Oil consumption way up. Any thoughts?

[Roman-dude]

Had an oil change 3 weeks ago and just added 3.5 qts of oil to get it back to the normal level. Has never been the case before except right before this change, so it seems like the oil consumption increase is new. Had the oil tested at blackstone about a year ago and everything was normal. Tested cylinder compression this fall (while replacing the spark plugs) and all 4 were in mid-70's psi. Did notice (I think unless it's phantom) a bit of a power loss maybe 6 months ago or so. The tail pipe is black, so it's burning through the oil. The oil is Castrol 03111 GTX High Mileage 10W-40 Synthetic Blend Motor Oil.

Any ideas of what this could be? A turbo on its way out?

The car is 2008 MS3 GT with 168k.

thanks much.

[MSMS3]

You are allowing your car to get 3.5 quarts low on oil and are wondering what’s wrong? If static compression is only 70 psi across the board, you are way below the minimum. You are not going to fix this with a turbo. And, black exhaust is normal for direct injection engines.

Sorry, but you need a new or rebuilt short block, or a low mileage used engine.

[Roman-dude]

Originally Posted by MSMS3 You are allowing your car to get 3.5 quarts low on oil and are wondering what’s wrong? If static compression is only 70 psi across the board, you are way below the minimum. You are not going to fix this with a turbo. And, black exhaust is normal for direct injection engines. Sorry, but you need a new or rebuilt short block, or a low mileage used engine.

"compression is only 70 psi" - my bad - mid-170's. I remember it being inline with where it roughly had to be and fairly similar across the cylinders.

[MSMS3]

Originally Posted by Roman-dude "compression is only 70 psi" - my bad - mid-170's. I remember it being inline with where it roughly had to be and fairly similar across the cylinders.

170s is quite good at that age, but please don’t let an engine get 3.5 quarts low without knowing it. Not meaning to scold you, but really stay on top of engine maintenance.

As to why the loss, begin with a cylinder leak down test.

Are you parking in the same place? Any oil on the floor or in the under tray? What does the bottom of the engine look like? Any visible signs of leaks?

If no engine leaks and cylinder leak down is acceptable, then check for PCV valve function.

Is there oil inside the intercooler and coupler hoses? Look there too. That might help isolate the cause.

If the engine is not smoking and compression is good, your issue is likely minor.

[Roman-dude]

Originally Posted by MSMS3 170s is quite good at that age, but please don’t let an engine get 3.5 quarts low without knowing it. Not meaning to scold you, but really stay on top of engine maintenance. As to why the loss, begin with a cylinder leak down test. Are you parking in the same place? Any oil on the floor or in the under tray? What does the bottom of the engine look like? Any visible signs of leaks? If no engine leaks and cylinder leak down is acceptable, then check for PCV valve function. Is there oil inside the intercooler and coupler hoses? Look there too. That might help isolate the cause. If the engine is not smoking and compression is good, your issue is likely minor.

Thanks. From what I searched, the leak down test should take 3-4 hours, correct?

Did not see any signs of oil previously but I'll take a closer look soon.

As for not letting it get that far - totally with you. Checked oil 3 weeks after an oil change - never expected this to be the case.

thanks again

[Jeff23spl]

have you checked if the oil filter isn't leaking or the pan plug ? something doesn'T start to act strangely without any direct action....If nothing else happened but an oil change and it start using oil, i would start looking there....
If you still have the creepy oem filter that driven many 2.3 engine (turbo and non turbo) to run out of oil, i would at least get a brand new plastic cap each 2-3 change and check around for oil leaks...
If everything is ok there, i would then check turbo but....

[Roman-dude]

Originally Posted by Jeff23spl have you checked if the oil filter isn't leaking or the pan plug ? something doesn'T start to act strangely without any direct action....If nothing else happened but an oil change and it start using oil, i would start looking there.... If you still have the creepy oem filter that driven many 2.3 engine (turbo and non turbo) to run out of oil, i would at least get a brand new plastic cap each 2-3 change and check around for oil leaks... If everything is ok there, i would then check turbo but....

No leaks. I guess it's possible that it's been burning some before as well (dropping oil levels never been an issue and I just did not bother checking btn the changes) and the Blackstone report from just under a year ago did not point to any issues (somewhat higher aluminum and iron levels than a year before that but also on a somewhat longer interval than last time).

On a related note, before I start searching - any way to test turbo without taking it off?

