ATP 3071r swap how to , lenny gets BT fever too

[Dano]

Are we back full circle (jerk) to EWG and or porting again?

This thread is for the masses not the big HP guys

That turbo will not creep with EBC I'll bet any of you anything you want.

As long as Lenny doesn't go for a 16 PSI target he'll be fine

Driver has already done it

I have already done it on a 28

Pay attention

Hahahahaha






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[jwilkins88]

Originally Posted by Dano2010 Are we back full circle (jerk) to EWG and or porting again? This thread is for the masses not the big HP guys

Sorry brah... I waz joking!

[Dano]

hahahah

N/P brah!

[rodrigo]

Originally Posted by Dano2010 Are we back full circle (jerk) to EWG and or porting again? This thread is for the masses not the big HP guys That turbo will not creep with EBC I'll bet any of you anything you want. As long as Lenny doesn't go for a 16 PSI target he'll be fine Driver has already done it I have already done it on a 28 Pay attention Hahahahaha Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

not only that, the "big hp guys " seem to be just as slow as the "so so hp guys".....

but dano hit it on the head.... this thread is for the bulk of the guys out there that want a simple bolt on, there are educated reasons for me not wanting to go beyond 350whp.... not too many guys nearing 100k miles will be trying this so..... rather than be a sacrificial lamb finding out at what point my shit will implode , I rather be cautious and instead of going for a realistic 375whp, I will settle for around 350..... or maybe a week after I finish tuning it I get bored and up the fucken boost lol

alot of u guys need to grow the fuck up and realize the point of hp isnt to spin rollers, but to put down to the ground in a workable manner.... so far I havent seen too much of that.....and I honestly think more ATP set ups will end up popping out left and right because of this.

[SpeedSixxx]

AWD dont spin

[rodrigo]

money that the first mazdaspeed to run 11s is an ms3.....

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by lenny127 not only that, the "big hp guys " seem to be just as slow as the "so so hp guys"..... but dano hit it on the head.... this thread is for the bulk of the guys out there that want a simple bolt on, there are educated reasons for me not wanting to go beyond 350whp.... not too many guys nearing 100k miles will be trying this so..... rather than be a sacrificial lamb finding out at what point my shit will implode , I rather be cautious and instead of going for a realistic 375whp, I will settle for around 350..... or maybe a week after I finish tuning it I get bored and up the fucken boost lol alot of u guys need to grow the fuck up and realize the point of hp isnt to spin rollers, but to put down to the ground in a workable manner.... so far I havent seen too much of that.....and I honestly think more ATP set ups will end up popping out left and right because of this.

Just like I originally just wanted 18 PSI with my AP...Then 19, 20, 21, 22 PSI...

Hell, I would probably have been aiming for more than 22PSI if not for the stock MAP sensor limitation.

[rodrigo]

man i swear to god my car feels slow already lol

im not so much looking at boost, reality for my car is (and u know this cld12pk) my car cannot take the amount of timing others can, it detonates.... these are amongst the cleanest logs I have ever seen on my car, I am willing to bet if we add more than 2 degrees across and lean more than .400 also my old KR friend will pop its head out.

hopefully Christian has some great ideas and skills in getting the most out of my tune but I am fairly confident from what I see my car will probably run best at 20psi across with another 2 degrees and .400 point leaner and that is realistically the limit I want to set for myself as far as tuning..... with EBC or MBC either or......

with that in place I think I will leave myself a safety margin that will allow longevity for my 3 legged dog

[bmylez]

Wow, SpeedSixxx really is a shit talker...first he puts me down and says I "don't know shit" and now he's saying you're making "faggot power."

Keep up the good work. I'm still trying to decide between ATP 3071 or top mount with the 2871 I already own...

