I need some help with clearing up myths/opinions on how to drive this thing.

[Smokehouse]

Ok...I've read many opinions on how drive this car and thought I'd start a thread on other's thoughts on this. It is no secret this is my first turbo car and the first 4cyl I've had in years. With that said, it seems that pushing it into boost at low RPM's and in gears 5 or 6 is a bad idea...


Right?


Having owned higher hp V8's when I needed to pass or go up a hill, I just left it in the gear it was in and relied on the lower range torque to get me through it, I never had a problem doing that. Am I correct that this is a bad idea with this car? I've read things such as "May God have mercy on those that boost in 5th gear"...when raking through the gears it's common for me to push it in 3d, 4th and then into 5th pulling strong boost the entire time. Is that a bad thing? Or is it boosting in low RPMs that's bad, say in 5th or 6th gear cruising on the highway. I'm just trying to clear this up for my peace of mind.

Please forgive my ignorance, I'm just not accustomed to having a high rev engine...hell, most of my cars in the past had a 6K redline and pushing it above 5K was useless. My GTO would cruise at 1500 RPM in 6th through town. I've made a habit of keeping the RPM's higher on my MS3 by downshifting more often that I have in the past (passing/uphill)...I have to keep telling myself it's ok, I'm not used to that sound yet I guess.

[SSinstaller]

There are really only two rules and they're pretty simple.

1) Part throttle boost is VERY bad. Don't do it! Downshift, or go WOT.
2) Don't go WOT below 3000 rpm.

If you don't have a full throttle flash, there is no need to take this motor past 5500rpms, but your not going to hurt anything, you just won't make more power..

I ran fully bolted for two years with no upgraded HPFP, and my motor was running perfect before I pulled it for the build..

[Smokehouse]

Originally Posted by SSinstaller There are really only two rules and they're pretty simple. 1) Part throttle boost is VERY bad. Don't do it! Downshift, or go WOT. 2) Don't go WOT below 3000 rpm. If you don't have a full throttle flash, there is no need to take this motor past 5500rpms, but your not going to hurt anything, you just won't make more power.. I ran fully bolted for two years with no upgraded HPFP, and my motor was running perfect before I pulled it for the build..

I can see that but one thing still confuses me...either I have one heavy ass foot or this thing seems to boost nearly all the time. Now, with that said, define boost. I'll have my Dashhawk soon so I'll actually be able to watch my boost in real time. Is boost any spooling of the turbo whatsoever (slight, faint hiss)...or actually building boost like when in hard acceleration/WOT (say 10+ PSI)? If any turbo spool is boost than it seems pretty hard to avoid it other than driving like a 80 year old woman...any kind of acceleration at all and the turbo seems to spool at least a little bit, my SRI might be sending me false signals though.

And as for the 3K thing...You're saying never dump the pedal in lower than 3K RPM's?

Interesting.

If your in a situation where downshifting is not an option (say in second and 1st is no good) will you just ease on the throttle and then let it rip at around 3K?


Again...sorry if this stuff seems stupid, this really is new territory for me.

[phillyb]

well duh, you drive it up, on, and OVER the ramps

[phillyb]

jesus christ i just couldn't resist that one.
there is too much load put on the engine at low rpm and wot.

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by Smokehouse I can see that but one thing still confuses me...either I have one heavy ass foot or this thing seems to boost nearly all the time. Now, with that said, define boost. I'll have my Dashhawk soon so I'll actually be able to watch my boost in real time. Is boost any spooling of the turbo whatsoever (slight, faint hiss)...or actually building boost like when in hard acceleration/WOT (say 10+ PSI)? If any turbo spool is boost than it seems pretty hard to avoid it other than driving like a 80 year old woman...any kind of acceleration at all and the turbo seems to spool at least a little bit, my SRI might be sending me false signals though. And as for the 3K thing...You're saying never dump the pedal in lower than 3K RPM's? Interesting. If your in a situation where downshifting is not an option (say in second and 1st is no good) will you just ease on the throttle and then let it rip at around 3K? Again...sorry if this stuff seems stupid, this really is new territory for me.

