again, as I've attempted to point out on both forums now but you've seemingly ignored: who else offers a comparable *blueprinted* engine? that adds cost. is ebtec or anyone lelse using aftermarket cams? that adds cost. what other buildrr, sp63 aside, offers any sort of warranty? crate vs pallet shipping? a turnaround time as quickly as is being offered here? CS price point might be higher but it doesn't seem unjustified, all factors considered. what I haven't seen you do is adequately support your position that it is. feel free to take that up as a false advertising suit, then, because they are explicitly calling these certified blueprinted.

Well let’s see, #1 you are really hung up on this blueprint thing. You don’t even know of the quality, ebtec, speedsolutions, and SP motors are doing just fine without it.
#2 corksport offering their cams is just flat out unimpressive. Their cams are nothing special so that’s a pretty useless cost.
#3 as mentioned above, ebtec has never had a failure, and I’m pretty positive neither has speedsolutions, seems like a damn good warranty to me.
#4 it does say in the fine print with CS that there may be an event in which they don’t have these in stock so you’ll be waiting.
#5 with regards to BNR, how many products has BNR burned me on? 0. How many products has CS burned me on? 3.

[sharksinspace]

Originally Posted by Fstrnyou As stated, they should offer a no-frills Dankai 0.

I agree that it'd be a good thing to offer even more options (which is overall the largest benefit of these CS engines -- more options), but not offering a base 0 version doesn't detract from the other two, to me. Who even knows, at this point; maybe they'll be willing to work with some flexibility if someone wants to omit the CS cams in favor of OEM, or do something like upgrade to ARP headstuds. My whole standpoint is that maybe we could, as a community, at least give this thing a chance before shitting all over the idea.

[sharksinspace]

Originally Posted by Djohns Well let’s see, #1 you are really hung up on this blueprint thing. You don’t even know of the quality, ebtec, speedsolutions, and SP motors are doing just fine without it. #2 corksport offering their cams is just flat out unimpressive. Their cams are nothing special so that’s a pretty useless cost. #3 as mentioned above, ebtec has never had a failure, and I’m pretty positive neither has speedsolutions, seems like a damn good warranty to me. #4 it does say in the fine print with CS that there may be an event in which they don’t have these in stock so you’ll be waiting. #5 with regards to BNR, how many products has BNR burned me on? 0. How many products has CS burned me on? 3.

1. Oh, sorry, i guess we should just ignore someone offering a certified blueprinted engine when I'm not aware of any other builders doing the same thing. NBD then. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2. That's maybe the first legitimate point I've seen you make on the topic. Adding cost for them to include the cams is fair; requiring that they be included, though, is certainly debatable because not everyone will want them. Regardless, these packages do include them and therefore you have to take that into consideration when looking at the final price.
3. No failures is great, no doubt; but that absolutely doesn't lessen the value of someone else offering a written warranty
4. They've said that no, they might not always have one on the shelf to ship out immediately but that the turn time would still be within the month. How many guys have we seen wait upwards of 6 months or more to get their built motor?
5. If we're judging solely on personal experience, I've had zero issues with the many CS parts that I've run. I guess we just negate each other, then, eh?

[Djohns]

Originally Posted by sharksinspace 1. Oh, sorry, i guess we should just ignore someone offering a certified blueprinted engine when I'm not aware of any other builders doing the same thing. NBD then. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 2. That's maybe the first legitimate point I've seen you make on the topic. Adding cost for them to include the cams is fair; requiring that they be included, though, is certainly debatable because not everyone will want them. Regardless, these packages do include them and therefore you have to take that into consideration when looking at the final price. 3. No failures is great, no doubt; but that absolutely doesn't lessen the value of someone else offering a written warranty 4. They've said that no, they might not always have one on the shelf to ship out immediately but that the turn time would still be within the month. How many guys have we seen wait upwards of 6 months or more to get their built motor? 5. If we're judging solely on personal experience, I've had zero issues with the many CS parts that I've run. I guess we just negate each other, then, eh?

