MS6 became smoke machine this AM... oh nos

[Easter Bunny]

Problem with option three it still going to be that the ring gap is too small for the heat you are generating meaning you could break another ring land easily.

Have you done enough investigating to be certain the motor is done?

[dale_gribble]

Something happened on Sunday when I was doing a 3rd WOT pull in 90F temps. All I saw in that run was a bunch of kr around 5k (2-3); it was persistent. I suspected maybe shitty gas since the engine never did this before. Then I drove Mon AM and the car immediately fouled a plug in #2 . Motor has very recently been consuming 2-3 quarts of oil between changes. Pulled #2 plug, totally oil soaked. Noticed a bunch of oil in TMIC that wasn't there before just one day before. Replaced #2 plug, started car. I saw light smoke with a blue tint at idle that would increase to quite a lot of smoke if I did a light rev. This persisted. Pulled #2 plug after just idling for 1 minute, new plug was oil fouled and soaked.

Compression in #2 read 105. This isn't recoverable in vehicle either way. It just didn't zzb.

[Dimenus]

With your power goals, I definitely think #3 is the best option.

[aviator79]

I think going with LUK clutch is a good choice as they have a good feel to it, lighter than your current OEM setup (unless you had TSB done), I guess they sell the reved TSB version, IDK. But it was a nice feeling clutch when I swapped in other MS6 I had and think it can hold 3xxhp. I hear OEM is good with fidenza but I used am OEM resurfaced FW.
I would buy a new OEM block and just tune for low 300s. I still run my BNR on 0wgdc cause I need to redo my FMIC pipes and even on spring and never WOT and no tune it feels like it will be plenty once I get things sorted.
If you have meth maybe above 330 but I am going to go fairly conservative if I ever get there.
As for the smoke maybe a piece of ring crunched in valve. If it was exhaust valve I could see that causing a ton of smoke.

[[R]usty]

@dale_gribble;

Good luck with your decision. I would probably have narrowed it down 2 or 3 as well (learning more towards 2). Let me know if you need a hand or tools when it comes times for the swap.

[SpencerC]

If you were going with option 4... this would be a better bet, no lead time, a little more cost.

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...-block-171023/

Otherwise number 3 sounds like the safe bet. Though if you can find the right local shop, number 2 is probably a better option.

[dale_gribble]

Originally Posted by Spencer@CorkSport If you were going with option 4... this would be a better bet, no lead time, a little more cost. http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...-block-171023/ Otherwise number 3 sounds like the safe bet. Though if you can find the right local shop, number 2 is probably a better option.

I briefly haggled with him, but he has that motor built to the 9s and we couldn't meet in the middle with the shipping costs. Totally fair. He's got money into that motor and it's worth it. I don't need keyed crank/camshaft, massive porting, etc.

There is a guy who has been building local MZRs for folks and has done a good job and is building a good reputation. We have been speaking this whole time since I have not made up my mind yet.

[Mazdazilla6]

Just an FYI $3,400 is for a ms6 longblock. So you get all the same old shit (new style valve cover tho), no pu pistons. IIRC the pu longblock is ~$3,800.

Also I highly doubt your rear end will go out, it's a pretty rare thing. But if you start having issues with your PTO you can pick up a used CX7 PTO for <$250.

[lilred]

STEAL JULIES CAR!

[Jeff23spl]

if losing few days isn't as bad as money, i would take time to remove the engine and remove the head to get a clear idea of the damage. This will help you for the choice between 2 and 3. But definetely a new bloc is a piece of mind if you can get a 2e gen with updated parts...

[maddocx240]

Honestly you should just do #3 . If it's only gonna be 2800 then do it. Stronger rods and pistons and call it a day. Most people can't use a motor after it blows so take advantage of the opportunity.

[dale_gribble]

I pussed and ordered a long block from MSM. Thing is in stock at Irvine and may even show up at my door tomorrow. Time ended up being the driving factor in the decision. The car is my only car and a daily driver (100 miles day round trip). You can only bum rides and borrow cars for so long. I really hate asking people for things and I get frustrated when I can't handle my own business.

