Injector Seals Replaced

[aaronc7]

Ok so me, baloon (baluums3), and brandon (sls ms3) replaced my injector seals this weekend. All said and done everything went well and fixed my "rattle" or "pop" at WOT. Car runs flawless now. Thanks to darksun and palerider and all the others who helped me pinpoint my issue to the injectors and not waste $100 on these things. Also Mark @ SU is the man. He knew I needed some... they came in a few days early so he gave me a call on my cell so I could get em shipped out that day! And of course to the guys who helped with the install!

We went ahead and did the EGR delete while we were there, and it was obvious how much of a POS that EGR system is. I have 2 catch cans and been running meth for quite awhile and it was still pretty nasty...right around the EGR. It was funny because the front side of the throttle body was perfectly clean, the back side was gross (right by EGR). Also the valves and stuff are pretty nasty, we tried loosening it a little by putting some seafoam on...who knows how much it helped though. I will probably be seafoaming more often now to try and help loosen and break up the carbon buildup.

It was kind of a bitch getting everything off, especially the fuel rail and injectors and such. But we finally got it all off. The other 3 injector seals looked alright, but we replaced all of them while we were there.

By the time we were putting everything back together it was like 1 or 2 AM, so a few dumb mistakes were made...kind of funny. First time we started it back up it idled and ran fine... I revved it 3 times to purge the meth system and then the engine died.... started it back up and it was idling at 9 AFR and was in limp mode....wtf. Went back to the garage and found that I forgot to put the throttle body gasket on (doh lol). We couldn't find anything else wrong and just thought that maybe somehow that was causing a big leak (even though it didnt seem all that logical or possible for that huge of a leak..). Anyways we called it quits for the night. Next morning I take off the cold pipe to get to the throttle body, and I notice my front mount pipe is not even remotely connected....apparenly it was not clamped down very good and just popped off. Put that back on (and the throttle body gasket) and everything ran great. Just goes to show how stupid mistakes happen when you get rushed or go at it really late. I didn't find any pizza in the intake at least.

Again a big thanks to Baluu and SLS... and Baluu also for introducing me to whataburger at 3/4 AM.

Here's some pics showing proper direction of the seals and misc install pics. We made our own block off plates for the EGR delete.





























This is the injector that was leaking



That injector was coated in soot and took forever to clean, and even then still had a lot of carbon caked on.

[MATT DAMOND]

Nice, i'm doing the injector seal on my 944 soon, ALOT easier for me though.

Nator Performance FTW!

[bioevolve]

Awsome NATOR job! Now I'm gonna have to do it lol. What is the part number for the seals?

[aaronc7]

It's sad that I have this memorized....

L3K9-13-252

There's like 4 or 5 total injector seals, but all the other ones are in the fuel rail to injector connection.... the one above is that one between block and injector, and that one that will/might blow out. List price is like $27 each, ouch.

[gsrtype1]

cool man!

[wakeboarddude]

Damn! Seems like a shit load of work! At least it stops rattling now!

[MarkyMark]

You didn't say who you got them from, super douche.

[aaronc7]

Originally Posted by StreetUnitMark You didn't say who you got them from, super douche.

oh yeah, lol. i edited

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by aaronc7 oh yeah, lol. i edited

no worries.

JumpingJackson, you're next!!!!!!

[IshiKage]

Nator...makes you want to straddle a brotha!!!

[Lex]

Awesome job! I'm surprised how much soot you've got in there but if it's any comfort long terms tests show that soot buildup does not affect performance in the amounts you are seeing.

How many miles on the motor and how many miles with meth?

[aaronc7]

Originally Posted by Lex Awesome job! I'm surprised how much soot you've got in there but if it's any comfort long terms tests show that soot buildup does not affect performance in the amounts you are seeing. How many miles on the motor and how many miles with meth?

I have close to 49k miles. Meth..... less than 10k miles but I didn't just put it on or anything. probably like 5 or 6 or something.

[ljudgeii]

AaronC7, Thanks for the PMs. Mark I will be giving you a call real soon about getting some new seals

[SLS MS3]

I knew a coupler blew off somewhere. Daylight really helps to find those kind of problems.

[aaronc7]

also interesting to note that my 3rd cylinder (which is the one that had leaky seal...) has shown issues for quite some time in the spark plugs. My cylinder 3 spark plug looked like shit whenever I changed them, so I ended up replacing it twice as often as the others. Even back when I just had intake and TBE....3rd cylinder was different than the rest. I don't know if the seal was causing it to foul faster or....some other issue causing it to foul faster and thus killed the seal. I'll keep an eye on the plugs now iwth the new seals.