[rodrigo]

consider your goals.... and consider your personality..do u chase more after u are done? 2871 i think is a killer set up for street fun.... but 3071 leaves a lil more room for increase.... and look at my logs look at log #9 and u will see how quickly this turbo spools.... at 2800 rpm i floor it and by 3300 i was in full boost at 20psi.... if thats not quick enough i dont know what is

[bmylez]

Yeah, I'm 99% sure I'm going with 2871. Top mount manifold will be a little different and I like being different. What I have seen in my experience is that *everyone* always wants more. A guy I know made 396whp @ 24psi with his 2871 on a built motor Focus. I figure pumping out 380 on the MS3 should be safe and doable. Being able to destroy 2011 Mustangs and give Z06s a run for their money should keep me happy for at least a little while.

[jwilkins88]

Originally Posted by bmylez Yeah, I'm 99% sure I'm going with 2871. Top mount manifold will be a little different and I like being different. What I have seen in my experience is that *everyone* always wants more. A guy I know made 396whp @ 24psi with his 2871 on a built motor Focus. I figure pumping out 380 on the MS3 should be safe and doable. Being able to destroy 2011 Mustangs and give Z06s a run for their money should keep me happy for at least a little while.

I'd feel more comfortable trying to hit 380 on a 3071. You'll probably be pushing the GT28 pretty hard in order to hit 380.

[801MS3]

Thanks for all the updates Lenny, Sorry to hear about the boost issues.. slightly dissapointed that that thing is still creeping (as i am planning on getting an IWG 3071 very soon)
Can Driver311 chime in on his boost issues if any post wg porting?

[bmylez]

Originally Posted by jwilkins88 I'd feel more comfortable trying to hit 380 on a 3071. You'll probably be pushing the GT28 pretty hard in order to hit 380.

I will admit I don't know everything about the MS3 platform but...you're telling me the MS3 is going to be less efficient at making power than a 2.0L Focus with mild cams and head work? I will have my car the first week of January. It already has a built motor: Pauter rods and CP pistons as well as meth. Seems like 380 should be possible with that added safety.

[rodrigo]

Originally Posted by 801MS3 Thanks for all the updates Lenny, Sorry to hear about the boost issues.. slightly dissapointed that that thing is still creeping (as i am planning on getting an IWG 3071 very soon) Can Driver311 chime in on his boost issues if any post wg porting?

anthony had the older version with slightly smaller wg hole.... he ported it a lil and put it in his car and still had creep.

the then went from big maf to oem size and added a cat to his exhaust and opened up the wg a lil more.... he reports absolutely no creep even on his auto x 13psi map...which says alot.

I RECOMMEND ANYONE THAT BUYS AN ATP TURBO TO PORT THE WG TRANSITION FROM THE HOT ENTRANCE SIDE , WHERE MY FINGER BLOCKS THE MATERIAL BEHIND IT.

stock unported


ported mildly


ported aggresively


also the circular wg hole should be enlarged a hair, be careful as to not come near the size of the flapper valve or fucker wont seal properly.... these 2 spots were the ones mentioned to me by christian when he requested I do mine.

christian asked me to please share that with the community and to let ATP know that this is still an issue, he wanted me to actually port mine but i told him that i wasnt pulling the turbo off , he is very professional and doesnt like the idea of tuning a compromised set up but nonetheless he and I are proceeding with the tune.

porting the wg should be done with restraint and a lil skill, I could have done it (I have ported dozens of cylinder heads in my years in machine shop) but I honestly believed when I was told creep was no longer an issue. its a simple process so get it done.

please dont let this discourage you, this turbo kicks ass, spools super quick, holds power to redline, its really a great set up..... the wg is the only issue and that is seriously a 30 min fix.

any questions you have feel free to ask, as we each do our own builds we learn a little more each time and I am trying to do my part like others have done before me.

