How to scale the HPFP pressure sensor

[fjames]

Originally Posted by cpolly69 or total your car

Hasn't happened in 39 years of driving I firmly believe (others disagree) that the most important aspect of driving at speed is judgment, and that the most important element in judgment is knowing your limitations. What might be well within my skill-set may be beyond someone else's and when the consequences are more critical than a busted engine part it starts to matter. I was just trying to make the point that even though FWD sucks in a lot of different ways, you can still make it work in the right situation. I wish we didn't have to though, I'd take a RWD Prelude with negative torque numbers just for the driving pleasure of RWD.

[m4tic]

hurry up!!

[djuosnteisn]

Plot thickens lol. I guess ptp john is having some relief valves made that don't open till 2250psi. For the time being i'll prob still be fabbing up a threaded restrictor pill, but eventually i'll be taking a look at his new valves. If they work as intended, happy days.

[FreeFlyFreak]

I think I remember reading a post from ptp john saying he had burst a fuel rail during experimentation, so be careful all.
I definitely wouldn't go blocking that thing off completely.

[djuosnteisn]

AFAIK, he was messing with the spill valves when he did that, not the relief valve, but may have been both LOL.

And yeah, caution is definitely necessary.

[Realgib3]

Originally Posted by www.cp-e.com It is not fueling that is the issue. Your intank setup is GREAT and I would recommend it to everyone as it will be needed to make power RELIABLY. I do not know why you are arguing when we are commending your product. Is that what the cure to reaching power is? Plain and simple - NO. Turning up the fuel pressure is NOT the solution to making power. Turning up the fuel pressure was NECESSARY when we figured out how to get passed the "wall" that everyone was hitting. Your intank setup is a great add on and I recommend it to anyone who has big plans for this car.

Hmmm just caught this in another thread...not really buying it though...pressure is key, maybe not the only key but definitely key in the "solution"...

[Deadman]

well then if pressure isn't the key cobalt owners must know the secrets cpe does lol.
pressure is the key imo... gogogogo

[mkriebs]

Cobalt owners don't know shit. PLEASE! Lol.


Pressure has worked for us thus far. So, gonna go ahead and bet my life savings... all $0.25 of it, that CPe is wrong on that front. Unless they know something even us godly Cobalt owners don't...


Lol.

[kore2000]

Well CPE put a big claim out there that they found the problem and eliminated the wall that everyone was hitting. Now they have to live up to it. If they did find it, then they will make a lot of money, if they didn't they will look stupid, but either way everyone should stop hatin' on them and let them just present their findings. Let's just hear what they have to say before you trash it.

[superskaterxes]

the throttle plate thing has been debated forever. throttle position at idle is like 12% and WOT is like 88% so if you add the 2 together then you get 100. the plate is technically opening the full 100 (give or take a few degrees) even though the sensors are only saying 88. if you look at the DH theres like 7 different throttle position related PID's

[SpeedSixxx]

yeah, what did they figure out? whats this wall?...lol

I assume the secret they talkin about is.."not just upping fuel pressure" they prob think they are slick saying its not just that..IMO the secret is not just upping it BUT tuning for it as well....LOL...we will see

thats their and whoever else's lil scam on keeping you on a lil hook...

and in a month from now they will come out and say "yes, we upped the fuel pressure but then we TUNED for it and damn we made more power, now buy a SB and all our bolt ons and we will do our "special" tune for you to break that magical wall"

hey i could be totally wrong and if so good for me...i'll be tuning with the djckt when i get tuned at akuma..all is needed is the pressure relief valve fix and John at PTP is workin on that as well.

doesn't out throttle plate only open up 80% also?? i wonder if cp-e's wall is just getting the throttle plate to open 100%. can we do that in ATr or protune software

[mkriebs]

Do y'all have ETC (drive by wire throttle)? Our data logs on the balts show that the throttle only opens 80%, when it actually opens 100%. It has to do with the signal from the TPS, and the ETC. Not sure if its just a problem with our datalogger, or not.

As for CPe. I bet they figured out how to raise the pressure, then they got something made like the restrictor pill. But, of course... in our communities, if you didn't make it a secret, then you wouldn't be a good vendor.

