HOW TO: Remove & Disassemble HPFP Spill Valve

[laxplayermjd]

Originally Posted by silvapain It comes out very easily with a jewelers screwdriver. I've pulled mine out before to inspect it. It's not a normal toroidal O-ring. The edges are flattened, where the cross-section is square not circular. Tapadatass

well then i dont think ill have any orings like that around, but that doesnt mean you couldnt just put a slighter larger reg one and squeeze it in.

Also i dont think measuring the o ring would be that accurate, especially if we think oil is leaking by it. Oil will almost always swell the o ring or atleast deform it slightly.

All this talk makes me want to jump on the band wagon, although i would need to move back home, there is no close stations near memphis

[dougefresh_]

So what specifically do you guys use to clean the spill valve? I didn't see anything mentioned... I like brake cleaner, but I wouldn't use that by the o-ring part.

Also, is the seafoam in the tank only necessary over 50/50?

TIA

EDIT: You guys have 2 maps handy in case you're on a trip and can't plan E85 stations? I plan on have 93 the a mix map. Not sure of mix, maybe E30.

[Enki]

Seafoam doesn't do a fucking thing. Trust me.

Use 91 pump gas and a toothbrush/lint free cloth to wipe the sticky off of everything and you'll be good.

[phate]

Originally Posted by dougefresh_ So what specifically do you guys use to clean the spill valve? I didn't see anything mentioned... I like brake cleaner, but I wouldn't use that by the o-ring part. Also, is the seafoam in the tank only necessary over 50/50? TIA EDIT: You guys have 2 maps handy in case you're on a trip and can't plan E85 stations? I plan on have 93 the a mix map. Not sure of mix, maybe E30.

I use brake cleaner, but gas works, as well.

I have a 93 octane map, a 50/50 shitty map, an E70 (winter) map, and my E85 (summer) map

I picked up a can of seafoam last time I was in town. I'm going to get a gunk specimen and see what the seafoam does to it, directly.

[dougefresh_]

Cool, thanks. What's a 50/50 shitty map? lol Something like my current 93 shitty map?

[jroc]

Originally Posted by phate I use brake cleaner, but gas works, as well. I have a 93 octane map, a 50/50 shitty map, an E70 (winter) map, and my E85 (summer) map I picked up a can of seafoam last time I was in town. I'm going to get a gunk specimen and see what the seafoam does to it, directly.

kind of going along with the last sentence, when i had my engine apart, i had put a stock piston in a bowl of seaform and let it sit for a full day. SOME carbon deposits came off, not a whole lot/what i had hoped for.

[silvapain]

I use gasoline and Qtips to clean my spill valve, and I keep a 93 Octane pump tune on my AP just in case I'm stuck in an area without an E85 pump.


Tapadatass

[burn813]

subbed... for reference... thank you @silvapain !!!!

[Vinnie]

you're the best!

[Redline143]

I broke the plastic connector off the top of the spill valve when replacing my internals with Autotechs. Help! Do you think the dealer will have it in stock? Does any one know a fast, cheap fix?

[phate]

Originally Posted by Redline143 I broke the plastic connector off the top of the spill valve when replacing my internals with Autotechs. Help! Do you think the dealer will have it in stock? Does any one know a fast, cheap fix?

You're sol unless you find someone with just a solenoid laying around. They only sell complete pumps.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Redline143]

Originally Posted by phate You're sol unless you find someone with just a solenoid laying around. They only sell complete pumps. Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Are you serious?!? What would you do?

[MSP611]

So this is the only part u need to clean when going 100% e85...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

[jseams]

Originally Posted by Redline143 Are you serious?!? What would you do?

Used Mazda High Pressure Fuel Pump mazdaspeed 3 CX 7 mazdaspeed 6 | eBay

0 bids... at $150 atm.

[Redline143]

Originally Posted by jseams Used Mazda High Pressure Fuel Pump mazdaspeed 3 CX 7 mazdaspeed 6 | eBay 0 bids... at $150 atm.

Thx... bidded. I'm hoping for a faster solution, though...

[djuosnteisn]

Just out bid you by $1

[Island mazda]

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go Nice. I was previously mis-understanding Phate's instructions, but this pic straightened me out and I cleaned mine up fully this morning as I had been having 2-3 excursions to RV lift pressure during pulls where as this used to be ~0 when targeting 1750PSI. TBD if the issue is resolved. Edit: On a side note, when did I go Orange?

What does that part makes u car do?

