E-85 Cure With Fuel Additives

[littleloogy]

A few months ago I started a project. I was determined to figure out how to make Full E-85 possible on our platform. I spent an entire weekend brainstorming different ideas with my brother. We also went over all the sane and insane ideas that have been suggested on MSF and came up with a list that might actually work. So the mods began…

I went into my Local Kragen Auto Parts Store one day looking at prices for insulation to wrap my Fuel Pump. I told them to stick it when I saw how much that shit was. I walked down the fuel additive isle on my way out, and being like a raccoon I was attracted to a shiny silver bottle. I pick it up and started to read. “Complete Fuel Treatment…Yada yada yada, cleans injectors… yada yada yada, CLEANS GUMMY RESIDUE” What the Fuck? That’s what is in my spill valve. So I bought a bottle brought it home and stated to Research.

The more I researched the more I discovered how awesome this product is. It contains about 40% by volume PEA (Polyether amine or Techron) and 10-20% by volume Aliphatic Naptha, as @Enki; illustrated Naptha Cleans our sticky death out of our pumps. “This additive (per data sheet) also contains detergents and a synthetic upper cylinder lubricant which will help clean pollution control valves and can reduce octane requirements by 2 numbers.” Now I am getting excited… but will it mix with E-85???? “Suitable for use with oxygenated fuels” -Woohoo!

I put this into my tank (1oz to 1 gallon) and topped off with E. I went home and cleaned my Pump and SV to start Fresh. Since then, I have driven over 1000 miles on Full E with this additive with out any issues with the pump. My fuel Level Sender Went out the Day I started this Additive. I am unsure if my Sender went out because of the additive or because I am a Gen 2. It is OK though, I feel like the fuel gauge does not control my life anymore… I fill up when I want to! Lol

Anyway, I do need to note a Few things that I have experienced. Some Pro’s, Some Cons.
Pros: It keeps the SV Clean. I have not needed to open mine in for over 700 miles and it keeps Sticky Death at bay
Cons: Expensive $0.70 per Gallon!

I Do need to caution anyone who is going to run this additive. I Do not know what Prolonged use will do to our oil, or our injectors. I have been on a 1:1 ratio for the passed 50 Gallons and will be doing a UOA soon to see what kind of damage the additive may cause if it gets in the oil.

So, having said that Without Further Ado, I bring you...
REDLINE Si-1


S1-1 Tech Info.pdf
Si-1 data sheet.pdf

[jseams]

I'm wondering how well this will clean a pump that is already well into being gunked up with the black death? I'm perfectly happy running 50/50 but being able to add this to a tank every so often to keep the pump clean would be awesome.

[littleloogy]

I am heading out of town this weekend. I am taking the car on a 400 mile Full E-85 Road Trip. When I hit 1000 miles on this Oil I will do a UOA and pull my pump and document.

[Enki]

Originally Posted by jseams I'm wondering how well this will clean a pump that is already well into being gunked up with the black death? I'm perfectly happy running 50/50 but being able to add this to a tank every so often to keep the pump clean would be awesome.

Try it and find out?*

*Enki is not liable for any retarded or non retarded shit you do to your ride.

Originally Posted by littleloogy I am heading out of town this weekend. I am taking the car on a 400 mile Full E-85 Road Trip. When I hit 1000 miles on this Oil I will do a UOA and pull my pump and document.

REALLY eager to see the UOA.

[littleloogy]

How about some internal Porn. Sticky death lubed in E85 w/ Si-1. oh baby!

YouTube Short

YouTube Short

Notice how the stickiness becomes slippery?

[Boostin'likeAboss]

*book marked*

[Enki]

So just to clarify: you're running a 50/50 mix of this shit?

[Jeremy M]

damn u have good controlled strokes

[Hanzodurrr]

Case group buy time

Note 2 Tappin

[Putin 2.3T]

Originally Posted by Enki So just to clarify: you're running a 50/50 mix of this shit?

I'd like to know this as well.

[littleloogy]

Originally Posted by Enki So just to clarify: you're running a 50/50 mix of this shit?

Don't know if your talking to me me... Or?
I am on 100%E85, with 1oz of Si-1 to 1 gallon E85..

[Enki]

Damn, that's a fucking good ratio. Yes you, btw; needed clarification because op only says 1:1 ratio. So basically, you run this shit with 12 oz per fillup or thereabouts, and it's less than a dollar a gallon. Not too shabby. I may wind up running it just to keep shit in check.

Edit: $12 per tank (roughly) from Amazon:

Amazon.com: Red Line (60103) Complete SI-1 Fuel System Cleaner - 15 Ounce: Automotive

Amazon.com: Red Line (60103) Complete SI-1 Fuel System Cleaner - 15 Ounce: Automotive
Amazon.com: Red Line (60103) Complete SI-1 Fuel System Cleaner - 15 Ounce: Automotive

[Putin 2.3T]

Holy freakin' mackrel! That's great!! I was thinking that's what he meant by the 1:1 but it could have also been possible for 1 bottle per gallon. That's crazy good! I might have to rethink me running a 30/70 and just go 100%. But I will wait for that UOA before I make my final decision.