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by lenny127 consider your goals.... and consider your personality..do u chase more after u are done? 2871 i think is a killer set up for street fun.... but 3071 leaves a lil more room for increase.... and look at my logs look at log #9 and u will see how quickly this turbo spools.... at 2800 rpm i floor it and by 3300 i was in full boost at 20psi.... if thats not quick enough i dont know what is

Lenny, where is the post of these logs you reference........ I have seen some in this post: http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...tml#post652750

But they dont show the behavior/boost/rpms you describe, so maybe I am overlooking the post you mean.......please link

[rodrigo]

post 342

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...tml#post655298


top 3 logs r lowest boost setting on mbc

bottom 3 logs 20psi setting on mbc log #9 u can see where i floor it @2800 rpm and by 3300 rpm I am at 20psi ..... thats pretty fucken quick spooling

[jwilkins88]

Originally Posted by bmylez I will admit I don't know everything about the MS3 platform but...you're telling me the MS3 is going to be less efficient at making power than a 2.0L Focus with mild cams and head work? I will have my car the first week of January. It already has a built motor: Pauter rods and CP pistons as well as meth. Seems like 380 should be possible with that added safety.

I'm not saying I can't be done, I'm just saying that the 3071 would give you some more flexibility. I don't know of anyone off the top of my head making 380 on a 28, but that's not to say that it can't be done.

By no means am I trying to tell you what to do. I'm just saying what I, personally, would be more comfortable with. That's all.

[bmylez]

Originally Posted by jwilkins88 I'm not saying I can't be done, I'm just saying that the 3071 would give you some more flexibility. I don't know of anyone off the top of my head making 380 on a 28, but that's not to say that it can't be done. By no means am I trying to tell you what to do. I'm just saying what I, personally, would be more comfortable with. That's all.

I wasn't getting defensive or anything, haha. Just saying, the 2871 has been pushed to 400whp on a few different cars, so it's not unreasonable.

Only time will tell. I won't be doing this swap for a little while...and I'll be sure to make my own thread instead of posting in here!

[madvillain]

Originally Posted by bmylez Yeah, I'm 99% sure I'm going with 2871. Top mount manifold will be a little different and I like being different. What I have seen in my experience is that *everyone* always wants more. A guy I know made 396whp @ 24psi with his 2871 on a built motor Focus. I figure pumping out 380 on the MS3 should be safe and doable. Being able to destroy 2011 Mustangs and give Z06s a run for their money should keep me happy for at least a little while.

I'm with Wilkins on this one.. it'd be silly to aim for those numbers on a 2871. You will sacrifice very little to not spool time at all stepping up to a 3071. Hell, I say go for a 3076 since your motor is built. Stretching a 2871 that far isn't going to do you any good.

Knowing your motor is built you're going to keep wanting more, I can promise you that. You're going to top out that 2871, quickly get bored, and end up wanting to swap turbos again. As Joel said, not trying to tell you what to do, I'm jussayin'

[bmylez]

Oh, I totally understand what you guys are saying. My main argument is that I already own this turbo free and clear. If I sold it, I'd probably take a several hundred dollar hit. Only thing I would buy is a different exhaust housing because it has a Ford 5-bolt discharge and I definitely want v-band.

It's human nature to always want more, haha, but I really think I would be content for a long time with the 2871. Quickly glancing at the compressor map, it's true that I would be near the edge with a PR of ~2.8 at an air flow of 43 lbs/min. It seems that a lot of times, turbos perform above what their maps show. The guy I know who made 396 would technically be at the ragged edge of the choke line, but the turbo was flowing very strongly and actually had a little left in it.

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by bmylez Wow, SpeedSixxx really is a shit talker...first he puts me down and says I "don't know shit" and now he's saying you're making "faggot power." Keep up the good work. I'm still trying to decide between ATP 3071 or top mount with the 2871 I already own...

nah you don't know shit and you don't even own a speed yet.

don't talk to or about me and keep it to yourself nub.

you don't know my relationship with lenny or anyone so don't think you are gonna be eccepted and "cool" for trying to point out the obvious. I'm an asshole.....fuck off and donate you nub fuck.

lenny, I was just talkin shit. I hope you're happy with whatever you make and if not up the boost. good luck dude.