Part throttle boost is when your at light throttle and you see 5~12psi, it's very bad because the ECM doesn't handle it very well; it will try to stay in closed loop. If you had a wideband, you would see the motor hitting 10~12 psi but still be near 14.7 afrs. That's very lean and very dangerous..

If your in a situation where downshifting is not an option going WOT is probably safer than easing in to the throttle(this causes part throttle boost). IMO, part throttle boost on this motor is far more dangerous than the momentary lean spot(caused by the HPFP) you might get going WOT below ~3K rpms.

[Bigbody250]

I'm kinda questioning this too... I always go part throttle into low boost while driving down the highway in 5th and 6th gear? The only problem Ive notice with that is the wastegate is extremely touchy...

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by Bigbody250 I'm kinda questioning this too... I always go part throttle into low boost while driving down the highway in 5th and 6th gear? The only problem Ive notice with that is the wastegate is extremely touchy...

Search some of the blown motor threads and you'll see that alot of them let go during that same type of driving...

[Fratman]

Just keep your foot in it

[ccann26]

really ive never had a single problem with my engine its the damn transmission that keeps f-ing with me . 43,000 miles so far If your worried don't go WOT in the dead heat of the summer and if its slow downshift and drive it hard . Heavy mods I'd look into getting built . Or another car . Like an STI drool .

Fist mods no questions asked Motor mounts !! Im on my second transmission and it has 2nd and and the shifting fork replaced at the same time the passenger motor mount got replaced . Oil was leaking out of it . when I pulled the tranny mount off it had a crack in it . If you listen to anyone on here listen to me !!! update you motor mounts should be the first thing you do . I actually had a police officer come up to me one day and ask me if I was having trouble with my motor mounts. Seems to be a common mazda problem .

[Hectik1]

I drive it everyday, anyway it suits my needs. 21k with no issues in the year I have had my 08. I feel the blown motor "issue" is literally blown out of proportion. This is the internet....a lot of important factors can be left out to make he/she like they are not at fault.

Just enjoy your car.

[ms3077]

Yeah, I part throttle boost in upper gears all the f'n time. Never had a single problem with it..I think that some are getting cars with bad factory tunes or some shit because it's not everyone having this problem.

[doubleflusher]

OK, so what needs to be done/added to make this motor do anything productive past 5,500 RPMs?

I've hit that wall a few times. It just falls flat on it's face.

[Silver Ecstasy]

5500rpm is the literally the safe limit of the stock K04 turbo. Any other tunes would be sorta unsafe for the sake of the stock turbine.

I part throttle boost all the time, and I don't have any issues.

IMO..if I have to go gentle or WOT only...wtf kind of car do we own then? Sounds like the car needs ridilin or something, and i'm not prescribing shit!

[predapio]

I drive 7 miles to work everyday. One way has lights every half mile. The other way is all highway. I don't stoplight race (well...maybe sometimes...lol). So just by driving either on
the streets or highway; I part throttle boost alot. 7600 miles and no problems.....yet...we'll see in the future...only mods are intake and mm.

[zoom1&zoom2]

Originally Posted by SilverSpeed3 I drive it everyday, anyway it suits my needs. 21k with no issues in the year I have had my 08. I feel the blown motor "issue" is literally blown out of proportion. This is the internet....a lot of important factors can be left out to make he/she like they are not at fault. Just enjoy your car.

++++1^ hear hear...well said.

[zoom1&zoom2]

Im right there with ya buddy... my other cars are a 2000 dakota r/t 5.9 v8 modded, 67 barracuda 372 v8 heavily built, 05 ram cummins with banks tuner/exhaust etc. I too am used to big 400+ ft lb torque monsters... so going to my MS6, my first 4cyl car turbo car too. It has taken some getting used to but it sure if a fun car, I really love how quickly these cars get into boost and the great torque numbers. I bought mine used with 15K miles on it, it now has 30K miles on it and basically this is what I have found.

