BIG TURBO Questions!

[EdgeAutosport.com]

Originally Posted by michael.fetner If we are fully bolted as described can we drop in a gtx3071 without upgrading steedspeed mani, rods, pistons will this be safe and recommended? Eventually id like to build my engine more but if I can drop a BT in now.... Safe and Efficient with E85 though?

You can bolt a GTX3071 to the stock manifold with stock block no problem. Just make sure and get a good tune and you will be fine. I ran a gtx3071 on my personal speed 3 for 30k miles with stock block and stock manifold at 386whp and 400wtq. It was my daily driver and I went WOT several times on my way to work and back home again everyday.

[Boosted Beluga]

Any free turbos? Hahaha

[Mazdazilla6]

Is the spool of the HTA 3076 any different compared to a GT or GTX 3076? @EdgeAutosport.com;

[Mazdazilla6]

So uh does anyone know? I can't find any solid comparisons.

[EdgeAutosport.com]

Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 So uh does anyone know? I can't find any solid comparisons.

The spool on all of them is probably going to be a bit different but not enough so as anyone would notice.

They will all produce full boost in the 3800rpm range.

[mr.speedy3]

Can I has a GTX3076r, please?
tapatalkin

[sac02]

Edge,

Do you guys have any experience kitting turbos to non-speed mazdas? I've got a 2013 2.5L mazda5 that I plan to turbo. I've been researching and keep going back and forth between putting together my own setup vs buying someone's kit.

[NCspecV81]

Originally Posted by sac02 Edge, Do you guys have any experience kitting turbos to non-speed mazdas? I've got a 2013 2.5L mazda5 that I plan to turbo. I've been researching and keep going back and forth between putting together my own setup vs buying someone's kit.

Mazda has a kit. It even comes with a warranty. I recommend the tech package with it too.

[sac02]

Originally Posted by NCspecV81 Mazda has a kit. It even comes with a warranty. I recommend the tech package with it too.

Not sure if this is a snide way to say "sell your car and buy an ms3" or not. (I suspect it is)

Did you miss the part where it is a 5, not a 3? Point me to the mazda ms5 and I'll buy one. We will then both be happy and hold hands and sing kum-bay-yah becasue we all agree there is only one answer to every question, and that answer is "sell your car and buy an ms3"

[EdgeAutosport.com]

We do not really have any experience with the NA mazda 3 turbo kits. I know there are a few out there but I don't know enough about them to recommend any thing.

[Mortose]

Originally Posted by sac02 Not sure if this is a snide way to say "sell your car and buy an ms3" or not. (I suspect it is) Did you miss the part where it is a 5, not a 3? Point me to the mazda ms5 and I'll buy one. We will then both be happy and hold hands and sing kum-bay-yah becasue we all agree there is only one answer to every question, and that answer is "sell your car and buy an ms3"

Just google mazdaspeed5. trust me.

[sac02]

Originally Posted by Mortose Just google mazdaspeed5. trust me.

SIGH.

Trust ME, I have. Perhaps YOU should Google and then READ about the two known "mazdaspeed5's" in existence :
1. The Car & Driver "Boss Wagon" which was more of a difficult project than expected, wound up hacked together and never ran right.
2. The One Lap of America ms5 built by Autobahn Mazda. Which even with a shop full of factory technicians and Mazda design/engineering support was STILL hacked together (see: MS3 gauge cluster duct taped into place because nobody can figure out how to make the swap work without it).

I have been through this many times. The MS3 swap is not easy. There are no known completed cars, and zero knowledge base readily available. I'm not interested in being a pioneer, only in giving the right vehicle that I've chosen due to family situation a little more power. The only people saying goes how easy it is are people who don't have a clue what they are talking about (ahem...) YES the 3 and 5 share a platform, but that does not make this a simple swap. YES the mechanicals bolt in, But the electrical architecture of the ENTIRE car is different. YES the MS3 DISI engine is a better platform. NO the MS3 swap is not cheaper. YES there is a knowledge base for adding turbos to N/A engines, NO it is not as big as the MS3 BT community, but at least it exists. YES a properly done 10psi turbo can be reliable on an N/A motor for 150+k miles NO I'm not interested in 400whp so I don't need or want the MS3.

Have I justified my decision (that has been reached after months of research) to you? Oh, that's right I don't have to, apparently I forgot that during my rant above, so I apologize. Please respond if anything I've said is untrue and you still have a better option for my mz5 project.

