Dano's Boost Tuning 101 + Cool Stuff

[Dano]

That sounds about right to me as well...no more (table value X2+9) Either Cobb removed that logic, or the new table was causing it..IDK which.

So the table value should be very close to logged value +- LD, BD, and Baro compensations.

Just guessing at this point...i'll give it a whirl this weekend.

[Fobio]

I agree with superskater that even if the doubled values end up at or close to achieving targets, it's likely better to go under targets and tune up, just for safety...

moving on, I wonder if the new logic will also aid in effectively controlling boost in the lower gears like 1 - 2...I'm looking at offering my friends a new boost tune that's comparable to a load tune, but the real difference really only needs to be control of power in 1 - 2...3 - 6 can be balls out.

[Realgib3]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes the way i understood it is that it is now going to use exactly those values and theres no more need to double anything in any equation. HOWEVER, for some reason, just because you were targeting say 80 before to hit your desired boost (and were seeing 80's on your log for WGDC), this may not still hold true. so reduce your WGDC values and start your boost tuning again just to be sure. im not 100% on this but better safe then sorry.

This is how I understood it as well and if this logic is right then boost control should ne amazing now and I will be in love with Cobb. Someone should zero out all load tables in ATR just to test that load targets will really have no effect on a boost tune now...

[Abilor]

Might try that this weekend. Work is killing me ATM

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Fobio I agree with superskater that even if the doubled values end up at or close to achieving targets, it's likely better to go under targets and tune up, just for safety... moving on, I wonder if the new logic will also aid in effectively controlling boost in the lower gears like 1 - 2...I'm looking at offering my friends a new boost tune that's comparable to a load tune, but the real difference really only needs to be control of power in 1 - 2...3 - 6 can be balls out.

You can make a hybrid boost/load tune and use the load dynamics tables with the TRL X Gear tables to achieve your desired goal.

I use this in 1st and part of 2nd. Works like a charm. That, and its easier to target a load value to assist in traction since you can target a constant, optimal load (torque) value and let boost be what the ECU determines is necessary to achieve said load.

This is prior to the Beta update though. Haven't tried with the new update.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Realgib3 Someone should zero out all load tables in ATR just to test that load targets will really have no effect on a boost tune now...

or set them all to 3.5 so there is actually a non zero number in the tables.

[FORZDA 1]

Originally Posted by Dano2010 or set them all to 3.5 so there is actually a non zero number in the tables.

Yeah, I've had mine (all Load tables) set way outside the realm of possibility forever. I never had a problem with the boost shenangins until I fubar'ed the BD table....

[Fobio]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak You can make a hybrid boost/load tune and use the load dynamics tables with the TRL X Gear tables to achieve your desired goal. I use this in 1st and part of 2nd. Works like a charm. That, and its easier to target a load value to assist in traction since you can target a constant, optimal load (torque) value and let boost be what the ECU determines is necessary to achieve said load. This is prior to the Beta update though. Haven't tried with the new update.

That's basically what I've been advocating for the boost tuned guys prior to the beta's. I prefer to not have to work around the tables and with the new logic, I prefer to give pure boost tuning another go.

How's tuning coming along? You tuning with the new beta's?

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Fobio That's basically what I've been advocating for the boost tuned guys prior to the beta's. I prefer to not have to work around the tables and with the new logic, I prefer to give pure boost tuning another go. How's tuning coming along? You tuning with the new beta's?

Tuning will happen on Saturday. I just picked up the turbo this morning and it's going in tomorrow.

I also got off the phone with APH. Their dyno is being loaned out to another shop on Saturday. I guess it'll be street tuning for me!

[Nataphen]

I was itching to try it out now, so I updated before I left for lunch and took some logs. I'm mainly looking at WGDC right now, so I'll fine tune everything else later. My commanded WGDC held within 1%. Now, if you want 32% WGDC, you type in 32.00, and that's what it does. I also made the changes recommended by Cobb to the WG Dynamics tables. Now, I'll have to figure out the best way to adjust dynamics to reach my boost targets in varying conditions. Obviously, WGDC will be lower to reach the target boost in colder weather. So far, I believe that I like this.


EDIT: Also, this update enables FFS, LC, and idle tables on gen 2. I've been waiting for those for a while now.

[superskaterxes]

any one try the rad fan tables yet?

[Nataphen]

I changed mine to 90*C, but I didn't pay attention to coolant temps or fan kick on during my logs. I'll check it out later tonight and let you know.

