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 Old 05-18-2009, 06:05 AM   #1
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Default New trans

So the new MS3 has a "new" trans with taller gears, a LSD, triple syncros for 1st 2nd and 3rd, double syncros for the rest, and its bolts to our engine.

Someone seriously needs to find one of these cars, crawl under it, and snap some pics of this new trans.

If the housing is anything like the same, I bet it will bolt right in.

I wonder if they updated the shifter linkage also, someone needs to get pics of that too.
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 Old 05-18-2009, 06:10 AM   #2
 
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maybe we wont have to be in 5th by the end of the 1/4! Lol thats so sad
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 Old 05-18-2009, 10:39 AM   #3
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06Speed6,
It's the same trans with taller gears. We have the same LSD, and the same syncro's.
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 Old 05-18-2009, 11:50 AM   #4
 
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OMG this is a godsend.
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 Old 05-18-2009, 12:16 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by StreetUnitMark View Post
OMG this is a godsend.
Yeah, as soon as I heard about the taller gears in the 2010, the first thing that popped in my head was tranny swap for first gen's!!

I can't wait.

No reason to want a different LSD. Ours is plucked from the RX-8. Or so I've heard. If that's true, it should be pretty stout.
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 Old 05-18-2009, 01:08 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
06Speed6,
It's the same trans with taller gears. We have the same LSD, and the same syncro's.

So you have actually crawled under a car to look at it? It really does sound the same...
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 Old 05-18-2009, 01:08 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by StreetUnitMark View Post
OMG this is a godsend.

No shit =)
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 Old 05-18-2009, 01:15 PM   #8
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How much do you think it would cost to do this in both parts and then labor since I wouldn't trust myself with this.
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 Old 05-18-2009, 01:40 PM   #9
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taller gears ftw
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 Old 05-19-2009, 08:10 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Nazarite View Post
How much do you think it would cost to do this in both parts and then labor since I wouldn't trust myself with this.
If you have to ask...
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 Old 05-19-2009, 08:14 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by 06Speed6 View Post
If you have to ask...
I ask about everything. I'll have the money, but as this is the first car I've ever done any work on I have no idea how much anything costs.
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 Old 05-19-2009, 08:16 AM   #12
 
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This is awesome, can't wait!
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 Old 05-19-2009, 08:18 AM   #13
 
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question is how much taller ?
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 Old 05-19-2009, 08:23 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by ztuner View Post
question is how much taller ?
I'm with you. I wonder how much of an improvement it will make in 0-60 times.
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 Old 05-19-2009, 08:25 AM   #15
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.008 taller
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 Old 05-19-2009, 08:53 AM   #16
 
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we have triple syncros 1-3 and double for the rest, only diff in teh new trans is the longer gearing.
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 Old 05-19-2009, 10:45 AM   #17
 
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I wish there was a kit that we could just swap out the gears. The housing is the same right? I dont know dick about trannies.
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 Old 05-19-2009, 10:47 AM   #18
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great idea...now find a way to tune gear specific output! can that be done thru ATR?
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 Old 05-19-2009, 01:13 PM   #19
 
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Originally Posted by Fobio View Post
great idea...now find a way to tune gear specific output! can that be done thru ATR?
Can you explain what you mean? Are you refering to the way the boost is limited by gear from the factory? Changing that? <-tranny noob
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 Old 05-19-2009, 01:19 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Demi View Post
Can you explain what you mean? Are you refering to the way the boost is limited by gear from the factory? Changing that? <-tranny noob
gear-specific boost limit is just ONE of the many many things that the ECU does. there are also gear-specific load tables too...and changing the tranny, unlike a traditional car, will likely require a complementing flash for our cars...

I'm no transmission expert, but this was the first thing that came to my mind when I first read the 2010's will have taller 1st and 2nd.
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 Old 05-19-2009, 04:25 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Fobio View Post
gear-specific boost limit is just ONE of the many many things that the ECU does. there are also gear-specific load tables too...and changing the tranny, unlike a traditional car, will likely require a complementing flash for our cars...

I'm no transmission expert, but this was the first thing that came to my mind when I first read the 2010's will have taller 1st and 2nd.
Damn. I remember when if the fucking trans mated to the block, you were good to go. Damn computers.

That's an interesting point you brought up here though.
Sounds like a pain in the ass for whoever wants to tackle this one. Think about this, how would you even get the current values that are set for our trans? That's not info your gonna pull off a DashHawk. lol
What are you gonna do, call Mazda? They'll find out who you are and void your warranty just for asking!
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 Old 05-20-2009, 08:34 AM   #22
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Have Lou crack the new ECU then take the load values and plug them into your ECU.

Ide budget about $5000 for the swap, transmissions arent cheap on this car.
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 Old 05-20-2009, 10:48 AM   #23
 
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what if when you swap the tranny, u flash in the stock map from the 2010? you could somehow get that info from the maps when the car comes out or maybe just swap the ecu?
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 Old 05-20-2009, 11:34 AM   #24
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Won't be that easy, there is probably countless changes to the 2010. Just because the engine looks the same, doesn't mean mazda didn't change a few dozen part #'s and make revisions on things.