[Jeff23spl]

3-4hr seem a bit high for the leak down....it is like replacing the spark plugs but with the added time to push air into each cylinders and rotating the crank pulley for each...
I don't have exact numbers but i imagine it could be done in less than 2 hours...

[Roman-dude]

Originally Posted by Jeff23spl 3-4hr seem a bit high for the leak down....it is like replacing the spark plugs but with the added time to push air into each cylinders and rotating the crank pulley for each... I don't have exact numbers but i imagine it could be done in less than 2 hours...

I think what you're referring to is the compression test, which I did and it gave me the ~170s figures. The leak down is blowing compressed air in.
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/do...ocID=TECH00137

Considering that the leak down is a more precise version of the compression test, and my compression was ok, it seems I may not need to do the leak one.

[MSMS3]

Originally Posted by Roman-dude I think what you're referring to is the compression test, which I did and it gave me the ~170s figures. The leak down is blowing compressed air in. https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/do...ocID=TECH00137 Considering that the leak down is a more precise version of the compression test, and my compression was ok, it seems I may not need to do the leak one.

Jeff and I know very well the difference between a static compression test and a cylinder leak down test. He was merely trying to tell you that the extra steps to get each piston to top dead cylinder, inject the compressed air and watch the gauges does not increase the time to 3-4 hours. Might add 30 minutes to one hour to the process compared to a simple static compression test alone.

You would do well to have that test done. It will help diagnose the possible source of your oil consumption.

[Roman-dude]

Originally Posted by MSMS3 Jeff and I know very well the difference between a static compression test and a cylinder leak down test. He was merely trying to tell you that the extra steps to get each piston to top dead cylinder, inject the compressed air and watch the gauges does not increase the time to 3-4 hours. Might add 30 minutes to one hour to the process compared to a simple static compression test alone. You would do well to have that test done.

Since I had no idea how long it would take, I googled and several discussions pointed to it being at least a 3 hr job. It could, of course, be that they all were wrong.

[Jeff23spl]

both are similar. leakdown call for a little more work by getting access to crank pulley to set piston position and held it....you use a little more complex gage and use compressor air instead of cranking... but, overall, work remain basic. Maybe there is some with more complex way of doing it???
Anyway, yes if compression is good, leak down should usually not return bad results but sometimes oil can increase compression reading while leakdown will point out problems....And also with low compression, leakdown will help figure out where the leak is coming from...

Originally Posted by Roman-dude Since I had no idea how long it would take, I googled and several discussions pointed to it being at least a 3 hr job. It could, of course, be that they all were wrong.

that would be much different from cars models. if you have a V engine with hidden plugs, it would get a lot longer to reach than on a dohc 4cyl engine with plugs right on top....

[Roman-dude]

Originally Posted by Jeff23spl both are similar. leakdown call for a little more work by getting access to crank pulley to set piston position and held it....you use a little more complex gage and use compressor air instead of cranking... but, overall, work remain basic. Maybe there is some with more complex way of doing it??? Anyway, yes if compression is good, leak down should usually not return bad results but sometimes oil can increase compression reading while leakdown will point out problems....And also with low compression, leakdown will help figure out where the leak is coming from... that would be much different from cars models. if you have a V engine with hidden plugs, it would get a lot longer to reach than on a dohc 4cyl engine with plugs right on top....

thanks!

[MSMS3]

Listening to where the compressed air escapes can be very useful in locating the source of a leak - cylinder head valves or seals versus the piston rings. Your oil is going somewhere.

Did you check to see if you had oil in your intercooler or the couplers? It’s normal for there to be a little, but it should not be pooling up.

[Roman-dude]

Originally Posted by MSMS3 Listening to where the compressed air escapes can be very useful in locating the source of a leak - cylinder head valves or seals versus the piston rings. Your oil is going somewhere. Did you check to see if you had oil in your intercooler or the couplers? It’s normal for there to be a little, but it should not be pooling up.

ok, but while it is going somewhere, if the compression is ok and there are no leaks that I could see so far, would it be more likely then that maybe it's burning or goes into the intercooler? What I am saying is that maybe it makes sense to check those first as more likely culprits?

[MSMS3]

Originally Posted by Roman-dude ok, but while it is going somewhere, if the compression is ok and there are no leaks that I could see so far, would it be more likely then that maybe it's burning or goes into the intercooler? What I am saying is that maybe it makes sense to check those first as more likely culprits?

