DCR Update Thread

[yang_jackson]

Originally Posted by triplejumper18 How much of this could I have Surgeline tune for? EDIT: If DCR and Cobb/Surgeline could work together and figure out the best way to tune (even for stock or minor bolt on people), there will be a lot of happy people and lots of money to be made.

+1 ^^^^ on my way home from work, i was cruisin at 70mph in 6th gear when i got a kr well above 4! i wasnt logging so i dont know exactly what the number was as it was graph mode. all i know is it was a hella huge spike. i was recently told to either drive it hard or drive it easy..... i was driving easy. the .2s and .4s dont worry me at all. its these hellacious spikes that make me paranoid all over again. i was just beginning to have a little faith, too. intake/inlet, no flashes, ap, no standback. stock ecu. thinking about calling the service dept at the dealer i bought it from. they are supposedly 'mod friendly'.

[cosmicspd3]

You should have DCR look into a new intake manifold solution. I have a friend and a shop ported/deleted the stock manifold and dyno'd before/after, no joke 20hp and much smoother afr's. But they are saying they dont know if they want to do this as, they cut the manifold in half to pnp it so its a lot of work...

[Laloosh]

theres a reason why i was idling at 14.2 the highest and cursing at high 13s in this car

Sounds like nothing new to me:
motor knocks partial throttle, been bitching about this for years
motor runs stupid lean at partial throttle/boost: bitching about it for years

This part throttle blowing bullshit...that wastn even the main concern for me being that i drove it a certain way. The problem is, slap a big turbo on this thing, yank the boost up, you dont blow, but you also make shit power.....then you try and merge into traffic and by accident see 2 psi of boost in 3rd gear and you leave 50yds of ford parts down your highway.

[SpdFreak]

Originally Posted by Laloosh then you try and merge into traffic and by accident see 2 psi of boost in 3rd gear and you leave 50yds of ford parts down your highway.

[Laloosh]

i never blew up, ive said it for years, drive in vac or dirve wot, nothing in the middle with this car

[bf360]

Originally Posted by Laloosh i never blew up, ive said it for years, drive in vac or dirve wot, nothing in the middle with this car

and yet people call me crazy for driving the way i do, yet people continue to blow up

[SpdFreak]

Originally Posted by Laloosh i never blew up, ive said it for years, drive in vac or dirve wot, nothing in the middle with this car

I didnt say i want your pictures, I want others.

[MZRDISI4]

I actually only get retard higher than 2 in VAC, it only goes down when I'm in boost.

[lidokrantz]

you can't drive at WOT or vacuum all the time in NJ....just not reality and a royal pain in the ass not to be able to drive partial throttle. My car has minor bolt-ons, TBE and SRI(That's Saul) and NO DASHHAWK to monitor. I just use my boost gauge, drive at all speeds, all rpms and at all throttle positions. I just do not hang out at the boost/vacuum line...i am in boost or vacuum...i took Laloosh's advice on this over a year ago, but the WOT part for me is half to three quarter throttle 95% of the time when hitting it in boost. In vacuum it's old man time for casual relaxed, no hassle from the police cruise....and i have been finding out, the no hassle old man driving style has it's merits. I just do not want to be hassled by the cops, which going WOT all the time will do.

[Realgib3]

Originally Posted by Laloosh theres a reason why i was idling at 14.2 the highest and cursing at high 13s in this car

This makes perfect sense and honestly I think a little richer cruising and idle AFR would do this car a lot of good, but I've read a couple recent posts about taking down the p/t timing a bit to get essentially the same results as this... Any thoughts? I mean richer AFR, retard timing, a little of both?

And off of that topic I just gotta say I'm around subies and srt's all day and this whole thing with DCR has officially excited me enough to keep my speed 3.

[mdogg]

Originally Posted by lidokrantz you can't drive at WOT or vacuum all the time in NJ....just not reality and a royal pain in the ass not to be able to drive partial throttle.

Why can't you do this in reality? Plenty of NJ guys have done exactly this just fine. It might make you go slower than you want at times, but it can be done without a doubt.

