Got That BT Itch

[PapaBruno]

So after getting the Ultimate Racing full turbo-back exhaust installed and ending my downpipe nightmare from last year I am looking to go BT.

After conducting some research here, watching a slew of videos, and gathering some valuable input from @EdgeAutosport.com, I think I've narrowed my focus down to the BNR S4 or the GTX3076R for achieving my power goal(s).

I am leaning more towards the latter. That being said, here are the items/parts I've put together that I will need:

• ATP GTX3076R Turbo
• COBB 3 Port EBCS or Grimmspeed EBCS
• Bosch 3 Bar TMap Map Sensor or maybe the Bosch 3.5 Bar TMap Map Sensor
Alternatively: Stratified Guardian Angel V3 w/ 4 Bar Map
• Turbosmart BPV
• 3" to 3" coupler
Just in case:
• ATP 10mm Studs and ATP 10mm Locking Nuts

I'm guessing I will possibly need some new lines as well?

After BT install:
• Kozmic Motorsports sixth port inj. kit
• JMF intake manifold
• Look into swapping out my 3" intake for a 3.5" or 4" intake
• OCC
• Full Race turbo mani

One thing I am not entirely 100% certain on is the offered wastegate actuator on the GTX3076R and if I can do away with it for a EWG setup and how I would go about doing that i.e.: what's needed item/part wise.

Of course I would have to change from 91 to E85, but luckily I have a 76 station with E85 about a mile away from me, so that solves that problem.

There are quite a few things to consider and there are a bevy of threads on turbos and each specific part, but I wanted to make this thread specific to my BT project. ANY advice, similar topics, input, etc. that you can provide is hugely appreciated!

I should also note that I fully realize that it isn't going to happen overnight; just want to start rolling the ball a little further and make this a reality. After all is said and done I can assume that this will probably cost somewhere in the ballpark of $4K. I am prepared to do this in steps or sell a ton of crap and do it all in one go. ;P

[MS3Shadow]

Have you considered using Corksport 3.5 MAP, it's a plug-in-play replacement?

sent from my Nexus 6P

[Shwa]

That's some turbine wheel you'll have there...

All joking aside, do the 3.5 first. Kay do it right the first time. And if you aren't building the engine the s4 well be plenty.

[PapaBruno]

Originally Posted by MS3Shadow Have you considered using Corksport 3.5 MAP, it's a plug-in-play replacement?

I haven't. Seems pretty simple. May have to keep that one in mind. Thank you.

Originally Posted by Shwa That's some turbine wheel you'll have there... All joking aside, do the 3.5 first. Kay do it right the first time. And if you aren't building the engine the s4 well be plenty.

Ideally and theoretically, an engine build will likely come at some point in time after dropping the BT in. I'd first have to recoup some of the costs associated with the project at hand.
Are you talking 3.5 MAP or intake?

[sh4d0w]

3.5 bar map. ATP 3076 ftw seems like a good turbo although tons of peeps running precision's right now.

Also go EWG if you can.

[PapaBruno]

Originally Posted by sh4d0w 3.5 bar map. ATP 3076 ftw seems like a good turbo although tons of peeps running precision's right now. Also go EWG if you can.

I saw that @King Scumbag had a pretty bad experience with Percision's customer service so I took note of that when shopping around. I know it can be hit or miss sometimes with these things, but Edgeauto has been tremendously helpful in terms of customer service in the past (especially with handling some of my previous orders) and they pretty much have everything I need to make this happen with the ATP.

Anyhow, thanks for taking the time to provide some input too. Not everyone will, but I really can't thank everyone enough for helping out and doing so. It is tough these days to set a little time aside for others when there's only so little time that we get dedicated to ourselves, friends and family, so yeah...I really appreciate it and it definitely makes me happy to be a part of the MSF family.

[MS3Shadow]

I'm also looking into getting a bigger turbo as well.

I'm planning to get the S4 RPM bundle that also comes with free studs.

sent from my Nexus 6P

[Thepedigree13]

Originally Posted by MS3Shadow I'm also looking into getting a bigger turbo as well. I'm planning to get the S4 RPM bundle that also comes with free studs. sent from my Nexus 6P

I am right behind you brother. Just waiting to see how this hail damage issue gets resolved first. Post when you do it so I can assist and/or drink beer and watch.