You need to follow all of these recommendations. If you see oil inside the intercooler or coupler pipes, that still does not explain why. Nor does it eliminate the possibility that you might be pulling oil into the intake from the turbo, have a bad PCV valve, and also have bad ring or bad valve seals. There are multiple possible causes.

Do these diagnostics in whatever order you want, but you are going to need that leak down test. You lost 3.5 quarts of oil in only three weeks. It’s going somewhere.

I did not ever get a clear answer about physical leaks. I know you don’t see any. Can you remove the bottom tray or apron and look under there. A bad leak should find its way to the ground, but that treat/apron can hold a lot of oil.

I also don’t recall you saying whether the car is smoking and what color the smoke is, if present. That would help.

[Roman-dude]

Originally Posted by MSMS3 You need to follow all of these recommendations. If you see oil inside the intercooler or coupler pipes, that still does not explain why. Nor does it eliminate the possibility that you might be pulling oil into the intake from the turbo, have a bad PCV valve, and also have bad ring or bad valve seals. There are multiple possible causes. Do these diagnostics in whatever order you want, but you are going to need that leak down test. You lost 3.5 quarts of oil in only three weeks. It’s going somewhere. I did not ever get a clear answer about physical leaks. I know you don’t see any. Can you remove the bottom tray or apron and look under there. A bad leak should find its way to the ground, but that treat/apron can hold a lot of oil. I also don’t recall you saying whether the car is smoking and what color the smoke is, if present. That would help.

Planning on redoing the compression and doing the leak down on Sat. On that note, does anyone have instructions on how to tdc? Saw one vid that requires a pin but would like to double-check before starting to be sure.
As for smoking, had a coworker follow me for a few minutes. Supposedly there was a bit of a plume (but not dark) right after I took off but not much after. He's not a car guy, though, so this may be less than very accurate. Will have someone who knows trail me on Sat.
thanks!

[Jeff23spl]

checking charge pipe is pretty easy,
It could be a bit sticky on the side like dirty and this is about normal with a k04 but if you have liquids dripping out, it isn't. And looking 3.5quart for 5000 miles is enough to drip out if going there...
but then, if there is oil there, you will still have to narrow out the source...

[Roman-dude]

Also, still no visible leaks and no oil in the coolant reservoir.
Also, not sure if it's related but P0300 started popping up. Used to happen on occasion in the past but has not since I swapped out the plugs.

[ditchrat]

Sorry to thread jack but this sounds identical to my situation. Random misfit code, and oil consumption . My compression test was 180/180/160/180. Not great, but also not terrible. No smoking at idle, no oil in intercooler running 5w-40 with a Damond banjo bolt. I just changed my PCV too.

Pretty frustrated tbh

[Vansquish]

Originally Posted by ditchrat Sorry to thread jack but this sounds identical to my situation. Random misfit code, and oil consumption . My compression test was 180/180/160/180. Not great, but also not terrible. No smoking at idle, no oil in intercooler running 5w-40 with a Damond banjo bolt. I just changed my PCV too. Pretty frustrated tbh

What plug gap are you running?

[ditchrat]

Originally Posted by Vansquish What plug gap are you running?

NGK one step colder at .026.(tuner recommended) My only mods are Corksport Sri, fuel pump internals and a Damond RMM. He had me sitting at 19psi on my tune. I just reflashed his base map, thinking maybe I have too much crankcase pressure

[Roman-dude]

So the compression test came back with near 190 on 3 and mid-180 on the other one, so the engine is fine. There was oil in the hose leading into the intercooler, so looks like the turbo.
Additionally, the gaps increased on the plugs since I put in the new ones 10k or so ago, which is probably why it kept throwing the P0300 misfire last few days and then also p2177 and p2187 "too lean" codes yesterday. With the gaps tightened, the codes are off and no more rougher idle.
But I do need to have a new turbo put in. A quick look on ebay showed one for $380, or the bnr for 425 + core and shipping. Honestly, don't know if BNR is worth it since I will be looking to sell the car anyway, just don't want to sell one with an issue. Also, there are some for under $200 but my gut is telling me to stay away from those. Tried a quick search for some turbo list on the forum but no dice.
Anyway, sorry for rambling on, any advice etc is welcome. Thanks.

[Roman-dude]

oh, I am looking to have the shop do it, what else do I need to buy besides the turbo? I mean, I am going to look into that but it would be great to hear from those who know. thx