Injector seals solution - Gen 2

[Snotrocket]

Originally Posted by mazdafreak @Snotrocket, did u replace anything else, like studs, washers or just replaced the stock injector seals with these Toyota ones?? Thanks.

Just seals.


Tapped

[mazdafreak]

Ahh okay thank u!

[Nataphen]

I didn't realize that PTP sold a stud kit, that's cool. I have a set of the studs, nuts, and washers from Fastenal back when we first figured out all the part numbers, but now since I have to order another set for the other car, I won't have to go digging around for that thread or my receipt. Word.

[Snotrocket]

now as far as i understand it if i have leakage it will show up as false knock? How much knock usually? are there any other tell tail signs?

[phate]

Originally Posted by Snotrocket now as far as i understand it if i have leakage it will show up as false knock? How much knock usually? are there any other tell tail signs?

Yeah, the magnitude of kr will depend on how bad the seals are. If you find that you are getting kr, run 2-3 gallons of E85 in a tank of fuel. If the knock is still present, something else is causing kr. Either noise or seals.

[Snotrocket]

Today i took the time to redo these seals because as you know i put them in flat side to the head originally. They are now sitting flat side to the injector as suggested by everyone here. I am a slightly concerned now tho as i am getting some consistent knock between 3000-4000 RPM when my loads are the highest. Because we can not get E85 here in ontario i decided to flash with the cobb stage 2 93 oct shelf map. I am still getting this knock.. Could this be an issue with the seals?

Edit: Knock is less then 1 degree and resolves post 4000

[mrmonk7663]

It is possible the seal isn't functionion due to it being slightly compressed upside down. Perhaps buy another set.

[xb2ms3]

try octane booster if you cant get e85

[TiGraySpeed6]

Originally Posted by Snotrocket Today i took the time to redo these seals because as you know i put them in flat side to the head originally. They are now sitting flat side to the injector as suggested by everyone here. I am a slightly concerned now tho as i am getting some consistent knock between 3000-4000 RPM when my loads are the highest. ...Could this be an issue with the seals?

I didn't think these toyota seals could be re-used. I thought they deformed as they created the seal, and if removed & reinstalled would never be able to properly form the seal again.

I'm gonna say redo with a fresh set

[daztdMS6]

Originally Posted by TiGraySpeed6 I didn't think these toyota seals could be re-used. I thought they deformed as they created the seal, and if removed & reinstalled would never be able to properly form the seal again. I'm gonna say redo with a fresh set

+1 on this. Redo

[Snotrocket]

i used new ones... I'm never doing them again.. lol

[G26]

Originally Posted by Snotrocket Today i took the time to redo these seals because as you know i put them in flat side to the head originally. They are now sitting flat side to the injector as suggested by everyone here. I am a slightly concerned now tho as i am getting some consistent knock between 3000-4000 RPM when my loads are the highest. Because we can not get E85 here in ontario i decided to flash with the cobb stage 2 93 oct shelf map. I am still getting this knock.. Could this be an issue with the seals? Edit: Knock is less then 1 degree and resolves post 4000

KR less than 1 degree around max torque is pretty normal. I'd say I get this in 75% of my logs since I have had my AP.

[Snotrocket]

Originally Posted by G26 KR less than 1 degree around max torque is pretty normal. I'd say I get this in 75% of my logs since I have had my AP.

i hear ya.. i was getting the same.. only now I'm getting it in 100% of my logs.... Maybe its a non issue i dunno.

[G26]

Originally Posted by Snotrocket i hear ya.. i was getting the same.. only now I'm getting it in 100% of my logs.... Maybe its a non issue i dunno.

Phate had a thread on it, said it was normal. Either way, my seals are getting done at 20k miles (at 15k right now)

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by Snotrocket Today i took the time to redo these seals because as you know i put them in flat side to the head originally. They are now sitting flat side to the injector as suggested by everyone here. I am a slightly concerned now tho as i am getting some consistent knock between 3000-4000 RPM when my loads are the highest. Because we can not get E85 here in ontario i decided to flash with the cobb stage 2 93 oct shelf map. I am still getting this knock.. Could this be an issue with the seals? Edit: Knock is less then 1 degree and resolves post 4000

False.

[Snotrocket]

Ok,correction... It's a pain in the ass for me to get.


Tapped

[knarfies]

Found a local dealer in ABQ NM that had to order them but they will be here tomorrow at $1.90 a pop.

[aviator79]

Originally Posted by thatsmrgimp2u I ordered the ptp studs... Was worth the 40 bucks to not have to cut the old bolts. Im going to put the studs in just past hand tight with red loctite and torq the nuts to ~17ft/lbs.

Wow you must be rich...

Originally Posted by Dano ...it was my understanding the washers it comes with actually fits the crow's feet better than the tapered OE washer. The thought is the taper doesn't allow for even TQ distribution across the foot and is why they work lose...

Thats a bunch of same BS IMO but good advertising as expected...

Originally Posted by Snotrocket This may have been answered but i don't have time to go through the thread.. can anyone tell me what way they go in? Flat side to block or to injector?

Doesnt matter IMO...

Originally Posted by ColonR You need (4) 8mm x 1.25 pitch studs 46mm or 50mm in length. You also need 4 flat washers and 4 nuts for them as well. You have to cut the old bolts to get the tapered washers off and you will reuse them after drilling them out to 8mm holes. I reused the torx tho i as to lazy to get new studs haha someone earlier mentioned the torque you need.