[mrmonk7663]

Awesome

[Ray Danger 2020]

I feel dirty after watching that video.. lol. So, since I only occasionally run my e85 map and it's only a 5gal/tank mix, I havn't seen the black death. God damn that pump looks a mess. For a second, I legitimately thought your pump was PCd or something. I didn't realize just how nasty they can get. I ran my map all last summer and I only ended up with a light dusting that only appeared light gray. Good work with being a guinea pig. Im not brave enough to do it. Subbed for interest.

[kritz]

1:1 meaning a gallon of this to a gallon of e85? lol splain But pull your plugs and take a look at them, fuel additives sometimes do weird things.

[Putin 2.3T]

Originally Posted by kritz 1:1 meaning a gallon of this to a gallon of e85? lol splain But pull your plugs and take a look at them, fuel additives sometimes do weird things.

He answered that a while ago.

Originally Posted by littleloogy Don't know if your talking to me me... Or? I am on 100%E85, with 1oz of Si-1 to 1 gallon E85..

[kritz]

My bad so a 128:1 miix.

[vtekken]

You sir, @littleloogy; are my hero.

[Cheapspeed]

If the results stay favorable, I'll pick up a few bottles of this stuff and start my e85 tune at 100%.

[SLOWHATCH]

I thought our injectors couldn't flow enough for 100% E? Or is that just on big turbo cars with no port injectors?

[SpeedEngineer]

While that it is true. it opens up possibilities of ease of full up and the guys with aux fueling. Opens up an whole new type of fueling they can access. As well as us stock k04 guys

I will do some research on this too. Curious about the UOA and long term results of this magic fluid

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[NCspecV81]

Would there not be a cheaper alternative to this?

Lucas Oil Products 10013 - Fuel Treatment | O'Reilly Auto Parts

Maybe that? 128oz for $30


Or maybe this?

http://www.jegs.com/i/Lucas+Oil/639/10324/10002/-1

Material sheet says it contains 25-35 percent of Naphtha

http://www.lucasoil.com/images/media...Stabilizer.pdf

[HawkeyeGeoff]

SHIIIIIIET! Subbed!

[NCspecV81]

This also looks promising as an alternative since it makes the same claims as the Red Line - Lube Control Fuel Power Plus

Lube Control

128oz (1gal) - $60

FP PLUS for Gasoline (gallon) - LubeControl

[Dream20b]

aside from ease of use, what gains are to be had from running 100% e85 as opposed to a mix?

[Koke382]

Umm power

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk

Lol

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk

[Sid3wayS]

Im curious if the additive affects combustion and how power is made? We use e85 for its cooler burning and resistance to false detonation (knock) how would these additives affect that?

[Cheapspeed]

Originally Posted by Dream20b aside from ease of use, what gains are to be had from running 100% e85 as opposed to a mix?

Even if the gains aren't substantial ease of mixing (or lack thereof) and generally a cheaper cost of running.

[JgamB]

Originally Posted by Cheapspeed Even if the gains aren't substantial ease of mixing (or lack thereof) and generally a cheaper cost of running.

It's not going to be cheaper in any situation unless you're comparing to race gas. Your fuel scalar will be contributing 30% more fuel to achieve stoich. That would put it on par with diesel costs (in most parts of the country), and any additives will simply increase the cost.

You will also be filling up more often, so if your E85 source isn't right down the road, you might want to account for 1/3 more trips to the gas station as an expense.

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from running 100% E85 - I just don't want people to think they'll be saving money.

The oil dilution vs cooling and added power - someone else will need to chime in on that. I've read just about every thread on MSF about corn before I made the plunge, and I can't recall anyone showing comparative dyno runs of 3/9, 4/8, 5/7, or 100%. I would think an OEM TMIC car on a dyno would be a really good "proving ground" to see if there's power to be made with full corn.

And thanks @littleloogy; for keeping at this project - if nothing else I'll be using this stuff downstream from the fuel tank (I like my fuel gauge) as a cleaning agent for my spill valve.

[littleloogy]

Originally Posted by NCspecV81 Would there not be a cheaper alternative to this? Lucas Oil Products 10013 - Fuel Treatment | O'Reilly Auto Parts Maybe that? 128oz for $30 Or maybe this? http://www.jegs.com/i/Lucas+Oil/639/10324/10002/-1 Material sheet says it contains 25-35 percent of Naphtha http://www.lucasoil.com/images/media...Stabilizer.pdf

Try it and report back. Redline was the only additive that I could find that was advertised to be used on a regular basis.

[udntknw]

@littleloogy; so you are basically using one bottle of the Si-1 to a full tank of E? and still on the redline oil correct?

edit: think its worth a shot on T6?