[YammerR1]

Did your car throw a misfire code for cylinder 3? I have a constant misfire CEL on one of my cylinders and compression tests good on all cylinders. I replaced the spark plug and a day later the same misfire code came back. I checked the plug and it was completely fouled.

Originally Posted by aaronc7 also interesting to note that my 3rd cylinder (which is the one that had leaky seal...) has shown issues for quite some time in the spark plugs. My cylinder 3 spark plug looked like shit whenever I changed them, so I ended up replacing it twice as often as the others. Even back when I just had intake and TBE....3rd cylinder was different than the rest. I don't know if the seal was causing it to foul faster or....some other issue causing it to foul faster and thus killed the seal. I'll keep an eye on the plugs now iwth the new seals.

[SPD6Tuner]

Originally Posted by YammerR1 Did your car throw a misfire code for cylinder 3? I have a constant misfire CEL on one of my cylinders and compression tests good on all cylinders. I replaced the spark plug and a day later the same misfire code came back. I checked the plug and it was completely fouled.

I have the same problem. I am going to try to replace the seals on my car and see if I can get rid of this cel.

[aaronc7]

Originally Posted by YammerR1 Did your car throw a misfire code for cylinder 3? I have a constant misfire CEL on one of my cylinders and compression tests good on all cylinders. I replaced the spark plug and a day later the same misfire code came back. I checked the plug and it was completely fouled.

Not sure man.. it could be. If the leak was bad enough. If your leak is that bad...that probably means its leaking at idle, and you probably wouldnt even really be able to get into boost without loud noises or other issues. My seals would only leak (pop sound) when above 15 psi usually. When I ran WG pressure or even stock map..it was still there occasionally, but not near as much or near as loud as it was at 20 psi. In my case I caught it pretty early on and took care of it...I talked to a few guys like darksun, and he said his would pop and stuff if free-reved it. He also had 2 cylinders leaking I think.

If you're just getting that code, but the car runs and boosts fine otherwise, then it might be something else.

[YammerR1]

Yup, STFT and LTFT are always negative at idle, STFT usually dips to -20% after car is warmed up... could be a bad injector or maybe the seal. I swapped coil packs around and the same cylinder still misfires. My car is stock and I don't get any pops when WOT or revving it.

Originally Posted by aaronc7 Not sure man.. it could be. If the leak was bad enough. If your leak is that bad...that probably means its leaking at idle, and you probably wouldnt even really be able to get into boost without loud noises or other issues. My seals would only leak (pop sound) when above 15 psi usually. When I ran WG pressure or even stock map..it was still there occasionally, but not near as much or near as loud as it was at 20 psi. In my case I caught it pretty early on and took care of it...I talked to a few guys like darksun, and he said his would pop and stuff if free-reved it. He also had 2 cylinders leaking I think. If you're just getting that code, but the car runs and boosts fine otherwise, then it might be something else.

[SPD6Tuner]

Originally Posted by YammerR1 Yup, STFT and LTFT are always negative at idle, STFT usually dips to -20% after car is warmed up... could be a bad injector or maybe the seal. I swapped coil packs around and the same cylinder still misfires. My car is stock and I don't get any pops when WOT or revving it.

I read about something that may fix your problem since your car is stock. Its called load racing. You put you car into neutral and you rev it to 4000rpms for 2 minutes and after 2 minutes it will automatically go down to idle. You then let it idle for 1 minute. Then again 4000rpms for 2 minutes untill it goes down again. Clear the code and see if it comes back. I removes carbon builup and also removes the pre-applied code that was not cleared from the factory. This was for the cars under a certain vin and before a certain date. I forgot what they were, but it wouldnt hurt to try. I tried it but didnt work cause of all the stuff I have done to it I guess.

[Darksun280]

BOOYA!!! glad I was right I love beating car gremlins

[SPD6Tuner]

With my misfire, I have tried removing my HKS unit, replaceing coils, and replacing plugs, but no luck. Im thinking maybe I have an insufficient tune. Could that have anything to do with it. Its fully built with a bunch of stuff. It sucks for me, cause I am in NY and cant get my car inspected.

[fbpem1]

yeah lets not thank me the one who pointed you there first

[aaronc7]

BTW we pretty much followed the service manual and common sense for removal of everything...it would be pretty sweet if someone could "crop out" the pertinent pages in the service manual and post it up on here? That would make this thread more of a "how to" vs just random pics and stuff.

[wakeboarddude]

This might be a stupid question but i tried searching and didnt find much. What does the EGR delete do? And what is an EGR?

[aaronc7]

Originally Posted by wakeboarddude This might be a stupid question but i tried searching and didnt find much. What does the EGR delete do? And what is an EGR?