The earliest I could have arranged an engine build and had it in my hands was 3-4 weeks. Now I'll have my car back on the road next week. I did buy the L3M6-02-300M which is the 'Gen 1 design' for $3k. I couldn't justify paying $700 more for the L3Y7-02-300H with the only difference (on paper) being the new pistons. The MSM guy said the Gen 1 motors do get all of the up revved parts; maybe besides pistons since those technically did come with factory tune changes for the pus.

Gonna get a decent tune on it, do a good break in, stay on top of it and I'm sure the second engine will outlive my use for the car. If it lived 8 years and 77k miles, with 1/2 of those at the hand of a 20 y/o kid and my self tuning torture, I can get at least the same. This car had low compression in #2 the day I got it so I was already at a disadvantage.

Stage 1 For Lyfe.

[Easter Bunny]

Fresh motor deserves a fresh biggerturbo..........

[Cevaes_64]

So what was the price shipped To Your door?

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk 4

[dale_gribble]

$3500

[ItsNox]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble I pussed and ordered a long block from MSM. Thing is in stock at Irvine and may even show up at my door tomorrow. Time ended up being the driving factor in the decision. The car is my only car and a daily driver (100 miles day round trip). You can only bum rides and borrow cars for so long. I really hate asking people for things and I get frustrated when I can't handle my own business. The earliest I could have arranged an engine build and had it in my hands was 3-4 weeks. Now I'll have my car back on the road next week. I did buy the L3M6-02-300M which is the 'Gen 1 design' for $3k. I couldn't justify paying $700 more for the L3Y7-02-300H with the only difference (on paper) being the new pistons. The MSM guy said the Gen 1 motors do get all of the up revved parts; maybe besides pistons since those technically did come with factory tune changes for the pus. Gonna get a decent tune on it, do a good break in, stay on top of it and I'm sure the second engine will outlive my use for the car. If it lived 8 years and 77k miles, with 1/2 of those at the hand of a 20 y/o kid and my self tuning torture, I can get at least the same. This car had low compression in #2 the day I got it so I was already at a disadvantage. Stage 1 For Lyfe.

So are you saying stage 1 on the new motor??? Meaning no BNR and TMIC & meth and all the things that make a speed fun?? Come on bro just transfer all your mods and turbo over to the new engine, just tune it down to like 300awhps. Don't go into gramps mode yet!

Sent via Tapafail

[ALPINEST4RS]

Is your block being sent back for a core?

[dale_gribble]

Originally Posted by ALPINEST4RS Is your block being sent back for a core?

No core charge or return necessary.

Originally Posted by ItsNox So are you saying stage 1 on the new motor??? Meaning no BNR and TMIC & meth and all the things that make a speed fun?? Come on bro just transfer all your mods and turbo over to the new engine, just tune it down to like 300awhps. Don't go into gramps mode yet! Sent via Tapafail

My running joke is that it doesn't matter what I put on my car, it's still Stage 1. All of my good fast bits are going on of course. I'm still going to get this guy dialed up to ~350-375whp. I'm going to have the only Stage 1 setup pulling 350+whp.

[lilred]

I'd like to watch/help with the install

[Code Monkey]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble ~350-375whp.

Zing! There we go.

[dale_gribble]

Originally Posted by lilred I'd like to watch/help with the install

Not gonna lie to you dude, I got a really good shop down here I completely trust and I negotiated a good rate for the swap + new clutch at their shop. I know I COULD do it, I just don't have the time or space. Also, I have had to do a lot of extra work on previous projects because I had to redo or forgot something and I ain't got no time fo dat.

[Lex]

Considered tossing a cheap set of forged rods in the fresh motor just in case?

[dale_gribble]

Thought has crossed my mind Lex. You think my mods/goals are still a little questionable for the stock LB setup?

For some reason, I always associated bent rods with big power or a ton of power down low ala k04 in lower rpms + timing. I thought that was one good thing about the BNR was the higher rpm more gradual power build vs. the k04 big hit at 3500; i.e. bent rods are a result of a lot of load and a lot of boost down low.

[maddocx240]

@dale_gribble; are the remanufactured long blocks any stronger than the stock mzr?

[magicka]

If you're asking about the ones from Edge, no. They're rebuilt with all OEM components.

[dale_gribble]

I was prepping patient for surgery today. I pulled the heat shield off and pulled the egt probe from the header (preturbo). Thing was oil soaked.