[Shwa]

Both map and intake. Do it once and do save money. Look into the efr series of turbos, and what they are capable of.

If I could do it again that would be my route without hesitation. With a built engine an efr 7163 will reach 20+ boost before 3k rpm. That's impossible with any other turbo that size.

Seriously they made every other turbo obsolete

[Richys10]

Originally Posted by Thepedigree13 I am right behind you brother. Just waiting to see how this hail damage issue gets resolved first. Post when you do it so I can assist and/or drink beer and watch.

I'm right behind both of you guys lol I'm really leaning toward the s4 as well.

[speedfreak44]

Hmmm gtx7036...that is a new one. If I had a chance to redo my bnrs2 I would have went gtx30 series as well. Good luck

[PapaBruno]

Originally Posted by Shwa Both map and intake. Do it once and do save money. Look into the efr series of turbos, and what they are capable of. If I could do it again that would be my route without hesitation. With a built engine an efr 7163 will reach 20+ boost before 3k rpm. That's impossible with any other turbo that size. Seriously they made every other turbo obsolete

You know a couple guys actually recommended looking into the 7163 in the Nor-Cal BS thread.
I really didn't have it on my radar as it was the FR downpipe that I had a huge fitment issue with for about a year, and I was informed that they are actually halting production on the MS3 downpipe as a result of the poor fitment issue.

Doesn't look like this guy has had much luck with EFR turbos either:

MazdaSpeed Forums Presents: YouTube

MazdaSpeed Forums Presents: YouTube

Originally Posted by speedfreak44 Hmmm gtx7036...that is a new one. If I had a chance to redo my bnrs2 I would have went gtx30 series as well. Good luck

Haha. My mistake. I had it typed in wrong as a GTX7036R when it is actually GTX3076R. Thanks, good catch.

[Richys10]

Originally Posted by PapaBruno You know a couple guys actually recommended looking into the 7163 in the Nor-Cal BS thread. I really didn't have it on my radar as it was the FR downpipe that I had a huge fitment issue with for about a year, and I was informed that they are actually halting production on the MS3 downpipe as a result of the poor fitment issue. Doesn't look like this guy has had much luck with EFR turbos either: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N19s-8M2NSs

that video made my day

[Shwa]

Originally Posted by PapaBruno You know a couple guys actually recommended looking into the 7163 in the Nor-Cal BS thread. I really didn't have it on my radar as it was the FR downpipe that I had a huge fitment issue with for about a year, and I was informed that they are actually halting production on the MS3 downpipe as a result of the poor fitment issue.

@Enki;

[Enki]

Uh, I don't know where you got that idea from, they have an adapter to fix the fitment issue now (thanks to me).

[PapaBruno]

Originally Posted by Enki Uh, I don't know where you got that idea from, they have an adapter to fix the fitment issue now (thanks to me).

It was in an email response from EdgeAuto on September 18 of last year while I was going through the process of returning the downpipe, after going through various iterations of it:

"...they are going to take this downpipe back, and apparently they are going to discontinue that downpipe..."

There was also a thread I created last year that you posted in regarding the fitment issue (just one part of all of the madness and frustration that part caused me - though I feel I kept pretty level headed and patient during all of it):
http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...x-area-186826/

If they have created a solution and adapter that's great. I'd love to see what they came up with. However, with the V-band connection on the EFR turbine/exducer side would that work with any other downpipe other than theirs? Kind of confusing trying to visualize all of it and the various setups.

[Enki]

Ah, right. The adapter I had made was given to them to resolve the issue:



I'm guessing it was going to be too much work to implement it or something, in that case. Tis a sad day, but this makes me glad I'm making my own EFR downpipe for the new build.

[zjnspeed3]

Been lurking in this thread since it started and now I want an EFR... @Enki; I'm about to reread your build thread to see how big of a pain in the ass it would be to make work.

[PapaBruno]

Originally Posted by Enki Ah, right. The adapter I had made was given to them to resolve the issue: I'm guessing it was going to be too much work to implement it or something, in that case. Tis a sad day, but this makes me glad I'm making my own EFR downpipe for the new build.