Exhaust gas recirculation.... it's basically an emissions thing. It recirculates some exhausts gases back into the intake manifold (stupid huh?). Apparently it's only active at part throttle, not WOT...so the issue isn't boosted temps or anything, its just the fact that in this recirculation process, it brings a lot of soot and crap back into the intake manifold. I have 2 catch cans and meth now for awhile... my intake mani was pretty clean, except right around the EGR port...so it's definitely a big source of crap getting into the manifold and engine. Keep in mind it will give you a CEL but it doesn't affect anything. You can disable the code in ATR...but the CEL light still comes on (but the dashhawk/AP won't see the code)..its kinda weird.

[Gr33ntumb]

shit i think i need to get this done also


-15 to -20 stft and ltft is what i see...



"If your leak is that bad...that probably means its leaking at idle, and you probably wouldnt even really be able to get into boost without loud noises or other issues."

i am having some knock ( audible and on AP ) well that is if knock sounds like my car is making popcorn, on some WOT runs only tho ... seems like its more after like following a car doing normal driving , then he turns off , and i nail it , and POPOPTAPOTPTOAP cAr feels like shit ,... then 10 seconds after i nail it again and i get full boost showing 0 kr and everything seems fine ...

i just got to bring it to the dealer with the CEL on ...after unmarrying my AP it cleared my code .


and well if anyone remembers i whas saying i had a WOT rattle before also but only in 1 , 2 , 3 gear ... well that whas a busted passenger side mount ,. not just the bushing part but , cracked metal casting and all .... feels like a new car now . almost

[SLS MS3]

Originally Posted by aaronc7 BTW we pretty much followed the service manual and common sense for removal of everything...it would be pretty sweet if someone could "crop out" the pertinent pages in the service manual and post it up on here? That would make this thread more of a "how to" vs just random pics and stuff.

I hope that someone isn't supposed to be me cause I'm lazy. But I guess that would give me something to do while I'm bored at work tomorrow.

[aaronc7]

thank you, you have now nominated yourself. I would do it but i have no idea how and dont have the software to make pdfs!

[wakeboarddude]

Thanks Aaron! So if you plug it it just goes out the exhuast like normal? this sounds retarded to do in the first place lol! So to do the delet would I have to take out the mani and plug the hole or you think I can get to it without removing to much! I think I know were the ports are cause I remember seeing it when I did the dp and furl pump internals.

[wakeboarddude]

And now thinking about that whole process of an egr...WTF was Mazda thinking! How would it help anything if exhaust gases re-enter the intake process on a combustion engine! Obviously there is little to no oxygen to be combusted so it's just filling the cylinders with useless mass! Am I wrong or does this sound really really stupid!

[socks]

Originally Posted by wakeboarddude And now thinking about that whole process of an egr...WTF was Mazda thinking! How would it help anything if exhaust gases re-enter the intake process on a combustion engine! Obviously there is little to no oxygen to be combusted so it's just filling the cylinders with useless mass! Am I wrong or does this sound really really stupid!

It wasnt mazdas thinking, it was the federal governments thinking. It reduces NOx emmisions...

[wakeboarddude]

Originally Posted by Speed3shon It wasnt mazdas thinking, it was the federal governments thinking. It reduces NOx emmisions...

Stupid government!

[all4bspinnin]

sometimes cars run rich from the factory and thanks to all the tree loving government officials we have to have emissions crap like this...


Guys, just a quick question.... does the CEL cause the car to pull timing/boost on cars tuned by the cobb AP????

[SLS MS3]

no

[fbpem1]

it wasn't the government who invented EGR and EGR is borderline defunct now as you can do the same thing with cam timing....i have said this numerous times.

[SPD6Tuner]

I am replacing my seals right now and wanted to know how much fuel came out of your fuel line when you removed the fuel rail. I removed the line a little and fuel started coming out so I out it right back on. It should only be the fuel after the pump correct? Also How did you get those black allen bolts off. I cant get them twisted off.

[SLS MS3]

Not very much fuel, most of the pressure had already been relieved. And those aren't allen bolts, they are torx.

[SPD6Tuner]

Yea that's the first name that came to mind even though I knew they weren't Allen bolts. Anyway how did you get them lose. They seem impossible. Do I even have to remove those to get to the injector the rail feels lost but there is something stopping it from coming out.

[SPD6Tuner]

I broke 2 T40 sockets and have no car to go buy another one. One of which was a craftsman. I have to get to sears to replace it, so I am going to have to stop untill tomorrow. But I did find my misfire problem. Cylinder 3 has a seal leak and is very dirty like aaronc's.