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Island mazda What does that part makes u car do?

The spill valve controls the high pressure rail pressure. The relief valve on the high pressure rail is the last line of defense to prevent an excessive overpressure scenario that could result in bursting of parts in the high pressure rail if the spill valve isn't controlling pressure adequately.

[Island mazda]

Thank u .. That info was great.. But how do I know it's mess up

[Nitr0EngiE]

if you notice your car wont go above like 60 psi of fuel(meaning only the intake pump is pumping) and the HPFP pump is not working

seems to only happen to people using E85

[Island mazda]

Ok thank u I learn something new .. I appricated

[djuosnteisn]

I'm gonna switch to 100% e85 once i'm done with my new fuel setup. Just reviving the thread in case there's been any new results from the various theories. As it stands now, am i right in thinking that oil seeping past the o-ring is still the primary culprit?

[Enki]

I'll be able to confirm it in a couple of months.

[djuosnteisn]

Are you running the secondary scraper?

[phate]

Its still the best theory we have.

[Enki]

No, I took it out as the pump had issues immediately again after; I probably tightened it too much and it retracted from the internals themselves, losing the scraping capability.

[Island mazda]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn I'm gonna switch to 100% e85 once i'm done with my new fuel setup. Just reviving the thread in case there's been any new results from the various theories. As it stands now, am i right in thinking that oil seeping past the o-ring is still the primary culprit?

What's e85???

[Raider]

Search

[Island mazda]

Thanks for nothing!!

[djuosnteisn]

Search google.

[Enki]

Originally Posted by Raider Search

Originally Posted by Island mazda Thanks for nothing!!

Lmfao.

[Raider]

Originally Posted by Island mazda Thanks for nothing!!

I do not care where you are in the world. You were sent this when you signed up:
http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...-email-132738/

This key advice you have ignored repeatedly:3

Please visit the MSF Knowledge Base Section - MSF KB - Read me First! If you do not follow this advice, i hope you have VERY thick skin... because you WILL get flamed.

It is also located here, where I have tried to send you unsuccessfully.

Start Here - Mazdaspeed Forums

So stop your whining and do some reading.

[Redline143]

Originally Posted by phate I use brake cleaner, but gas works, as well. I have a 93 octane map, a 50/50 shitty map, an E70 (winter) map, and my E85 (summer) map I picked up a can of seafoam last time I was in town. I'm going to get a gunk specimen and see what the seafoam does to it, directly.

Wow, so I guess I joined the club today--that of needing to pull my spill valve and clean it out. I've been getting 60s in my idle fuel pressure for a few minutes on cold (~35 degree) startups over the last couple of days. I'm hoping this means I only need to clean the spill valve. I'd been running a 50/50 (E40) mix without any issues. ~2 month old internals and no super loud (internals failing) clicking noise is present. Maybe I just need to add cleaning my spill valve to my regular maintenance tasks.

So, you guys that have repeatedly had to disassemble and clean spill valves, does my experience fit the MO? I'm hoping it's just this spill valve. And this is all I can expect, not having to do the same to the internals too, over and over?

If all of this is indeed caused by a silly o-ring, gosh, what a pain! The powa is definitely worth it, though!

[SWAY]

Originally Posted by Redline143 Wow, so I guess I joined the club today--that of needing to pull my spill valve and clean it out. I've been getting 60s in my idle fuel pressure for a few minutes on cold (~35 degree) startups over the last couple of days. I'm hoping this means I only need to clean the spill valve. I'd been running a 50/50 (E40) mix without any issues. ~2 month old internals and no super loud (internals failing) clicking noise is present. Maybe I just need to add cleaning my spill valve to my regular maintenance tasks. So, you guys that have repeatedly had to disassemble and clean spill valves, does my experience fit the MO? I'm hoping it's just this spill valve. And this is all I can expect, not having to do the same to the internals too, over and over? If all of this is indeed caused by a silly o-ring, gosh, what a pain! The powa is definitely worth it, though!

This has been known, you shouldn't run e without the knowledge of what it's doing and what's going on.

[Redline143]

Originally Posted by SWAY This has been known, you shouldn't run e without the knowledge of what it's doing and what's going on.

I hear ya. What I was understanding was that I could avoid those issues if I stuck to a 50/50 mix or below. That's why I stuck with a 50/50 mix. If it's just the spill valve and a simple r&r/cleaning procedure that takes 20 minutes is the only trade-off, I have to say that this is a wonderful deal.