[Ferdball]

Have you tries Tri-Point Engineering?

[NCspecV81]

So you bought a mini minivan and want to turbo it to the point of still being slow. Just throw nitrous on it and be done. I wouldn't throw 4 to 5000 into something and still be stuck in 200 horsepower land.

[sac02]

Originally Posted by NCspecV81 So you bought a mini minivan and want to turbo it to the point of still being slow. Just throw nitrous on it and be done. I wouldn't throw 4 to 5000 into something and still be stuck in 200 horsepower land.

First, to Edge: Though not with the answer I had hoped to hear (haha), thank you for answering my question politely. Sorry for clogging your thread with this junk, let me know if you want me to request the mods to remove these posts.

NCspecV81:
First, may I remind you of your first thread on this forum, 10 months ago: Guyz, I can has BT?

At least I am here asking questions about something that has not been done 1000 times before. There's a small number of people running turbos on N/A cars, so I have to ask around to find that experience. It's not like there's a giant forum where hundreds of people have previously discussed and DOCUMENTED how to turbo their MS3 - now where could you find something like that to research your MS3 BT questions, hmm...

Second, I'll assume that since you've resorted to calling my car slow, that you don't actually have anything constructive to say, and don't find any fault in my previous post. I appreciate the technical knowledge on this forum, but the 19 year old brotastic douchebag attitude gets old quick.

The Mazda5 is called "the right tool for the job at hand". Let me know how your MS3 works for you when you have a few kids and need to make a weekend trip to Grandma's House with all their stuff. I don't want or need (well, OK - I guess I do want, lol) a 400FWhp family hauler. I have a garage full of OTHER cars to fulfill those needs: W2W race car, toy/project car, "nice" weekend car. Oh, and truck to tow the race car.

Would you care to explain why you have such a problem with me putting $4k into a turbo to give my DD/family vehicle a nice power bump?

Lets do some Maths:
I spend $4k on a TPE kit. I bump my stock 157bhp to 280bhp (based on 240whp dyno and 15% dt losses - SCC dyno'd 256whp on their TPE kit, closer to 300bhp). That's a 123hp increase - an increase of 78%, for $32/hp.

Looking at your mod list, you've spent at least $4k, likely more (gtx2867, fueling, intake/dp/exh, FMIC, AP) and are probably making 400bhp (based on the compressor map of gtx2867 flowing ~42lb/min at PR 2.4 and 70% eff). From 263bhp to 400bhp for $4k is an increase of 137hp - an increase of 52%, at a cost of $29/hp. If you have spent $5k, you're at $36.5/hp.

So are my plans really that unreasonable?

[NCspecV81]

I don't have any problem with you spending $4000 to get 250whp. I just said I would do it with $500 and call it a day if I was stuck at anything in 200 land. Defensive much?

I've spent $3000 to go from 240whp to 400whp, which puts it $18.75. L2Math

[Vansquish]

Originally Posted by sac02 First, to Edge: Though not with the answer I had hoped to hear (haha), thank you for answering my question politely. Sorry for clogging your thread with this junk, let me know if you want me to request the mods to remove these posts. NCspecV81: First, may I remind you of your first thread on this forum, 10 months ago: Guyz, I can has BT? At least I am here asking questions about something that has not been done 1000 times before. There's a small number of people running turbos on N/A cars, so I have to ask around to find that experience. It's not like there's a giant forum where hundreds of people have previously discussed and DOCUMENTED how to turbo their MS3 - now where could you find something like that to research your MS3 BT questions, hmm... Second, I'll assume that since you've resorted to calling my car slow, that you don't actually have anything constructive to say, and don't find any fault in my previous post. I appreciate the technical knowledge on this forum, but the 19 year old brotastic douchebag attitude gets old quick. The Mazda5 is called "the right tool for the job at hand". Let me know how your MS3 works for you when you have a few kids and need to make a weekend trip to Grandma's House with all their stuff. I don't want or need (well, OK - I guess I do want, lol) a 400FWhp family hauler. I have a garage full of OTHER cars to fulfill those needs: W2W race car, toy/project car, "nice" weekend car. Oh, and truck to tow the race car. Would you care to explain why you have such a problem with me putting $4k into a turbo to give my DD/family vehicle a nice power bump? Lets do some Maths: I spend $4k on a TPE kit. I bump my stock 157bhp to 280bhp (based on 240whp dyno and 15% dt losses - SCC dyno'd 256whp on their TPE kit, closer to 300bhp). That's a 123hp increase - an increase of 78%, for $32/hp. Looking at your mod list, you've spent at least $4k, likely more (gtx2867, fueling, intake/dp/exh, FMIC, AP) and are probably making 400bhp (based on the compressor map of gtx2867 flowing ~42lb/min at PR 2.4 and 70% eff). From 263bhp to 400bhp for $4k is an increase of 137hp - an increase of 52%, at a cost of $29/hp. If you have spent $5k, you're at $36.5/hp. So are my plans really that unreasonable?