[Enki]

Originally Posted by NCspecV81 Material sheet says it contains 25-35 percent of Naphtha

While the Naphtha is good at breaking down the stickyness, it doesn't destroy it outright like this additive does. There's something in it that actively breaks down the oil's hydrocarbon chain and THAT is what we need from it; the rest is filler. (I know because I put a gallon of Naphtha into < 1/4 tank of full e and still had massive issues)

Originally Posted by Dream20b aside from ease of use, what gains are to be had from running 100% e85 as opposed to a mix?

We are going to find out. Whomever is local to me and tests this @udntknw;...?) will have before and after map comparisons with ONLY fuel scalar changes done to the map.

Originally Posted by Sid3wayS Im curious if the additive affects combustion and how power is made? We use e85 for its cooler burning and resistance to false detonation (knock) how would these additives affect that?

I don't think 1 oz per gallon will affect the effective octane rating of corn by much if any, esp considering it says it helps improve the effective octane rating as it is.

Originally Posted by SLOWHATCH I thought our injectors couldn't flow enough for 100% E? Or is that just on big turbo cars with no port injectors?

The fuel system can't hang on full E much past 320 ish HP. If my local tester is modded enough, we will find out exactly what the limits are (hell, I might even test in my car).

Originally Posted by NCspecV81 This also looks promising as an alternative since it makes the same claims as the Red Line - Lube Control Fuel Power Plus

Test it!

Originally Posted by JgamB It's not going to be cheaper in any situation unless you're comparing to race gas. Your fuel scalar will be contributing 30% more fuel to achieve stoich. That would put it on par with diesel costs (in most parts of the country), and any additives will simply increase the cost. You will also be filling up more often, so if your E85 source isn't right down the road, you might want to account for 1/3 more trips to the gas station as an expense. I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from running 100% E85 - I just don't want people to think they'll be saving money.

Actually you can get the same if not better mileage than stock...if you keep your foot out of it. I've found that running leaner than 15.5 on 50/50 didn't really net much gain in mpg due to requiring higher load to make the same power for cruising, but on full E the cooling would likely give you that increased load as it is, so it's worth testing (again, I might step back in the ring for this).

Originally Posted by udntknw @littleloogy; so you are basically using one bottle of the Si-1 to a full tank of E? and still on the redline oil correct? edit: think its worth a shot on T6?

He's only using 1 oz per gallon, so not even a full bottle. If you're going to start testing, I'd run a full bottle for the first tank at least, and then we can see how much of this shit is really REQUIRED to keep the sticky at bay.

[littleloogy]

Originally Posted by udntknw @littleloogy; so you are basically using one bottle of the Si-1 to a full tank of E? and still on the redline oil correct? edit: think its worth a shot on T6?

Yes, full bottle on first fill up. Burn through the tank, change oil and then add one oz per gallon after that. Get data with fresh oil. I have only tested this additive with Redline full synthetic10w30. I do not know how it will work with other oils.

Edit: I personality would head over to the thread about Oil and E. Use a oil that is better at combating death.

Sent from Lake Tahoe...

[squilliam]

subbed, an e85 station just opened up down the street.

[Enki]

Couldn't hurt to test it on T6 though, especially considering the near full reversal on black death it has.

Hell, we may even find that T6 is the only oil that can withstand this stuff for long periods of time, thus, in full irony, making T6 the only oil you CAN run on full E. Wouldn't that be hilarious?

[alphasaur]

Originally Posted by littleloogy How about some internal Porn. Sticky death lubed in E85 w/ Si-1. oh baby! Sticky Fuel Pump Internals - YouTube Notice how the stickiness becomes slippery?

am I the only one that had a narrative of "harder harder faster" going?

[SpeedEngineer]

Originally Posted by Enki Couldn't hurt to test it on T6 though, especially considering the near full reversal on black death it has. Hell, we may even find that T6 is the only oil that can withstand this stuff for long periods of time, thus, in full irony, making T6 the only oil you CAN run on full E. Wouldn't that be hilarious?

If i read one of your threads right, didnt you switch back to t6 recently?

[littleloogy]

Originally Posted by alphasaur am I the only one that had a narrative of "harder harder faster" going?

I got an hard on while making the video... But I am also a pervert.

Originally Posted by Enki Couldn't hurt to test it on T6 though, especially considering the near full reversal on black death it has. Hell, we may even find that T6 is the only oil that can withstand this stuff for long periods of time, thus, in full irony, making T6 the only oil you CAN run on full E. Wouldn't that be hilarious?

I hope that is the case, ironic no doubt. A shit ton of people will benefit from this. After my UOA I will be going to a 1 oz to 2 gallon mix to see how lean I can go before death starts to appear with the Redline oil.

[twenty5psi]

Even for guys using 50/50 blends and less running a bottle of this through the fuel tank every month or so sounds like a great way of keeping the fuel system clean and happy.