[Nataphen]

skater, I just went out and checked, and the fan kicked on at 194*. As any of you guys with a unit converter will know, that is exactly 90*C, so we actually have a cooling fan control that fucking works now!

[Enki]

Originally Posted by Nataphen skater, I just went out and checked, and the fan kicked on at 194*. As any of you guys with a unit converter will know, that is exactly 90*C, so we actually have a cooling fan control that fucking works now!

Hopefully this works for Gen 1 now; gonna flash tonight and report back.

[manelscout4life]

Damn it I am actually satisfied with my current map but I would love to lower the rad fan temp. I wonder if it's possible to change it without having to worry about any of the new tables and different wgdc setup.

[Dano]

I'm liking the reports of goodness!!

Hope to get my hands on it this weekend.

[Enki]

Cross-posted from the radfan thread in the Cobb Tuning section.

Now running the beta version of both ATR and APM. Updated my map, saved to 190 deg F. and still no love. A log is linked.

I've also found one thing that does trouble me a fair bit; it used to be that when the car was above some unknown temperature threshold and was shut down, the radiator fan would kick on balls deep for a few seconds to cool down the water a fair bit. I've just realized it has not done this for quite some time (possibly since I started flashing with the AP).

The linked log shows the fan kicking on at a "high" 217 deg, and shutting off when it reaches a "low" 213. I shut the car down @ 217 and there was no audible sound from the radiator fan.

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...r-datalog1.csv

This makes me sad.

[manelscout4life]

Originally Posted by Enki Cross-posted from the radfan thread in the Cobb Tuning section. Now running the beta version of both ATR and APM. Updated my map, saved to 190 deg F. and still no love. A log is linked. I've also found one thing that does trouble me a fair bit; it used to be that when the car was above some unknown temperature threshold and was shut down, the radiator fan would kick on balls deep for a few seconds to cool down the water a fair bit. I've just realized it has not done this for quite some time (possibly since I started flashing with the AP). The linked log shows the fan kicking on at a "high" 217 deg, and shutting off when it reaches a "low" 213. I shut the car down @ 217 and there was no audible sound from the radiator fan. http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...r-datalog1.csv This makes me sad.

I've noticed something weird as well, when turning my car on after hard driving on a hot day my temp gauge will be up like 3/4s of the way, which caused me to shit my pants the first time I saw it, but it drops down to the halfway mark in like 5 seconds. Maybe the fan isn't turning on with the car off. Cobb please look into this!

[Nataphen]

Mine hasn't kicked on with the car off, but it is running with the car on at my commanded temps. Maybe gen 2 works and gen 1 doesn't.

[Enki]

I've emailed Cobb Tech about this. Hopefully they respond. Kind of scary stopping at a shop for a minute, coming back out and seeing 250+ on the coolant temp readout on the AP briefly.

[cld12pk2go]

FYI,

There is a glitch in the current version of ATR (even the beta...it was in the last version as well).

The "Radiator Fan - ECT Thresholds" tables shows °C even when standard units are selected and the axis displays °F.

I am currently running 90.56° (shows units of °F, but is really °C), which equates to 195°F.

[Nataphen]

Yes, good point. Remember that it's Celcius, guys. Mine's at 90 commanded, and it comes on at 194*F.

[Enki]

Must be a safety thing that it keeps it below 220 Fahrenheit then; gonna go test it.

[Enki]

Just reflashed with it set to 88 (190). Didn't come on till 219/220.

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Enki Just reflashed with it set to 88 (190). Didn't come on till 219/220.

What year/model do you have?

Mine is an 08 MS3...

So you have a table set to something like this?

[Enki]

09 (8.5 listed iirc)

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Enki 09 (8.5 listed iirc)

Is your table like the one in my edited post?

[m4tic]

so whats the point of the wga rpm comp tables?

[m4tic]

and what happened to the DBW tables?

[Enki]

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go Is your table like the one in my edited post?

I've had this set both ways; 88 and 190.

Edit: To keep thread on-topic, let's move this conversation to the thread already about this subject in the root of the Cobb section.

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by bmorrisj and what happened to the DBW tables?

Interesting.

My 08 MS3 maps didn't double the DBW tables at all...

[wolly6973]

genpu dbw tables didn't change for me either.

[Nataphen]

My dbw tables stayed the same. Just halve them and you'll be good though.

[manelscout4life]

Originally Posted by Enki I've emailed Cobb Tech about this. Hopefully they respond. Kind of scary stopping at a shop for a minute, coming back out and seeing 250+ on the coolant temp readout on the AP briefly.