I can't really speak to how to go about turboing the 2.5L NA motor, but there are a few people (including a couple on this forum) who've turboed the 2.3L. I know there are a number of similarities between the engines, and there are a few differences as well, but you might consider getting in touch with one of the NA 2.3 --> turbo 2.3 guys to find out about their trials and tribulations. Here's the intro thread for one of them:

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...30/#post711936

[twenty5psi]

@EdgeAutosport.com

Have you guys considered working with ATP to offer a GTX3067R kit, it's an interesting turbo that combines the 2867 comp wheel and housing with the 30R exhaust wheel, doing a little research I feel like it could be a nice matchup for the DISI.

[sac02]

Originally Posted by NCspecV81 I don't have any problem with you spending $4000 to get 250whp. I just said I would do it with $500 and call it a day if I was stuck at anything in 200 land. Defensive much? I've spent $3000 to go from 240whp to 400whp, which puts it $18.75. L2Math

Nah, just long winded and bored at work.
You have a serious vendetta against anything with less than 300hp don't you? I'll tell you a secret, some of the best cars EVER MADE had LESS than 200hp! Just sayin'. "If you're not fast with 90hp, 900 isn't going to help" and all that jazz.
Dyno?
What fuel do you need to make that 400? Mine will be a DD, so 93 for me, makes it a more apples-to-apples comparo.
How did you get this parts list for $3k? >serious question, not challenging you, I want to know your sources so I can use them, lol

Originally Posted by NCspecV81 gtx2867r at internals htp 3inch intake guardian angel ur fmic cpe downpipe ocdspeed axleback AP cobb xle bpv

Originally Posted by Vansquish I can't really speak to how to go about turboing the 2.5L NA motor, but there are a few people (including a couple on this forum) who've turboed the 2.3L. I know there are a number of similarities between the engines, and there are a few differences as well, but you might consider getting in touch with one of the NA 2.3 --> turbo 2.3 guys to find out about their trials and tribulations. Here's the intro thread for one of them: http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...30/#post711936

Thanks for the tip
.
.
.
just the tip

[EdgeAutosport.com]

Originally Posted by twenty5psi @EdgeAutosport.com Have you guys considered working with ATP to offer a GTX3067R kit, it's an interesting turbo that combines the 2867 comp wheel and housing with the 30R exhaust wheel, doing a little research I feel like it could be a nice matchup for the DISI.

We can actually get that. It is $1799. Its not on our site so if you are interested in that turbo just send me a PM and I can get it for you.

[snakedoc]

can I get a pm on pricing for a 3071 kit. Its that time

[redboat]

Manifold to turbo gasket and DP gasket

Can I reuse the OEM, do do I need to buy new?


Also can the OEM studs be removed from OEM turbo, or do I need to buy new hardware?

[redboat]

Can somebody answer this^^^

[alextheguineapig]

Originally Posted by redboat Manifold to turbo gasket and DP gasket Can I reuse the OEM, do do I need to buy new? Also can the OEM studs be removed from OEM turbo, or do I need to buy new hardware?

You can reuse the gaskets with copper spray based on my research. But to be honest, I would replace them. When I pulled my OEM downpipe off that gasket was toast with 60k miles on the clock. I also wouldn't chance a leak at the turbo, that gasket is only about 20-30 bucks compared to 60 for the DP gasket.

Ziggo's BNR install thread indicates that you can remove the studs from the turbo by putting one of the exhaust nuts on backwards and cranking on the inside nut.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by redboat Manifold to turbo gasket and DP gasket Can I reuse the OEM, do do I need to buy new? Also can the OEM studs be removed from OEM turbo, or do I need to buy new hardware?