[Lex]

You folks need a really good understanding in internal combustion. Drawing the conclusion that you have to drive in vac or WOT based on the fact that people have blown up at part throttle does not make sense. You still don't know the root cause of the failures, yet you all take tips about cruising at 13 AFR.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by Lex You folks need a really good understanding in internal combustion. Drawing the conclusion that you have to drive in vac or WOT based on the fact that people have blown up at part throttle does not make sense. You still don't know the root cause of the failures, yet you all take tips about cruising at 13 AFR.

clearly the closed loop/open loop transition is where 95% cars blow. i dont think we need a "clearer understanding" about that. WOT this car doesnt blow.... except rarely, and usually there with a mechanical boosting error, especially on a big turbo.

the answer doesnt lie in driving vac/wot. but the course of action to solve some of the problems can be isolated from this fact. certainly partial throttle tuning and fueling plays a role here.

there are other inherent design flaws in the motor that weve been speculating as playing a role... but im not at liberty to discuss these at this point. the tuning and fueling of this motor are the basics as to why a motor that should hold 500whp on the stock bottom end, prefers to blow around 330whp instead.

and i say that the discussion needs to focus on that specifically.

[bf360]

Originally Posted by mdogg Why can't you do this in reality? Plenty of NJ guys have done exactly this just fine. It might make you go slower than you want at times, but it can be done without a doubt.

lol me and chris both live in jersey

[23 marine]

Originally Posted by kore2000 I don't care if it is faster, automatics suck from a fun standpoint. Other than that this is fucking great news.

My friend srt4 has DCR stroker engine/ tt turbo/ and DCR auto tranny...HE ran low 11's last night at the track...

[ATE BALLER]

Have any motors blown where the ECU was NOT messed with, flashed, piggybacked, ect.. in it's lifespan? I know a 6 blew after a weekend of dynotuning with the procede, after it was taken off and on his way back to his home town, but I'm asking about an ECU that has ALWAYS been stock. Anybody? At all?

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by 23 marine My friend srt4 has DCR stroker engine/ tt turbo/ and DCR auto tranny...HE ran low 11's last night at the track...

that shit should be better than that. what was he trapping. does he have wastegates? the hotrod doesnt run any wastegates with the tt setup. as much boost as fast as it can, then 8-9s all day long..... your buddies car should be easy into the 9-10's with that setup.

Originally Posted by ATE BALLER Have any motors blown where the ECU was NOT messed with, flashed, piggybacked, ect.. in it's lifespan? I know a 6 blew after a weekend of dynotuning with the procede, after it was taken off and on his way back to his home town, but I'm asking about an ECU that has ALWAYS been stock. Anybody? At all?

the stock ecu wants a pisston of timing and lean as hell. i doint think this is an issue of the tuning solution as it is that we all use the ems to tune wot... when wot isnt the issue with DI and never has been.

[23 marine]

Originally Posted by palerider that shit should be better than that. what was he trapping. does he have wastegates? the hotrod doesnt run any wastegates with the tt setup. as much boost as fast as it can, then 8-9s all day long..... your buddies car should be easy into the 9-10's with that setup. the stock ecu wants a pisston of timing and lean as hell. i doint think this is an issue of the tuning solution as it is that we all use the ems to tune wot... when wot isnt the issue with DI and never has been.

He got his car is tuned with an ems on pump gas only... His tt has stoker and a rebuilt stoker..11.33 - SRT Forums - SRT4, SRT6, SRT8, SRT10 & Dodge Forum

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by 23 marine He got his car is tuned with an ems on pump gas only... His tt has stoker and a rebuilt stoker..11.33 - SRT Forums - SRT4, SRT6, SRT8, SRT10 & Dodge Forum

thats his street setup? then very nice...lol 11.3@126 on pump gas. i guess wed all take that one for sure. he has the auto in there too i saw.

how long ago did he get setup?

[23 marine]

about a year ago. This is why im keeping my car now, i know you guys are gonna make our car fast...

[06Speed6]

Originally Posted by ATE BALLER Have any motors blown where the ECU was NOT messed with, flashed, piggybacked, ect.. in it's lifespan? I know a 6 blew after a weekend of dynotuning with the procede, after it was taken off and on his way back to his home town, but I'm asking about an ECU that has ALWAYS been stock. Anybody? At all?

One of the local MS6s has a probable bent rod, no tuning and its largely stock.

[lidokrantz]

Originally Posted by mdogg Why can't you do this in reality? Plenty of NJ guys have done exactly this just fine. It might make you go slower than you want at times, but it can be done without a doubt.

you guy's crack me up...so you are telling me that if not in vacuum you or anyone who drives this car is flooring it every time???? Come on dudes, if this is the case you really think any engine is not gonna have issues if going WOT this much, especially this one that must gets really hot going WOT day in and day out. If that's the case then blown engines will be common in any platform driving it that hard every day..even stock...bent rods anyone?