I am 99% sure that all of the oil is a product of a major failure in #2 and possibly a bad pcv. Motor is in Monday and surgery begins Monday.

[maddocx240]

Originally Posted by magicka If you're asking about the ones from Edge, no. They're rebuilt with all OEM components.

I would of at least thought they would use slightly stronger rods.

[Neverlift]

I went with the factory fresh route with my car. Then everything else shit the bed. Best of luck to you. Not a fun place to be in.

[dale_gribble]

Originally Posted by Neverlift I went with the factory fresh route with my car. Then everything else shit the bed. Best of luck to you. Not a fun place to be in.

Can you elaborate?

[Neverlift]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble Can you elaborate?

Got a low mile k04 (<25k), it began to smoke within 5k miles, new clutch was slipping, diff bolts sheered, something was going on in the front suspension I never got to diagnose, then got rear ended the 1 day I took it out after having it sit in my garage for a couple months due to smokey turbo. None of that applies to you. The motor from Mazda was perfect, came ready to pop and drop. The swap took a few days between a buddy and myself. You do not have to disconnect the a/c lines, just put the radiator support on zipties that freely move. Not something I would recommend doing in a weekend, as you will have to spend a few hours driving for break in (heat cycle, fluid changes, etc), but you do what you have to do.

[anavrinIV]

Just know that a swap can be done in a day with a few good hands. In a 9 hour time frame NATOR NC pulled the engine from a 6 and one from a 3, swapped transmissions and any accessories/brackets/connections that needed to be swapped (including a JMF mani), and dropped the engine from the 6 back into the 3. Both cars drove in, the 3 drove home again (6 was not meant to be operational at the end). With good hands a saturday is all you need.

Good luck with everything, I'm pulling for this car. I've been worried about my own recently and situations like this make me nervous even though everything checks out fine

[dale_gribble]

Godspeed my friend.

[skiptowncat]

#2 forged rods with gen2 pistons for longevity.

[dale_gribble]

I have decided that the drop in new motor as-is will take me and this car to the end of our journey together, whatever form and timeline that takes. I am not going any bigger than the BNR S3 nor pushing past stock fueling capability.

I just don't want to crack the factory assembled block because there is risk in that too. This motor has a warranty so I will at least ride that out. I am sure this motor will be better than the 9 year old original guy from the first year of this motor's release. This motor will have 8-9 years of updates and improved assembly techniques from Mazda I'm sure.

EDIT: Just got off of phone with MSM, motor does not have warranty when purchased through MSM.

[ItsNox]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble EDIT: Just got off of phone with MSM, motor does not have warranty when purchased through MSM.

No warranty? I'd drop those forged rods in....

[Big Dog]

No warranty? What kind of shit is that. They should give you something, even small one incase it's assembled like shit. If you can fit it into the budget I would put forged internals in it for piece of mind. I know after the motor and install labor you're at half the cars value so I feel for you on this one.

[dale_gribble]

Originally Posted by ItsNox No warranty? I'd drop those forged rods in....

It's not that easy though is it? Then I have to get a new gasket set, new rod bearings, pull the BS since it probably won't clear the aftermarket rods/studs, get the setup balanced and hope it all comes back together right and leak free from a local shop that is unfamiliar with the MZR. In my opinion, it's more of a risk letting a shop open it up and replace parts than just running a factory assembled motor.

I will be spraying meth from the get-go (after break in and base 91 tune), which will help keep things happy and I will assure a proper break-in and monitor compression as I go. I am going to run on the richer side and will be running a good tune from the start. It is what it is. I have learned a lot about the car and I know what to look out for and avoid.

I definitely appreciate the ongoing concern and advice though. It is much appreciated. A new motor is getting dropped in with a good turbo and clutch setup and it is what it is. It's badass that you guys all even give a shit enough to pipe in.

[maddocx240]

Or just drive the car to speedperf6rmanc3 and do a drop in build on your new motor next year,lol.

[Jtaylor]

Since you didn't have to ship your motor, back build it on the side on your own time and swap in once everything is ready to go.

[dale_gribble]

Originally Posted by Jtaylor Since you didn't have to ship your motor, back build it on the side on your own time and swap in once everything is ready to go.

I was thinking about that actually. Slow build, no rush and then swap in sometime in the next year and sell the long block for what I paid for it.