As I appraised all of the data prior to running ethanol, though, I had no idea that regular spill valve cleanings were part of the picture. Like I said, I was under the impression that all issues were averted at 50/50 and below mix levels... Lots of what's been said strongly suggests this. Oh well, you live and you learn. I'm fully warrantied until 100k anyways, so I may just get tired of dealing with it and take the car/fuel pump to a dealer at an "opportune" time That is, if all the suggestions that new fuel pumps won't encounter these issues is accurate...

[phate]

Yeah, every once in a while someone running a 5050 or so mix will get a sticky spill valve. It usually takes quite a while between cleanings, unlike how it is with straight e85. I think it's dependent on just how much oil is getting past the O-Ring, and how much ethanol you're actually putting in (it fluctuates, no biggie).

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn I'm gonna switch to 100% e85 once i'm done with my new fuel setup. Just reviving the thread in case there's been any new results from the various theories. As it stands now, am i right in thinking that oil seeping past the o-ring is still the primary culprit?

Yes. Even with a second normal O-ring wedged in with the quad ring, I still had my spill valve stick when I was doing MAF calibration logs. I've stated in other threads on here that the likelyhood of the spill valve sticking increases significantly when the engine is running in high RPM, low load conditions. I believe it's oil leaking past the piston seals and coming back up into the spill valve due to the high HPFP cycle rate and low fuel demand.

[djuosnteisn]

It's obvious that the spill valve is sticking in it's "deenergized" state, since fuel pressure drops, rather than sky rockets.

I know this is all common knowledge already.. but i'm just kinda recapping to refresh my thoughts on it.

Here's the spill valve operation:


When the solenoid is energized, it allows the spill valve to operate like a check valve, forcing the compressed fuel into the rail, building pressure.

When the spill valve is de-energized, the check valve never seals, and allows the compressed fuel to flow back up stream, reducing pressure.

There are two opposing springs, one on the top of the plunger, and one below the check valve. Obviously the one on the plunger is much more stiff than the one below the check valve, otherwise the check valve would still seal in the de-energized state.

One option may be playing with the spring stiffness to see if we can help avoid the sticking. Either by making the spring under the check valve a lil bit stiffer (in a sense helping the solenoid drive the piston upward), or making the spring on top of the plunger a lil weaker. Dunno.

Another option would be potentially increasing the current flow through the solenoid giving it more power to break loose. This could be a pita, and might risk damaging the solenoid.

Obviously the ideal solution is to avoid the oil contamination... but if that's too difficult, then maybe we can work around it. I remember some people were talking about coating the plunger or whatever pieces get sticky with some sort of super slick coating. Anyone ever try that yet?

Hmmm.... i dunno, gotta get busy at day job. I'm kinda excited to run 100% e85 now. If this is our only real problem, and cleaning it periodically works... then that's not a huge deal imo. But i bet we can all come up with a proper solution.

[Island mazda]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn It's obvious that the spill valve is sticking in it's "deenergized" state, since fuel pressure drops, rather than sky rockets. I know this is all common knowledge already.. but i'm just kinda recapping to refresh my thoughts on it. Here's the spill valve operation: When the solenoid is energized, it allows the spill valve to operate like a check valve, forcing the compressed fuel into the rail, building pressure. When the spill valve is de-energized, the check valve never seals, and allows the compressed fuel to flow back up stream, reducing pressure. There are two opposing springs, one on the top of the plunger, and one below the check valve. Obviously the one on the plunger is much more stiff than the one below the check valve, otherwise the check valve would still seal in the de-energized state. One option may be playing with the spring stiffness to see if we can help avoid the sticking. Either by making the spring under the check valve a lil bit stiffer (in a sense helping the solenoid drive the piston upward), or making the spring on top of the plunger a lil weaker. Dunno. Another option would be potentially increasing the current flow through the solenoid giving it more power to break loose. This could be a pita, and might risk damaging the solenoid. Obviously the ideal solution is to avoid the oil contamination... but if that's too difficult, then maybe we can work around it. I remember some people were talking about coating the plunger or whatever pieces get sticky with some sort of super slick coating. Anyone ever try that yet? Hmmm.... i dunno, gotta get busy at day job. I'm kinda excited to run 100% e85 now. If this is our only real problem, and cleaning it periodically works... then that's not a huge deal imo. But i bet we can all come up with a proper solution.

Am so happy I got my pump working now am seeing 438psi @ idle... Before I was seeing 68 to 75 psi

[djuosnteisn]

I'm happy for you too.