[Realgib3]

Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx yeah, what did they figure out? whats this wall?...lol I assume the secret they talkin about is.."not just upping fuel pressure" they prob think they are slick saying its not just that..IMO the secret is not just upping it BUT tuning for it as well....LOL...we will see thats their and whoever else's lil scam on keeping you on a lil hook... and in a month from now they will come out and say "yes, we upped the fuel pressure but then we TUNED for it and damn we made more power, now buy a SB and all our bolt ons and we will do our "special" tune for you to break that magical wall" hey i could be totally wrong and if so good for me...i'll be tuning with the djckt when i get tuned at akuma..all is needed is the pressure relief valve fix and John at PTP is workin on that as well.

I would be willing to bet a LOT of money that this is the case... They upped the pressure and then tuned it...We'll all find out soon enough I guess but I can't help but think the cp-e is just trying to keep us hooked, and make people question what we're doin with the ckt and restrictor...just my opinion, but I've seen too much proof on my own car that fuel pressure controls EVERYTHING else with how the car runs. It jsut makes sense... whats the major difference between PI and DI... well aside from the obvious, that fuel is direcly injected into the cylinder, the only other difference is PRESSURE. In the last 2 months I have had TONS of time to see exactly how the ecu will react to a lack of fuel pressure. When my neww motor was put in by the dealer, they re-used my stock hpfp, which was a total fail, thus for 2 months I have been running ~400psi fuel pressure wot. Now, during this time, my AFR's hit dead on 11.8 as I had requested...but made NOOOOOO power. Well thankfully, my long fight with mazda got me a brand new pump, and from the first drive, my AFR's hit dead on 11.8, but made a LOT more power. There is a lot more goin on behind the scenes with this ecu, but the bottom line is untill I am proven wrong, fuel pressure i the key. Some way or another it is a major part in making the power we want.

Oh...and if and WHEN the ckt reaches plug and play status...I want the first one!!!

[cpolly69]

Originally Posted by mkriebs Do y'all have ETC (drive by wire throttle)? Our data logs on the balts show that the throttle only opens 80%, when it actually opens 100%. It has to do with the signal from the TPS, and the ETC. Not sure if its just a problem with our datalogger, or not. As for CPe. I bet they figured out how to raise the pressure, then they got something made like the restrictor pill. But, of course... in our communities, if you didn't make it a secret, then you wouldn't be a good vendor.

we do have throttle by wire - and i was under the impression that cpe's fcf already does open the throttle 100%

[Realgib3]

Originally Posted by cpolly69 we do have throttle by wire - and i was under the impression that cpe's fcf already does open the throttle 100%

the way i understand it is atr and the standback allow you to keep the throttle open all the way to redline, but that 100% open in actuality is only physically 80% open.

[cpolly69]

standback doesn't do anything with the throttle plate mapping - you have to buy a separate flash for that - the full control flash - this is one of the big "cpe's a ripp off" points - that the cobb is more of a 1 stop shop - there's a thread that discusses what is really happening here somewhere -

[hnda etr]

Originally Posted by cpolly69 standback doesn't do anything with the throttle plate mapping - you have to buy a separate flash for that - the full control flash - this is one of the big "cpe's a ripp off" points - that the cobb is more of a 1 stop shop - there's a thread that discusses what is really happening here somewhere -

Originally Posted by Realgib3 the way i understand it is atr and the standback allow you to keep the throttle open all the way to redline, but that 100% open in actuality is only physically 80% open.

Just a reminder, here's the link to Cobb's report on throttle plate control:
http://www.accessecu.com/accessport/...S3%20v1.01.pdf

[SpeedSixxx]

here is some info from the cobalt guys...maybe it can help?
maybe the injector diameters are the same or similar?

Cobalt's ECU is BOSCH MOTRONIC

Cobalt's injectors are proven Motorsport injectors.
http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/pdf/c..._HP/HDEV_5.pdf

Cobalt Fuel Pump are a proven Motorsport pump.
http://www.bosch-motorsport.com/pdf/...umps/HDP_5.pdf

Bosch MS pump
http://www.turbo-cobalt.com/engine/G..._fuel_pump.jpg

http://www.turbo-cobalt.com/engine/G...fuel_pump2.jpg


Bosch MS Injectors
http://turbo-cobalt.com/engine/GM_me...l_inj_side.jpg

http://www.turbo-cobalt.com/engine/G...jector_tip.jpg

[evidence]

Originally Posted by mkriebs Do y'all have ETC (drive by wire throttle)? Our data logs on the balts show that the throttle only opens 80%, when it actually opens 100%. It has to do with the signal from the TPS, and the ETC. Not sure if its just a problem with our datalogger, or not.

I'm forgetting the names of the PIDs right now, but the on that goes to 80 (for us i think 78/79 is the max), it's actually the angle. So 90 would be 100%. There is another PID I'd have to dig for that shows the true %.