You know...I still have the downpipe to turbo adapter from the FR downpipe.



Completely and honestly forgot to include it in my return.
I wonder if I could cut and weld the V-band end to match up with the EFR.

Right now I'm still leaning towards the GTX3076R though, primarily because this is my first BT build...hell, this is the first car I've ever modded, and I'd like to get away with as little custom fabrication as possible unless 100% needed.

EDIT: And yup, that looks like it about makes up for the distance that the downpipe was missing initially. Thanks for sharing that. I wish I had that when I still had the downpipe. I'm curious about the flange angle though because three times they've gotten it wrong. The first time it was off set and came up short. The second time it was too long and just oddly had a V-bad end on the exit end of the downpipe, and the third time it was too short and again had an odd flange angle that didn't match up.
I'm too slammed with work to dig through my computer for shots of the third iteration but I'm sure that @Bap can vouch for me as he was the one who offered to help me with that version. After that I returned it and went Ultimate Racing and did the whole downpipe and exhaust myself in a night...I didn't want to bug anyone else for help with the task. But hey, I now know how to do the whole thing myself and can probably do a downpipe swap blindfolded. LOL

[Enki]

Originally Posted by zjnspeed3 Been lurking in this thread since it started and now I want an EFR... @Enki; I'm about to reread your build thread to see how big of a pain in the ass it would be to make work.

The kit is quite a bit better than when I got mine. Comes with more and better shit.
If you plan properly, and don't rush it, it's not too terrible.

Originally Posted by PapaBruno You know...I still have the downpipe to turbo adapter from the FR downpipe. Completely and honestly forgot to include it in my return. I wonder if I could cut and weld the V-band end to match up with the EFR. Right now I'm still leaning towards the GTX3076R though, primarily because this is my first BT build...hell, this is the first car I've ever modded, and I'd like to get away with as little custom fabrication as possible unless 100% needed. EDIT: And yup, that looks like it about makes up for the distance that the downpipe was missing initially. Thanks for sharing that. I wish I had that when I still had the downpipe. I'm curious about the flange angle though because three times they've gotten it wrong. The first time it was off set and came up short. The second time it was too long and just oddly had a V-bad end on the exit end of the downpipe, and the third time it was too short and again had an odd flange angle that didn't match up. I'm too slammed with work to dig through my computer for shots of the third iteration but I'm sure that @Bap can vouch for me as he was the one who offered to help me with that version. After that I returned it and went Ultimate Racing and did the whole downpipe and exhaust myself in a night...I didn't want to bug anyone else for help with the task. But hey, I now know how to do the whole thing myself and can probably do a downpipe swap blindfolded. LOL

First time I've ever seen that pipe. Weird.

I'm going for a full 3.5" of hot, angry fart pipe for the new build, all custom, from the turbo back. Just need a handful of vbands, some bent pipe, a flexi section and some custom hangars and I'll be good to go for way more flow than I'll ever need.

[zjnspeed3]

Originally Posted by Enki The kit is quite a bit better than when I got mine. Comes with more and better shit. If you plan properly, and don't rush it, it's not too terrible. First time I've ever seen that pipe. Weird. I'm going for a full 3.5" of hot, angry fart pipe for the new build, all custom, from the turbo back. Just need a handful of vbands, some bent pipe, a flexi section and some custom hangars and I'll be good to go for way more flow than I'll ever need.

In terms of power capability, how do these turbos compare to Precision turbos?

From some comparisons I looked up, Precision turbos seem to make more power. I guess if your main worry is spool, the EFR is the better

[Cheapspeed]

Unless you expect to go with a built block soon I'd recommend the 3071. The 3076 is laaaaaggy.

[Enki]

I guess if your main worry is power, yeah you'd want a larger flowing turbo, but your generalization is heavily flawed.

The 7163 is a 60 lbs flow turbo (about the same size as a 5858) that will make 20 psi @ 2600 rpm; here's a comparison of relative flow sizes of the Garret and EFR turbos:

GTX 2867R: ~47 lbs
GT 2876R: ~50 lbs
EFR 6758: ~53 lbs
GTX 3071R: ~57 lbs
GT 3076R: ~59 lbs
EFR 7163: ~60 lbs
GT 3582R: ~62 lbs
GTX 3076R: ~64 lbs

Keep in mind the EFR 7163 compressor wheel diameter is only 71mm vs the GTX 3076r wheel size of 76mm; 6.6% smaller diameter and only 6.25% less flow.