Originally Posted by ATE BALLER
Have any motors blown where the ECU was NOT messed with, flashed, piggybacked, ect.. in it's lifespan? I know a 6 blew after a weekend of dynotuning with the procede, after it was taken off and on his way back to his home town, but I'm asking about an ECU that has ALWAYS been stock. Anybody? At all?

Well Randy is gonna go postal with tooo much talk on blown engine theory rather then DCR updates...but after 2+ years monitoring this issue i have not seen or heard of more than a couple of stock cars blowing..heard, not documented....but it seems that 99% are moded, some ems tuned, and the boost is always turned up....and mbc have been on near stock cars that have had issues...i really do not no what the fuck is up, but stockers are not popping and neither are cars that are minimally bolted and running(driving) in balance(not going WOT on every shift)..I am not hard on my cars, and i am gonna be damned if i have to go WOT all the time...it will never happen, i would sell this car first.....but with a TBE/SRI and everything else stock engine wise, my car runs perfect and i do drive 95% partial throttle...have been from the get go. And this is not meant to be negative about going WOT, its fun and i do it once in awhile to keep it fresh and fun....doing it all the time no matter what it is takes the excitement out of it and its not special anymore....

[bf360]

randy already said that dcr thinks the motor is very strong, if that's the case it has to be an ecu issue which it is, look at the new sti's have much the same problem

you know why you don't hear of stock cars that are blown? because if its stock there's a dam good chance the person has no idea what a forum is or even cares to come on here, I was at a service center getting something looked at and I saw a cx7 with the head on the ground and only thing left in the car was the block, im sure that person isn't on a forum

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by bf360 randy already said that dcr thinks the motor is very strong, if that's the case it has to be an ecu issue which it is, look at the new sti's have much the same problem you know why you don't hear of stock cars that are blown? because if its stock there's a dam good chance the person has no idea what a forum is or even cares to come on here, I was at a service center getting something looked at and I saw a cx7 with the head on the ground and only thing left in the car was the block, im sure that person isn't on a forum

there is a weakness in this motor that has darrells jaw dropping. and its something that has never been discussed here before.
BUT... he also stressed that the internals themselves are extremely strong. forged rods, heavier than the caliber rods, forged crank, big thick 2.3l block... he still believes there is NO reason that we should be stuck where we are at except for fuel and tuning. Nobody has tuned this car for closed loop until now. And the DI SUCKS for power and safety people. Its not a system designed for 400whp and above. its there for emissions, fuel mileage, and quick torque....

[smakdown61]

Originally Posted by palerider there is a weakness in this motor that has darrells jaw dropping. and its something that has never been discussed here before. BUT... he also stressed that the internals themselves are extremely strong. forged rods, heavier than the caliber rods, forged crank, big thick 2.3l block... he still believes there is NO reason that we should be stuck where we are at except for fuel and tuning. Nobody has tuned this car for closed loop until now. And the DI SUCKS for power and safety people. Its not a system designed for 400whp and above. its there for emissions, fuel mileage, and quick torque....

So when are we gonna hear about this jaw dropping issue....lol its like seeing a promo for the 6pm news: "This brand of bread bought in the supermarket could KILL YOU....find out what brand by tuning in tonight!"

[SpdFreak]

Subbed for the jaw dropping weakness.

Is it injector/fuel related?

[triplejumper18]

Originally Posted by palerider there is a weakness in this motor that has darrells jaw dropping. and its something that has never been discussed here before. BUT... he also stressed that the internals themselves are extremely strong. forged rods, heavier than the caliber rods, forged crank, big thick 2.3l block... he still believes there is NO reason that we should be stuck where we are at except for fuel and tuning. Nobody has tuned this car for closed loop until now. And the DI SUCKS for power and safety people. Its not a system designed for 400whp and above. its there for emissions, fuel mileage, and quick torque....

Is this weakness something that is correctable? If so, how major of a fix?