Originally Posted by alextheguineapig You can reuse the gaskets with copper spray based on my research. But to be honest, I would replace them. When I pulled my OEM downpipe off that gasket was toast with 60k miles on the clock. I also wouldn't chance a leak at the turbo, that gasket is only about 20-30 bucks compared to 60 for the DP gasket. Ziggo's BNR install thread indicates that you can remove the studs from the turbo by putting one of the exhaust nuts on backwards and cranking on the inside nut.

I've reused stock gaskets on a few turbos now, but all have been sub 40k miles, so I'd take that to heart when deciding to replace based on what Alex has said above.

Also, if you're buying an ATP turbo, it will come with all new studs and nuts. However, the nuts will now be a 15mm socket size instead of 14mm so keep that in mind when re installing your downpipe and make sure you can get a wrench on everything.

[EdgeAutosport.com]

Like said above, you can reuse the stock gaskets most times on lower mileage cars but with the higher mileage ones it is a good idea to go ahead and replace them.

[ewenix]

Originally Posted by EdgeAutosport.com You can bolt a GTX3071 to the stock manifold with stock block no problem. Just make sure and get a good tune and you will be fine. I ran a gtx3071 on my personal speed 3 for 30k miles with stock block and stock manifold at 386whp and 400wtq. It was my daily driver and I went WOT several times on my way to work and back home again everyday.

Reading through this entire thread has really piqued my interest... I will be going BT eventually, though not in the market just yet... Still some fun left to have with the stock turbo as im just now going to be getting the HPFP internals installed this weekend and bumping the AP tune up a little bit.

However, the question i have will determine how quickly i make the change to BT....

From the quoted statement, it would seem you made this sort of power with just pump gas and not a mix/blend of E85 and pump gas right? ... I am mostly looking at wanting to hit the 350-375whp range safely, without having to get gas from multiple pumps at every fillup. Even if that limits me to 350whp or so, that is fine also.... I am just looking for the most fun from my daily driver... which is driven very little... 29k miles in nearly 4 years.

[Voltwings]

You can hit those power levels on pump gas, but you will need a very good tune, good gas, and a very well flowing setup, which means you MUST get an external wastegate for that to really be a viable option. Just things to consider when working your budget.

[ewenix]

Looks like i might need to scale back my wants then. Where im at in CA, not wanting to draw the attention to myself that the EWG might bring.

[JSmith]

Originally Posted by ewenix Looks like i might need to scale back my wants then. Where im at in CA, not wanting to draw the attention to myself that the EWG might bring.

Dont people route the EWG flow back into the exhaust after the second cat to avoid the scream?

[ewenix]

I don't know, but i would imagine that would cause all sorts of failures on the sniff test ... my original goal prior to this thread was a solid 300whp from the K04 with reliability... wasnt sure how to do it yet, which lead to researching in this thread, amongst other places.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by JSmith Dont people route the EWG flow back into the exhaust after the second cat to avoid the scream?

You can re route the EWG back into the exhaust, but i don't believe any company makes one that will bolt back in. The Full Race EFR kits are IWG, but don't suck, and i think the CP-e atmosphere kit MIGHT re-route, but i cant remember. On another note though, you're not going to want 1 cat, let alone 2 to try to get the numbers he's wanting.

Originally Posted by ewenix I don't know, but i would imagine that would cause all sorts of failures on the sniff test ... my original goal prior to this thread was a solid 300whp from the K04 with reliability... wasnt sure how to do it yet, which lead to researching in this thread, amongst other places.

the EWG alone will not cause you to fail a sniff test, its only open when you've met or exceed the spring pressure needed to run it which is typically around 14-19 psi depending on your goals.

[Brockjb41]

K question. Car is currently in the shop getting GT3071R put on but the tech says heat shields wont fit and oil lines also wont fit. Anybody thats done big turbo have any info on that? Thank you ahead of time.

[mituc]

The factory turbo heat shield will not fit indeed. That may be the case for the downpipe heat shield as well. The exhaust manifold heat shield should fit.

The factory oil and coolant lines won't fit either so that's why you should use the ones supplied in the kit.

[Brockjb41]

Did you have to modify the oil lines at all to fit? Or just swap in the ones from the kit and you were good to go?

[Brockjb41]

BecAuse the dealership is saying that the oil lines just wont line up.

[JSmith]

...are you having this installed at a dealership...?

[Brockjb41]

Yes... Unfortunately.

[shamie]

Originally Posted by Brockjb41 BecAuse the dealership is saying that the oil lines just wont line up.

The feed or return lines, or both?

[Brockjb41]

Both.