If you want to improperly compare Precision turbos to EFR turbos as far as power production goes, then you should compare the 6266 (supposedly 74 lbs flow) to the EFR 9180 (95 lbs flow).

Since Precision doesn't give enough of a fuck to get/publish compressor maps, you really have no idea if you're pushing their turbo hard to make the power they have listed for them. As far as the EFRs go, you *can* go off the map and squeeze more from them. In my opinion, not having a compressor map is a deal breaker.

By the way, Indy cars are using the EFRs for a reason.

[PapaBruno]

What exactly was that in response to, @Enki, @zjnspeed3's post?

Also, did I just get threadjacked?

Also, indy car drivers also have teams, sponsors, big budgets, etc.

[zjnspeed3]

Originally Posted by Enki I guess if your main worry is power, yeah you'd want a larger flowing turbo, but your generalization is heavily flawed. The 7163 is a 60 lbs flow turbo (about the same size as a 5858) that will make 20 psi @ 2600 rpm; here's a comparison of relative flow sizes of the Garret and EFR turbos: GTX 2867R: ~47 lbs GT 2876R: ~50 lbs EFR 6758: ~53 lbs GTX 3071R: ~57 lbs GT 3076R: ~59 lbs EFR 7163: ~60 lbs GT 3582R: ~62 lbs GTX 3076R: ~64 lbs Keep in mind the EFR 7163 compressor wheel diameter is only 71mm vs the GTX 3076r wheel size of 76mm; 6.6% smaller diameter and only 6.25% less flow. If you want to improperly compare Precision turbos to EFR turbos as far as power production goes, then you should compare the 6266 (supposedly 74 lbs flow) to the EFR 9180 (95 lbs flow). Since Precision doesn't give enough of a fuck to get/publish compressor maps, you really have no idea if you're pushing their turbo hard to make the power they have listed for them. As far as the EFRs go, you *can* go off the map and squeeze more from them. In my opinion, not having a compressor map is a deal breaker. By the way, Indy cars are using the EFRs for a reason.

I didn't mean to come off as leaning more toward one brand or the other. I also wish Precision would give out the flow maps so we could properly compare to other turbos. My deal breaker is if there isn't any proven results. I am not an adventurer when it comes to swapping car parts out.

My comparison was off a video of a Supra using roughly the same size EFR and Precision turbos and the PTE turbo made more power. Probably not the best way to make a decision. My bad. Lol

[Enki]

Originally Posted by PapaBruno What exactly was that in response to, @Enki, @zjnspeed3's post? Also, did I just get threadjacked? Also, indy car drivers also have teams, sponsors, big budgets, etc.

Sure was. As far as cost goes, it's not as bad as everyone thinks. Keep in mind that they come with EBCS, IWG (which can out-flow most EWG setups of equal and sometimes greater size), BPV, are pre-restricted for the proper amount of oil, completely vband for connections (if you so choose), have speed sensor option that's easy to install, etc.

Originally Posted by zjnspeed3 I didn't mean to come off as leaning more toward one brand or the other. I also wish Precision would give out the flow maps so we could properly compare to other turbos. My deal breaker is if there isn't any proven results. I am not an adventurer when it comes to swapping car parts out. My comparison was off a video of a Supra using roughly the same size EFR and Precision turbos and the PTE turbo made more power. Probably not the best way to make a decision. My bad. Lol

It's fucking annoying because I had an interest in their turbos for a while as well, but without any information I'm not going to jump into that pool. Also, are you referring to proven results as far as the EFRs are concerned? If so, I don't think that's a fair statement:

EFR 7163, TMIC world record STI.

MazdaSpeed Forums Presents: YouTube

MazdaSpeed Forums Presents: YouTube

It's hard to find videos of people running them for some reason, but that doesn't mean they aren't proven.