When getting out of my car tonight I did notice the rad fan turn on. And that's with a map from the previous ATR

[Enki]

Mine turned on after this last test as well; perhaps that's what this table actually controls for me.

[Dano]

FWIW

I have not flashed this new FW but my fan always comes on after the car has been shut off.

07 model

guess I ginxed things with my last post. sorry

[m4tic]

anybody else have the double DBW tables, halve them and now have erratic throttle response? my throttle feels like its either "all or nothing" .. i cant retrieve old values with this version of ATR, all of my maps load with the high DBW values

[Fobio]

my DBW tables were NOT doubled.

[Dano]

Here are my slightly modified DBW A and C table values. I only changed the 80 to 100 so if you want completely stock values change the 100s to 80.

0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
1.50	1.00	1.00	1.00	1.00	1.00	1.00	1.00	1.00	1.00	1.00	1.00	1.00	2.00	2.00
1.70	1.50	1.50	1.50	1.80	2.00	2.00	2.00	2.00	2.00	2.00	2.00	2.00	3.50	3.50
1.90	2.50	2.60	2.60	2.90	3.30	3.00	2.60	3.00	3.00	3.00	4.00	4.00	5.00	5.00
2.10	3.50	4.40	4.40	4.60	4.90	4.60	4.50	3.90	4.50	4.50	5.50	6.00	7.00	5.80
2.30	4.00	5.00	5.70	6.10	6.50	6.40	6.20	6.00	6.70	7.00	7.00	7.60	8.10	7.70
2.50	4.50	5.50	7.30	7.80	8.20	7.80	7.60	7.60	8.20	8.40	8.90	9.90	9.60	9.60
2.70	5.00	6.80	9.50	9.70	9.90	9.80	9.20	9.20	10.00	10.10	10.40	11.40	11.20	10.30
2.90	5.50	8.20	10.90	11.30	11.70	11.00	10.70	10.50	11.40	11.70	12.00	12.20	12.50	12.20
3.10	6.00	10.00	12.60	12.80	13.10	12.50	12.30	11.80	12.20	12.60	13.10	13.80	13.80	14.10
5.30	7.20	11.70	14.20	14.50	14.80	13.80	13.20	12.80	13.30	14.50	14.40	14.70	14.90	16.70
7.40	9.40	13.60	15.90	16.10	16.40	15.50	14.40	13.60	14.50	15.30	15.50	16.00	15.80	19.30
18.00	11.10	16.10	17.90	17.90	17.90	16.50	15.30	14.70	15.60	16.00	16.50	17.80	19.50	22.50
60.00	22.00	18.60	19.00	18.70	18.30	17.10	16.10	15.80	16.90	17.30	18.20	19.50	21.50	24.10
60.00	60.00	20.30	20.50	20.00	19.50	17.80	16.90	16.50	17.70	18.60	19.70	21.10	22.00	27.00
60.00	60.00	23.80	22.00	26.00	25.55	24.02	23.21	22.85	23.93	24.74	25.73	26.99	27.80	32.30
60.00	60.00	35.60	33.80	32.00	31.60	30.24	29.52	29.20	30.16	30.88	31.76	32.88	33.60	37.60
60.00	60.00	70.00	54.00	38.00	37.65	36.46	35.83	35.55	36.39	37.02	37.79	38.77	39.40	42.90
60.00	60.00	70.00	57.00	44.00	43.70	42.68	42.14	41.90	42.62	43.16	43.82	44.66	45.20	48.20
60.00	60.00	70.00	60.00	50.00	49.75	48.90	48.45	48.25	48.85	49.30	49.85	50.55	51.00	53.50
60.00	60.00	70.00	100.00	56.00	55.80	55.12	54.76	54.60	55.08	55.44	55.88	56.44	56.80	58.80
60.00	60.00	70.00	100.00	62.00	61.85	61.34	61.07	60.95	61.31	61.58	61.91	62.33	62.60	60.00
60.00	60.00	70.00	100.00	68.00	67.90	67.56	67.38	67.30	67.54	67.72	67.94	68.22	68.40	60.00
60.00	60.00	70.00	100.00	74.00	73.95	73.78	73.69	73.65	73.77	73.86	73.97	74.11	74.20	60.00
60.00	60.00	70.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00
60.00	60.00	70.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00
60.00	60.00	70.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00
60.00	60.00	70.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00
60.00	60.00	70.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00
60.00	60.00	70.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00
60.00	60.00	70.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00
60.00	60.00	70.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00
60.00	60.00	70.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00	100.00

[m4tic]

thanks ill work with this.