As such, just with the 09's, you can't just go flashing like crazy without careful verification first...just look at the 09's with knock issues with AP flashes. Mazda loves to fiddle.
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 Old 05-20-2009, 11:38 AM   #25
 
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They changed all of the gear ratios in the new transaxle including the final drive ratios. The resulting overall ratios (ratio of each gear X final drive ratio) are here.
Current 1st Gen gearing this is with the stock tire that is 25.7" diameter
1st 5.5mph/1000rpm = 36.8mph/6700rpm
2nd 8.66mph/1000rpm = 58.02mph/6700rpm
3rd 12.66mph/1000rpm = 84.82mph/6700rpm
4th 16.5mph/1000rpm = 110.55mph/6700rpm
5th 21.0mph/1000rpm = 140.7mph/6700rpm
6th 26.83mph/1000rpm = 179.76mph/6700rpm

2010 MS3 with the 225/40 18 tire they are planning on running 25.1" diameter
1st 5.5/1000 = 36.8/6700
2nd 9.33/1000 = 62.51/6700
3rd 13.0/1000 = 87.1/6700
4th 17.33/1000 = 116.11/6700
5th 22.83/1000 = 152.96/6700
6th 28.16/1000 = 188.67/6700

2010 MS3 with the same 25.7" tall tire as the 1st gen
1st 5.66/1000 = 37.92/6700
2nd 9.5/1000 = 63.65/6700
3rd 13.33/1000 = 89.31/6700
4th 17.66/1000 = 118.32/6700
5th 22.83/1000 = 152.96/6700
6th 28.83/1000 = 193.16/6700

So putting the 2010 trans in our cars will get you 1mph more in 1st and 5 mph more in 2nd. You need to figure out if it is worth the $$$$$$.
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 Old 05-20-2009, 12:18 PM   #26
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Then it will definitely make 0-60 faster, but not really worth it for 5k. Plus you would pretty much top out the car in 5th, there would be no point, performance-wise, for 6th gear, it would purely be for mileage.
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 Old 05-20-2009, 12:51 PM   #27
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Thats crap lol, a well modded car is still going to be in 5th at the end of the 1/4
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 Old 05-20-2009, 12:54 PM   #28
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seems like Mazda's goal was to lower the published 0 - 60 times by saving 1 shift...and complete disregard for the 1/4 mile as, you're basically limited by gearing in 4th...personally, I wouldn't mind trapping 115, but guys on here are much more ambitious than that...
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 Old 05-20-2009, 01:15 PM   #29
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Here's the thing though, we only make "fast" speed up til about 5500-6000 rpm, these #'s read to 6700 rpm, how do we know that's even gonna be effective?
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 Old 05-20-2009, 02:49 PM   #30
 
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that's why I gave you the MPH at 1000 rpm number too. If you are only going to spin your engine to 5500 then you can do the math.
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 Old 05-20-2009, 03:30 PM   #31
 
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Yeah, the only way I'm spending the time and money on a new trans is either a) I have to because I fucked mine up, b) a straight-cut dog box with tall ass gears, or c) a racing auto.

B is my prefered.
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 Old 05-20-2009, 04:00 PM   #32
 
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If you have never driven a straight cut gearbox on the street you don't want to do it. You will need ear plugs just to drive to the store to buy beer. And dog engagement boxes were never intended to be used in street cars, they need to be inspected on a regular basis and the dog rings take a real beating if the driver does not know what they are doing. Even someone that is "easy" on the box will have to replace parts on a regular basis. We have some drivers that get an entire season on a set of dog rings (about 30-35 hours of racing) and others that can't get through 2 weekends on a set so it is very much how they are used that dictates how often they need to be repaired.
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 Old 05-20-2009, 04:35 PM   #33
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First is still worthless.
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 Old 05-20-2009, 05:26 PM   #34
 
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I have a buddy up the street that has a dogbox in his wrx and has been running it on the street for a looooong time. He's never had a problem. Well, except an electrical connector rattled loose/off, but that's nothing. He drives sorta hard for the streets, but deffinately doesn't track it ever. Same here, so if I can get one to that quality, I'm down.
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 Old 05-20-2009, 05:31 PM   #35
 
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Thank god for this i was getting tired of shifting into 6th gear.
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 Old 05-20-2009, 06:10 PM   #36
 
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Originally Posted by ATE BALLER View Post
I have a buddy up the street that has a dogbox in his wrx and has been running it on the street for a looooong time. He's never had a problem. Well, except an electrical connector rattled loose/off, but that's nothing. He drives sorta hard for the streets, but deffinately doesn't track it ever. Same here, so if I can get one to that quality, I'm down.
It is straight cut gears too? The impact loads in a dog box are very high I'm impressed if he has been using one on the street for a long time. If it is straight cut gears he must be deaf by now.
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 Old 05-20-2009, 06:32 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by 06Speed6 View Post
Thats crap lol, a well modded car is still going to be in 5th at the end of the 1/4
Shit even stock I need to shift into 5th for the 1/4.. Too many damn gear changes.
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 Old 05-22-2009, 05:45 AM   #38
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He probably uses the clutch with his street dog box setup, if you are just rev matching at the track then I can see them needing to be replaced all the time.

I wouldnt run straight cut gears on the street, but I also wouldnt run 90 duro mounts either like some dumbasses I know =)
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 Old 05-22-2009, 08:58 AM   #39
 
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Neither would I, which is why I have 95s, lol
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 Old 05-27-2009, 12:17 AM   #40
 
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The 8mph in 4th would be worth it for the 1/4 mi racers. You can also buy gears by themselves from Mazda. 4th gear is only $85.63. I am not sure if there are other parts needed.
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