Another STI launch for good measure:

MazdaSpeed Forums Presents: YouTube

MazdaSpeed Forums Presents: YouTube

[zjnspeed3]

I was using proven as a general term for all car parts. I figured EFRs were proven if they are used in indy cars. Lol For my build, I was planning for a PTE5858 since it is kind of a run-of-the-mill setup that is great for 550 with fueling(that's my end power goal)

BTW, sorry for getting off topic @PapaBruno; I look forward to seeing which route you go for the build. I'll be watching and waiting for when I get to go BT..

[PapaBruno]

Originally Posted by Enki Sure was. As far as cost goes, it's not as bad as everyone thinks. Keep in mind that they come with EBCS, IWG (which can out-flow most EWG setups of equal and sometimes greater size), BPV, are pre-restricted for the proper amount of oil, completely vband for connections (if you so choose), have speed sensor option that's easy to install, etc.

What do you mean V-band if you so choose? What would my other option be?
That is one of the main things that pushes me away from the EFR. Sounds like a crap excuse to some, but just my experience with that Full Race downpipe man...I swear...never again.

Also, very impressive launches from that STI. Damn that thing hauls!

[Enki]

The compressor inlet and outlet are vband capable, IIRC. The FR DP is why I'm building my own, but you shouldn't fault the turbo for the errors of a third party.

[impossible]

GTX3076R will make a little more top end power with it's BB and better wheel but money:hp increase makes it seem unworth it with the S4 now available as a close replacement as far as stock flange goes. Realistically I'd build the motor and save for a PTE setup just coming from someone who did all the EWG stock flange bs and parted out and is remodding my car with doing built motor first lol. All those fueling mods, flow mods and still skating on thin ice and not being able to always use the power worry free is pointless to me. Subbed for final choice

[PapaBruno]

Thinking of different ways to work with the V-band issue on the 7163, I came across this:
Downpipe V-band Adapter For Mazdaspeed 6 - Stock Turbo [009] - $95.00 : Himni Racing, Turbocharger, Turbo, Garrett, Turbo Kit, GReddy, Mazda RX-7, HKS, Apexi, TiAL, TurboXS, TurboSmart, Flange, Turbonetics, Exhaust, Intercooler, ACT, Intake

I'm not entirely certain, but the bolt pattern looks like it could fit the Speed3. I sent them an email inquiring about the possibility of flipping it around and using it with the Speed3. I guess I'll wait and see what they say.

[Enki]

What exactly is this Vband issue of which you speak?
Edit: That's not going to fit reversed at all, unless you cut the flange off and re-weld it, and by then it will be too wide to fit a downpipe as well as the wrong size vband.

[PapaBruno]

Originally Posted by Enki What exactly is this Vband issue of which you speak? Edit: That's not going to fit reversed at all, unless you cut the flange off and re-weld it, and by then it will be too wide to fit a downpipe as well as the wrong size vband.

The turbine housing on the EFR has a V-band connection and my Ultimate Racing downpipe has a bolt pattern that matches up with the stock K04. So if I choose that route (the EFR), I have to find an adapter solution, yeah?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[Enki]

Or you could go with the Full-Race downpipe...? If the flanging doesn't mate up properly with the catback you could work on fixing that; seems like either way you're going to need to do some custom work though.

[PapaBruno]

Afternoon update:
After calling around to a few places I think I may have found someone up here who does custom fabrication at BMR Napa in Roseville. Should be calling me back either today or tomorrow. We'll see what he has to say.

[PapaBruno]

Damn, the time flies. It's almost been a year since I made the initial post.
Still on the K04, got laid off from my job in August and have been skating by with some self-employment work and started up my own gaming PR agency with a buddy of mine. Eh'..decent money, but not close to what I was making before.
Anyhow, I've since upgraded the fuel line to the CS high pressure fuel line, cleaned my valves (that was a pain in the ass), added the CS injector seals, got a DM Stage 1 OCC with VTA, and the DM EGR block off/delete kit, and got a Go Fast Bits 50/50 dual port BOV.
Dyno'd her earlier this week and she came in just shy of 300HP on a Mustang Dyno. Posted here: First Dyno Results

So now I'm wondering should I just pull the trigger on getting an S4 and some supporting mods to reach my goals? While I'd like something that has a little more headroom in terms of power, like the previously discussed 7163, I don't know it the money I'm bringing in would allow me to reach those power numbers any time soon and I want more power now goddammit!