Part throttle boosting.. I do this every single day, alot of the time I never get a chance to get the car to wide open throttle. For the most part I am used to easing into the throttle, in my dakota and barracuda if you floor it below 20 mph the tires just fry...but when I ease into the throttle on the MS6 it gets into boost and to 5500 rpm before I get the peddle to the floor. I have been doing this for 15K miles now without a hitch. I have noticed while cruising the freeway if you downshift to 5th and give it part throttle sometimes it will knock for a split second. It has happened to me about 4 or 5 times.So I try not to do that... dont run her up over 5500 rpms because the HP and tq just disappears after that..car falls on its face, so dont bother. Clutch peddle and engagement is like a pickup truck manual trans, takes a little getting used to. You'll find your style with it, just have fun and dont worry, the internet is your friend, but if your worried about anything with any car, the internet can be your worst enemy... LOL

[I<3Groceries]

I've recently noted SS's comments on my own. I've been paying close attention to my AFR lately, and I've noticed it stays stoich under part throttle and under moderate boost. The threshold is just...wrong. It scares me everytime. I try to stay under 5lbs usually, under part throttle.

[aaronc7]

I really don't freak out or worry about the part throttle stuff or low rpm boosting... and I'm basically fully bolted and have 40k miles on the car...no real issues.

I usually don't go WOT below 3k in gears 4-6, but 1-3 they are short enough if you do go WOT below 3k you're out of the low rpm range before you know it. But on the highway if I am going to pass someone, I go WOT/part throttle all the time in 6th gear.

only time i might be worried about low rpm boost/power is if you had lots of boltons done and were still on the stock FP or on the limits of the stock FP... I have meth also so that probably helps supply some low end fuel too

Sometimes I will see some KR at low rpm in boost, but I will let off and instantly go back into it and there's no KR, it seems to be some weird ECU issue than an actual issue itself?

Overall I say don't worry about it too much! especially if you only have basic mods like intake, bpv, test pipe blah blah

[bf360]

i drive religiously out of boost, try to never go more than 10vacum
And i never floor it unless im above 3000

now i feel like ive been wasting my time

[Fobio]

nothing wrong with babying the car...just do it for the right reason. I can't see any of us consistently puonding in 15PSI @ 2000RPM in 5th all the time. Just drive the car like you normally do. I've done some unholy things to the car...nasty disgusting, locked doors in a dank basement perversion...she loves it.

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by SilverSpeed3 I drive it everyday, anyway it suits my needs. 21k with no issues in the year I have had my 08. I feel the blown motor "issue" is literally blown out of proportion. This is the internet....a lot of important factors can be left out to make he/she like they are not at fault. Just enjoy your car.

^ Post of the year...

[Brettasaurus]

Originally Posted by SilverSpeed3 I drive it everyday, anyway it suits my needs. 21k with no issues in the year I have had my 08. I feel the blown motor "issue" is literally blown out of proportion. This is the internet....a lot of important factors can be left out to make he/she like they are not at fault. Just enjoy your car.

x2

[Bigbody250]

Originally Posted by zoom1&zoom2 .but when I ease into the throttle on the MS6 it gets into boost and to 5500 rpm before I get the peddle to the floor. I have been doing this for 15K miles now without a hitch. I have noticed while cruising the freeway if you downshift to 5th and give it part throttle sometimes it will knock for a split second. It has happened to me about 4 or 5 times.So I try not to do that... dont run her up over 5500 rpms because the HP and tq just disappears after that..car falls on its face, so dont bother.

Quick way to fix that is the AP!!! I "know" of a car that has over 250 whp from 4.25k past 6.5k with a peak of numbers of 295whp and 305wtq...

[Betelgeuse]

Worry about boost and a blown engine when you're modded. If you're stock, just drive the car. There is no right or wrong way. I pass in 6th all the time, usually on the highway. If you're going up a hill, it should be fairly obvious when the engine is being overworked, simply downshift. The gears are so short (and the turbo spools pretty quickly) that it's harder to bog the engine compared to some other cars.