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by smakdown61 So when are we gonna hear about this jaw dropping issue....lol its like seeing a promo for the 6pm news: "This brand of bread bought in the supermarket could KILL YOU....find out what brand by tuning in tonight!"

you wont. im not allowed to discuss it now, and i doubt i ever will. every guy who builds this engine is gonna form opinions about certain things, and their fixes, choices for internals, machining, etc is gonna be the difference in the end product they produce.
darrells motors will...
1. make the most power
2. be offered with a warranty
dont worry so much about the rest of it.

In the meantime... the discussion of our cars as a whole should go back to the key points ive already raised. if we knew 2 years ago where we would be stuck today... the opinion would have been centered 99% on what the fuck is going on with tuning and fuel.

the fact that for the last 2 years weve gone of on all these tangents is ridiculous. for an outsider to show up with his first impressions in tow. the solution appears clear. things happen on this motor for the same reasons they happen on all the others. lets not try to make this rocket science here. its a simple solution... not some hard, secret one that we just havent stumbled on yet. all the concepts being bantered around here lately seems rather ridiculous having spent so much time in discussions with darrell lately.

[socks]

I wouldnt expect an answer to that, until some sort of announcement is made, IF an announcement is made.

I had previously noticed/questioned it, but didnt put 2 and 2 together about the severity of it until i was sitting down with darrell about it.

[bf360]

is it possible to have a fix for this flaw, or is it something that can only be done/or only worth it when you build it?

[phailerider]

come on guys... you heads are all fucked up. knock it off...lol this motor will make power, and we all should be optimistic. and once we accomplish what we hope to, we'll share all sorts of neat stuff.
all you dudes want to do is focus on the same old doom and gloom. its a 4cyl motor... it wasnt designed for 500whp. theres all sorts of little things than can be upgraded/ improved when we build it.

[JMEngineer]

I bet it's the power windows.

[JMEngineer]

But seriously, I'm worried about crank walk. Tell Darrell I want a good fix for that ASAP.

[triplejumper18]

Originally Posted by palerider come on guys... you heads are all fucked up. knock it off...lol this motor will make power, and we all should be optimistic. and once we accomplish what we hope to, we'll share all sorts of neat stuff. all you dudes want to do is focus on the same old doom and gloom. its a 4cyl motor... it wasnt designed for 500whp. theres all sorts of little things than can be upgraded/ improved when we build it.

Well, there are more guys wanting to run safe with a couple bolt ons than guys wanting 500whp.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by triplejumper18 Well, there are more guys wanting to run safe with a couple bolt ons than guys wanting 500whp.

hypothetical scenario for a second......what do all you guys think darrell would say if i asked him this.

darrell....how many srt4 motors would blow, if..
we swapped heads, and used our di system on them and eliminated the pi
ran them at 14:1 ALL THE TIME, even during spool up and partial load under boost
advanced timing a bunch
and then tried to run 320-330+whp and above with this configuration

guess what his answer would be? guess what hed say about all that? do you have to be darrell cox to know the answer?

[Deadman]

<-- fully bolted no cats nada... car doesn't smoke, doesn't knock... runs flawless

I will be this way until DCR comes through and then head down that path....

[socks]

randy, were the head pictures ever posted? i was excited when i saw the work being done.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by Speed3shon randy, were the head pictures ever posted? i was excited when i saw the work being done.

dey be comin man.

[boosted3]

Originally Posted by palerider you wont. im not allowed to discuss it now, and i doubt i ever will. every guy who builds this engine is gonna form opinions about certain things, and their fixes, choices for internals, machining, etc is gonna be the difference in the end product they produce. darrells motors will... 1. make the most power 2. be offered with a warranty dont worry so much about the rest of it. In the meantime... the discussion of our cars as a whole should go back to the key points ive already raised. if we knew 2 years ago where we would be stuck today... the opinion would have been centered 99% on what the fuck is going on with tuning and fuel. the fact that for the last 2 years weve gone of on all these tangents is ridiculous. for an outsider to show up with his first impressions in tow. the solution appears clear. things happen on this motor for the same reasons they happen on all the others. lets not try to make this rocket science here. its a simple solution... not some hard, secret one that we just havent stumbled on yet. all the concepts being bantered around here lately seems rather ridiculous having spent so much time in discussions with darrell lately.

so basically there tearign this motor apart and finding the flaws but u guys aint gona tell anybody unless we get a motor built by dcr.Thats kinda gay if that what it really sounds like.That dosent benefit anyone.

[JMEngineer]

I wish you guys were closer to Cincinnati. I'd probably offer to do some work for free just to come in and see everything that's going on.