So I'd be looking at new turbo, bigger intake (dunno which), new sensor, new couplers, maybe new mani, new tune...and maybe meth?

Hey, @EdgeAutosport.com S4 sale time?

[Cheapspeed]

Originally Posted by PapaBruno Damn, the time flies. It's almost been a year since I made the initial post. Still on the K04, got laid off from my job in August and have been skating by with some self-employment work and started up my own gaming PR agency with a buddy of mine. Eh'..decent money, but not close to what I was making before. Anyhow, I've since upgraded the fuel line to the CS high pressure fuel line, cleaned my valves (that was a pain in the ass), added the CS injector seals, got a DM Stage 1 OCC with VTA, and the DM EGR block off/delete kit, and got a Go Fast Bits 50/50 dual port BOV. Dyno'd her earlier this week and she came in just shy of 300HP on a Mustang Dyno. Posted here: First Dyno Results So now I'm wondering should I just pull the trigger on getting an S4 and some supporting mods to reach my goals? While I'd like something that has a little more headroom in terms of power, like the previously discussed 7163, I don't know it the money I'm bringing in would allow me to reach those power numbers any time soon and I want more power now goddammit! So I'd be looking at new turbo, bigger intake (dunno which), new sensor, new couplers, maybe new mani, new tune...and maybe meth? Hey, @EdgeAutosport.com S4 sale time?

In my opinion, meth kit and call it a day. If I could go back ( and recoup all the money ) that's what I would have done. Being FWD these cars really only shine on the top end, especially when you go BT on a stock block.

Plus you reach fuel limitations real quick on a BT which is even more $$$ to get the most out of the turbo.

Sent from my SM-G360T using Tapatalk

[AwAfrican]

Efr 7163 /thread

[PapaBruno]

Originally Posted by Cheapspeed In my opinion, meth kit and call it a day. If I could go back ( and recoup all the money ) that's what I would have done. Being FWD these cars really only shine on the top end, especially when you go BT on a stock block. Plus you reach fuel limitations real quick on a BT which is even more $$$ to get the most out of the turbo.

Quite a few kits to choose from: Devil's Own, Snow, AEM, Aquamist (don't even know if the last two are applicable to our platform but would assume that they'd all be somewhat universal...at least to a degree). Looking at the DO site I see that they have have Mazda clearly supported, and spec'd out this kit:
DVC-30 methanol Injection Kits : DevilsOwn water Injection

The straight up bolt-on access of the S4 with meth sounds more an more appealing by the day.

Originally Posted by AwAfrican Efr 7163 /thread

What scares the hell out of me with the EFR is the adaptability and fitment of the turbine housing side. I mean no one said that going BT would be easy, but just thinking about the trying to install it hurts the shit out of my brain. While I've had my car for a few years, it's still the first car I've ever worked on to this degree and I'm seriously mental when it comes to visualizing this stuff. Pending I go the EFR 7163 route, I would need an adapter for the manifold and down pipe, or a completely new mani and down pipe right?

I think something like this (mentioned in one of my earlier posts) might be a solution to the EFR 7163's V-band hooking up to the downpipe: http://www.himni-racing.com/turbo-fl...-6-stock-turbo (not this exact one, or maybe this one - dunno. I have exchanged emails with them before though about this issue and they said that they can fabricate something)
And if that is the case then I would also likely need a new mani:
Full Race EFR T25 Turbo Manifold Mazdaspeed 3 2007-2013 / Mazdaspeed 6 2006-2007
Borg Warner EFR 7163 Turbocharger
And then there's the turbine housing options:

• T25 IWG 0.85 A/R (+$200.00)
• V-Band IWG 0.80 A/R (+$250.00)
• T4 Twin Scroll IWG 0.80 A/R (+$250.00)
• V-Band EWG 0.85 A/R

Any reason I'd want an 0.80 A/R housing over an 0.85 housing? And then internal v external WG?

Trying to do my homework here, but holy hell sometimes it can feel

[AwAfrican]

@papabruno yes to Mani and DP but edge sells a kit, so the turbo just fits nicely in the engine @enki would be able to tell you about fitment with the kit better than I can as he actually has an efr

http://edgeautosport.com/full-race-b...d-3-2007-2013/