Believe me I tried to like CS but getting burned on 3 products really makes it hard. Don’t get me wrong, I still have respect for them since they continue making parts and I hope these engines work out well for those who utilize them. But regardless I still think they’re pricey. I picked up a long block for $500, getting piper cams for $700, got pistons and rods for $700, machining will be $1000 since I’m getting the head ported and about $1000 for other odds and ends. That’s considerably cheaper, I get I’m doing the work but it just seems like a lot.

[sharksinspace]

I'm sorry you got burned, too; that does suck and it'd miff me too. Buy I genuinely think that CS has vastly improved quality control and testing in the last few years, and we aren't seeing issues like we used to. I think we owe Barrett a big credit for that.

I'm not trying to get all up in the feels on an emotionally driven argument, so I apologise for that. It just irks me to see how frequently the Speed community jumps into hypercritical mode on new product releases (especially from CS) before giving them a fair chance. That's how we stymie development and I don't want to see that happen, even if we are a "dead" platform.

[Fstrnyou]

Originally Posted by Djohns Believe me I tried to like CS but getting burned on 3 products really makes it hard. Don’t get me wrong, I still have respect for them since they continue making parts and I hope these engines work out well for those who utilize them. But regardless I still think they’re pricey. I picked up a long block for $500, getting piper cams for $700, got pistons and rods for $700, machining will be $1000 since I’m getting the head ported and about $1000 for other odds and ends. That’s considerably cheaper, I get I’m doing the work but it just seems like a lot.

This is my argument as well. I'll build my own, save several grand AND still have my running oldie.

I get not everyone has the resources or timeline available like I do.
If you're in a pinch and need a drop-in ready engine quickly...and a wallet to get it, I guess CS is the best option.

Also note: for every week CS is late, they refund $100.

[JakeMS3]

Originally Posted by MD1032 Jake man you know I have a lot of respect for you and think you're an awesome dude, but I have to disagree with you here. I think what EBTEC out of Georgia offers is more appropriate for 75% of the community. Basic off the shelf Manley Platinum 2618/Manley H-tuff rods build (same as the CS Stage 2) for $4500 (last time I checked...the price may be a little more now) and they've never had an MZR build fail. They do great work and know how to build engines and their basic build has made nearly 700 whp in at least one car I am aware of. Most people do not need anything more than that. I'm also aware Speed Solutions will build for much cheaper than CS as well. I believe their pricing is similar to EBTEC.

Hey what’s up brutha! No worries man but honestly I have never heard of those two vendors. That’s the thing too, is that a lot of our community doesn’t know them or the quality of their builds. CS is well known among the Mazda community so that have that to their advantage. If their engines are badass, guess we will have to wait and see. If the vendors you mentioned are building badass engines it would benefit them if they were on the forums. I’m also not really on any social media, including FB, so I could just be blind to what I haven’t seen through those outlets. I’ll definitel check them out though. I’m looking to build mine maybe next summer so seeing that CS dropped this option was good to know. I’m not gravitating towards CS for an engine as I have a local tuner in the area who I trust with my car so if they’re available to build it that would be my first choice.

Any plans to come back down in the summer?

[Fstrnyou]

Engine Motor Blueprinting | Explaining the how to basics

That's just 1 point of view, but I've read other articles stating the same thing. Like I stated earlier, measuring everything to ensure it's within spec does not make it Blueprinted.

[kTaLgsTo]

You guys and your dying platform talk
I've driven cars and been on the forum for said cars since I can remember. And EVERY forum says it's a dying platform....and yet it never dies, people still come to the forum, and vendors still support.

Yes, the speed isn't built anymore, so production DID die. But this forum isn't suffering any more than other forums in the age of Facebook.
The only way I would accept the terms 'dying' is 16 year olds are getting a hold of them since price is cheaper. But it's the way of cars. Go look at a Pontiac fiero forum, they are not dead, and there are many other cars still thriving.

[SaveMelMac]

The term dead platform refers to the car not being produced anymore, so it’s more likely to have less aftermarket support and venders just stop making parts for them anymore because they aren’t going to sell as many. I don’t think anyone was referring to the community itself. If you look at the mustang for example there are endless options for any part you can image because of millions of cars on the road and they are still making more. MS3 not so much anymore. There’s only going to be less and less everyday, getting totaled etc..