No power gains from E85 mix!?

[EmPeEs6]

Yesterday I added 3-4 gallons E85 so I currently run a 25% E-mix.
Without having done any maf-recal my max calculated load jumped up from 2.3 to 2.5x and max maf increased by 40-50 g/s, so there are gains in air flow of roughly 10%.

What I don't understand is that I don't notice any gains in tq / hp in VD!?

Since there's much more air entering the combustion chamber I should also get more hp or am I totally wrong?
I use VersaTuner as tuning tool (and thus lambda-tuning), so I do not necessarily have to adjust my fuel tables, moreover boost and timing are already set quite high (up tp 24-25 psi / 20°).
Reported afr is varying around 11.5, but this is of course an internally transformed value based on pump gas assumptions.
Do I have to increase / lean out target afr further (~12.0), and where's my expected, additional power? May this be due to insufficient fuel supply...?

[SarcasticOne]

Guessing versatuner does MAF based fuel scaling rather than doing injector scaling... @Lex;?

[btstarcher]

Why would you see any power gain just by adding e85? The gains come from allowing for more advanced timing. Also the load and AFR are off because the fuel density is different. You're not getting more air.

[Mistersix]

Try doing the runs all back to back adding a degree of timing each time. Use the same stretch going the same direction. Once you notice minimal gains or a little knock use the previous map. It's not gonna do miracles, but it's an easy 20hp.

[EmPeEs6]

This was an epic fail: I used an old E85-map as template which had the maf cal already adjusted by 10% - I just didn't notice this fact...
So, no miracles at all and everything as expected ;-)

[Enki]

You may flow more air due to the cooling effect, but alcohols burn slower, thus requiring more timing in order to make the same or more power.

[EmPeEs6]

Well, that was my original intention - since I already ran extremely aggressive values, as mentioned above up to 25 psi and 18° (on pump gas!) there's not much headroom for power gains from boost and/or timing...

[BuddySpeed3]

Originally Posted by EmPeEs6 Well, that was my original intention - since I already ran extremely aggressive values, as mentioned above up to 25 psi and 18° (on pump gas!) there's not much headroom for power gains from boost and/or timing...

Wow 25 psi and 18 degrees at redline on pump gas? Is that even possible?

I'm using 94 octane and in the process of dialing in a nice pump gas tune but still want to be safe.

What's your approach to dialing timing in on pump gas?

[EmPeEs6]

This was on 95 (US) octane (=102 EU octane), i.e. the best fuel quality avaiable.
Now, using 93 octane gas + ~4-5 gallons E85, I can run up to 27 psi and 20° at redline.

[Snip]

Yup, that RON 102 octane is amazing stuff, glad we have that quality of fuel over here in europe, costs a fair dime (currently ~1.80 euro per liter ), but worth every penny in my opinion.

Starting from my RON98 octane tune, i could easily add 5* timing up top.
Still no knock to be found untill now.

[SpeedRebirth]

Well, you ran a 102 octance fuel. Then went back to (US93/EU98??) + E85...
E85 has a EU octane of 104. Mixing that with EU98 might get you ~100 octane
So your current octane is actually lower than before. The only advantage now is that E85 cools your chamber better. But octane is actually worse

I don't see that there is much gain to be had. I.E you need a bigger turbo

[Enki]

Originally Posted by SpeedRebirth Well, you ran a 102 octance fuel. Then went back to (US93/EU98??) + E85... E85 has a EU octane of 104. Mixing that with EU98 might get you ~100 octane So your current octane is actually lower than before. The only advantage now is that E85 cools your chamber better. But octane is actually worse I don't see that there is much gain to be had. I.E you need a bigger turbo

Not even remotely close/true. E100 has an *effective* octane rating closer to 160 on DI engines.

[Gr8Speed]

Noticing your mods this is probably pretty irrelevant- but I have observed MBT on limited flow setups at 14-15* at the low end as opposed to the "norm" of 20ish* with an e40 mix. An example is a car that only had an intake and test pipe (HPFP internals also of course).