[rodrigo]

Originally Posted by bmylez Oh, I totally understand what you guys are saying. My main argument is that I already own this turbo free and clear. If I sold it, I'd probably take a several hundred dollar hit. Only thing I would buy is a different exhaust housing because it has a Ford 5-bolt discharge and I definitely want v-band. It's human nature to always want more, haha, but I really think I would be content for a long time with the 2871. Quickly glancing at the compressor map, it's true that I would be near the edge with a PR of ~2.8 at an air flow of 43 lbs/min. It seems that a lot of times, turbos perform above what their maps show. The guy I know who made 396 would technically be at the ragged edge of the choke line, but the turbo was flowing very strongly and actually had a little left in it.

if u think you would be content go for that 2871 man....dano2010 loves his, and I bet the 2871 gives more feedback to the driver than any other turbo, like I stated earlier I dont believe its about the "number" to achieve success, its about the combo and how well your parts match, good luck and keep us posted

[rigor]

you will ruin the turbo @ that hp range, and have problems with kr do to excess boosted temps, fact....

run it in its efficiency and sell when you want more powa!

[rodrigo]

Originally Posted by rigor you will ruin the turbo @ that hp range, and have problems with kr do to excess boosted temps, fact.... run it in its efficiency and sell when you want more powa!

this is why god created meth niggah..... if my lil ko4 can take 22 psi on meth that 2871 will be bangin' at them pressures also lol

anyways, reading up on boost control and trying to understand duty cycle etc etc I ran across this from Perrin which does a pretty awesome job in explaining how mbc, vs 2 port/3 port ebc etc etc.... if you aren't 100% certain on how it all works I suggest you spend 10 minutes reading this and it will make complete sense.

Perrin Performance - Boost control explained

[FreeFlyFreak]

FIXED:

Originally Posted by lenny127 ................if my lil ko4 cracked at 22 psi........

[rodrigo]

^^^ i would say getting 70k miles out of the ko4 running 22psi was a complete success.

[bmylez]

Yeah, I'll be running meth the whole time. The other thing is that if I go top mount, the turbo is easier to take off (especially with v-band downpipe). A 3071 should drop right in place of a 2871, so I shouldn't have to tweak anything at all.

[Dano]

FWIW

If I had it to do all over again I would go with a 3071.

When I got my GT28 the ECU load cap was still around so I didn't think I could "de-tune" a 3071 enough to stay under the cap...Dustin couldn't do it at that time so I sure as hell wasn't going to try lol

now with that said, here are some other things to consider

Bmyles, you are talking about a GT28 on a 2.0L focus motor and making XXX power...that's fine but we have a 2.3L so a 3071 is actually a better fit for the air volume our motors ingest, which is why it will be harder to make that same power on our MZR with a GT28

I personally made two runs 349 and 350WHP on a shitty...and I mean absolute shitty boost curve. Very little timing...OEM Exmain... So I am confident I can make 365-370WHP @ 21PSI. This is still in the efficiency range of the GT28 so if that is your goal I think it can be done. 380 as jwilks said, will be pushing it. but coin is coin and getting another turbo is costly...just be prepared to alter your goals a bit if it comes down to it.

ATP has done a fair job of porting the "new generation" of their turbos and for a bolt on solution, I don't think there is much room for improvement. If you wanted to start all over and didn't mind doing some slight fab work, save some coin and get a regular GT3071r T3 .63AR v-band EWG and a cool new SteedSpeed EWG mani.

oh and since my dyno thread is long gone I have attached my 350WHP runs and logs as an intermission before we get Lenny's and Xtains' tune results. Lenny I know you don't believe in sheets but theses do show the power potential of an ATP setup. [my fail tune at the time not withstanding LOL] I have since resolved all my boost occiliations issues and new SS exmani is on so again, I feel confident I have a 365-370WHP setup and will get back on the rollers this spring and maybe even a track somewhere...

[bmylez]

Wow, you weren't joking. That curve looks terrible, haha.