Edit: Found my other post on it

Actual pedal position is how far down your foot is (%, actually goes to 100%), relative throttle is how far the throttle plate is open in degrees, but it only goes to mid/low 70s. On absolute throttle 90 is the most you will ever see, but it's unclear whether this is actually an angle (90 degrees, straight open), or if the car is just limited to 90% like many drive by wire.

[mkriebs]

Yeah, thats the same issue as us on the balt. I think ours goes to 88% though.

[spnkr21]

Injector pulse tuning??? Plus upping the pressure?? I wonder what supporting mods u need to run this from cp-e. Hopefully I can trade in my old standback for version3 if that's the case.

[Realgib3]

If they opened up Injector pulse tables I would be impressed, but I'm still betting they haven't, but soon we shall see...

[SilverDemon]

I will have about 6 of these done (if my work load is not too big) on Saturday. DJ, PM me with your address I can send them to you (if you are still interested in them), so you can get them to the people that have your beta circuit.

[superskaterxes]

sweeeeeeettttttt

silverdemon is my hero

[SilverDemon]

The funny part of this is I am on the clock when I made them, and the company bought the die!!! LOL

[djuosnteisn]

They're beautiful! Thanks soooo much man!

I'm very excited to try one out.


I pm'd you my address, so you can either send them all to me, and i can redistribute, or if you want you can send to some some others at the same time you send to me.

Socks is probably jumping ship pretty soon to cp-e setup, so i don't think he'll be running the ckt anymore.

Super is def running the ckt.

I'm running it.


um... And i think that's it for now lol. Anthony pm him your addy as well.

[SilverDemon]

Got your PM, I'll let you send them to the people that need them. You are most welcomed!!!

[SpeedSixxx]

DJ , I'll be installing ckt soon with in the month.

I'll take the restrictor please! so correct me if i'm wrong...

Having a PTP HPFP installed on avg you should have how much rail pressure at WOT>?
and then when installing the CKT and restrictor I should have how much PSI at WOT in comparison? 2200PSI compared to 1800 maybe 1900 PTP without ckt?

again correct me if i'm wrong..

[m4tic]

sooo we gave up?

[SpeedSixxx]

i dunno...I doubt we is giving up.

maybe all this cpe and RR talk has made ppl chill for a lil while and wait to see whats good in tha gizzard.

I'm sure if cpe has done anything on the lines of what lex and dj are doing we can use their info wehn available to help us make a few more horses without going crazy...

[superskaterxes]

were just waiting for the pills to get to dustin so he can test them.

[SilverDemon]

Originally Posted by bmorrisj sooo we gave up?

No, in fact I just sent DJ 6 of the restrictors for a test fit in one of his spare fuel rails. He is going to send me a relief valve and another fuel rail so I can see first hand what I am trying to make. I also have a vast resource of vendors that deal with off the wall parts, including relief valves that may be used in our application. I will know more on that subject after the 1st of the year. Even if I can find a relief valve, we are still stopped at the sensor, but I believe that will be easier to find than the valve...

[djuosnteisn]

And sensor should be good for 20% theoretically anyway, which aint too bad IMO.

As soon as i get the pills, i test fit... if they fit, i install... if i install, i do some pulls and worst case analysis (cold start when injectors are injecting very lil but rail pressure is very high, and likely creating worst case pressure with a pill installed)... if analysis goes well and i don't blow up my fuel rail, i dyno.


and even if the pills don't fit, i think i'm gonna dyno with just a half turn regardless lol.




And i've been working on new ckt, but things have been wild for holidays and my b-day. I mean really freaking wild.. like animal planet wild.

[JumpingJackson]

The high pressure line that goes to the fuel line fails around 2400-2500 psi by the way, so i wouldnt go any higher than ~2250 or so.

[djuosnteisn]

Yeah, starts to leak from what john said. Let's hope i don't get too high, lol.

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn And i've been working on new ckt, but things have been wild for holidays and my b-day. I mean really freaking wild.. like animal planet wild.

this wild?!?!?




sry i couldent resist the chance to post a random pict as you have been doing all over this forum haha

[djuosnteisn]

Even wilder

[Lex]

Everyone seems to miss the fact that if CPE is raising pressure, they are also running into the relief valve problem. Yet there is no mention of this anywhere in their discussion.

[djuosnteisn]

Rumor on the grapevine is that cp-e's fix has nothing to do with fuel.



I'm starting to believe it now. I can't even speculate what it would be.