SteedSpeed exmani is the plan.

[Dano]

hahaha

yes you could feel the car "dancing" on the rollers....it was my first time at the dyno and I learned much...the same tune on the street didn't have this issue so it just goes to show how much different the car can react on the dyno vs. the street.

fastforward a couple of months and I have my boost issues resolved and my g/s has gone from 288 to over 300, 315 max. Some of that is of courese AMB temp related but most of the gain is due to a now steady boost curve.

[jwilkins88]

Originally Posted by Dano2010 hahaha yes you could feel the car "dancing" on the rollers....it was my first time at the dyno and I learned much...the same tune on the street didn't have this issue so it just goes to show how much different the car can react on the dyno vs. the street. fastforward a couple of months and I have my boost issues resolved and my g/s has gone from 288 to over 300, 315 max. Some of that is of courese AMB temp related but most of the gain is due to a now steady boost curve.

And it was corrected!!! OMFWTFBBQ!!!!11!!! FAKE!!!!

[bmylez]

You talking about corrected dyno numbers? When I dyno, I'll prolly post uncorrected because I care what my car makes where I live. I won't be racing people who aren't here.

[jwilkins88]

Originally Posted by bmylez You talking about corrected dyno numbers? When I dyno, I'll prolly post uncorrected because I care what my car makes where I live. I won't be racing people who aren't here.

It's a joke. Here at MSF, if you post corrected numbers, you get flamed... Read my dyno thread to get a taste of it.

Honestly, corrected numbers are better to tune by because they won't fluctuate based on weather, etc... My uncorrected numbers were actually higher than my corrected numbers.

[rigor]

you could proly pull off pixy dust dinojet #s with that turbo never on the heartbreaker?

[bmylez]

Not gonna try to start a debate, but the example I always use is a little blurb that English Racing posted. If you guys haven't heard of them, they're a little shop in Washington state that tunes the hell out of DSMs/EVOs. The owner has, to his knowledge, the highest hp stock turbo Evo IX (522whp, stock 16G).

Anyways, he said he had a customer dyno their car in New Mexico (way high up, over 5000 ft, I believe) and they used corrected numbers. It said they made 500whp or somethin. They shipped the car to English Racing (southern WA where it's not high up, close to sea level, actually), and the car made 380 or so, corrected, without touching anything.

[jwilkins88]

Originally Posted by bmylez Not gonna try to start a debate, but the example I always use is a little blurb that English Racing posted. If you guys haven't heard of them, they're a little shop in Washington state that tunes the hell out of DSMs/EVOs. The owner has, to his knowledge, the highest hp stock turbo Evo IX (522whp, stock 16G). Anyways, he said he had a customer dyno their car in New Mexico (way high up, over 5000 ft, I believe) and they used corrected numbers. It said they made 500whp or somethin. They shipped the car to English Racing (southern WA where it's not high up, close to sea level, actually), and the car made 380 or so, corrected, without touching anything.

Granted... But my point was that your dyno numbers will be consistent for your location regardless of weather or other variables that will change your numbers. As long are you're on the same dyno and tuning, corrected numbers are the best way to go

[Dano]

Originally Posted by jwilkins88 And it was corrected!!! OMFWTFBBQ!!!!11!!! FAKE!!!!

hahah

here is the uncorrected if it makes you feel better...more HP uncorrected FTW!

I live at ~300 ASL

[Dano]

Originally Posted by rigor you could proly pull off pixy dust dinojet #s with that turbo never on the heartbreaker?

very few here give two shits about any Mustang numbers, right? LOL


edit: if we keep talking dyno numbers in Lenny's thread these posts will disappear!

[jwilkins88]

Originally Posted by Dano2010 hahah here is the uncorrected if it makes you feel better...more HP uncorrected FTW! I live at ~300 ASL

Haha... That's how mine was. I had 409 corrected and 418 uncorrected. I was just giving you shit though man. I think your curve actually looked better uncorrected too haha