If getting studs be sure that if they are not threaded all the way down that you get ones short enought that will allow you to tighten the nut all the way down before it bottoms out. I mentioned this before. The ones I got at sears I had to use were like 40mm.

Originally Posted by ColonR the flat part should be facing the base of the injector so it gets a tight seal. the rounded will face out.

Is this per toyata install manual?

Originally Posted by thatsmrgimp2u Welp just picked mine up. Dont look brass though. There is a rounded and flat side. I have never taken out to the injectors and these are new to me, so go easy on me.... What part faces the injector? Flat or round? @ColonR Sent from an iPhone conformist using Tapatalk

I didnt even noticed a difference in sides. They will both be deformed once crushed. The flat or curved side is probably just due the tool press used to make them.

Originally Posted by Snotrocket Today i took the time to redo these seals because as you know i put them in flat side to the head originally. They are now sitting flat side to the injector as suggested by everyone here. I am a slightly concerned now tho as i am getting some consistent knock between 3000-4000 RPM when my loads are the highest. Because we can not get E85 here in ontario i decided to flash with the cobb stage 2 93 oct shelf map. I am still getting this knock.. Could this be an issue with the seals? Edit: Knock is less then 1 degree and resolves post 4000

Are you sure you didnt reuse the same seals? Should have left it alone while it was working and it would have been fine. Maybe you didnt tighten one enogh this time. Do it again! what a PITA...

[Snotrocket]

@aviator79 I did them again anyway but I'm getting the same minor knock at peak torque as i was with them flat side to the head...

[aviator79]

I dont have my DH or AP hooked up so ive no idea if im knocking. But car seams to be running great so im happy for now until I can figure out how to use the AP thingamagig.

[Snotrocket]

Originally Posted by aviator79 I dont have my DH or AP hooked up so ive no idea if im knocking. But car seams to be running great so im happy for now until I can figure out how to use the AP thingamagig.

The AP thingamajig is pretty easy to use...

[Dano]

Originally Posted by aviator79 Thats a bunch of same BS IMO but good advertising as expected...

I think I'll respectfully disagree with you until I have had both side by side. The PTP washers are uber thick and flat on one side that faces the crow's foot. I doubt very seriously the OE setup is as substantial.

stay tuned for an objective review with pics...

[aviator79]

Originally Posted by Snotrocket The AP thingamajig is pretty easy to use...

Time is my issue...have none. Work is crazy, sent me to WPB twice in past month to work a sikorsky facility down there on new helicopter manual, working 80 hours this week and for the next few weeks on update to another manual and then likely back down to WPB for may. Plus stereo install ive been working on for 3 years I still cant get working right, installing MF CBE that I like but had to remove mufflers to cut off tips (hated my CPE dual), fish pond needs spring cleaning along with all the other house/yard work I need to do. And an 8mo boy. Just wish I had DJ or LEX or somone local that could just tune my car for me as I have no time.

[aviator79]

Originally Posted by Dano I think I'll respectfully disagree with you until I have had both side by side. The PTP washers are uber thick and flat on one side that faces the crow's foot. I doubt very seriously the OE setup is as substantial. stay tuned for an objective review with pics...

So it just a big fat washer? OEM washer are fine IMO is all I am saying. No need to spend $40, but again that is just my opinion which is obviusly correct...haha. No seriously im sure they will work but I just dont think they are needed. Good luck with it.

[mazdamx3freak]

am I the only one who recieved them in a shipping package that cost probly 10x the amount that would of cost if they just shipping them in a letter?

[Snotrocket]

Originally Posted by aviator79 Time is my issue...have none. Work is crazy, sent me to WPB twice in past month to work a sikorsky facility down there on new helicopter manual, working 80 hours this week and for the next few weeks on update to another manual and then likely back down to WPB for may. Plus stereo install ive been working on for 3 years I still cant get working right, installing MF CBE that I like but had to remove mufflers to cut off tips (hated my CPE dual), fish pond needs spring cleaning along with all the other house/yard work I need to do. And an 8mo boy. Just wish I had DJ or LEX or somone local that could just tune my car for me as I have no time.

You're just talking about data logging with it for now? Plug it in.. let it marry with your ecu and you are ready to log. As for tuning you can flash your ecu my just picking the appropriate shelf map for your platform and it does the rest. Takes no more then 20 mins

[mrmonk7663]

I can attest the washers are not something you can buy at the hardware store. They are custom made, thick, and curved on one side to apply equal pressure to the crows foot.

[f-castrillo]

Subbed. I wonder how long til the stock seals need to be replaced

[aviator79]

Originally Posted by Snotrocket You're just talking about data logging with it for now? Plug it in.. let it marry with your ecu and you are ready to log. As for tuning you can flash your ecu my just picking the appropriate shelf map for your platform and it does the rest. Takes no more then 20 mins

Ya...ok so im lazy. I will be doing it soon. Cant wait. Ive only used the SB.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by Snotrocket You're just talking about data logging with it for now? Plug it in.. let it marry with your ecu and you are ready to log. As for tuning you can flash your ecu my just picking the appropriate shelf map for your platform and it does the rest. Takes no more then 20 mins

I wouldn't go flashing maps if he hasn't read the helpfile and knows what to look for in his logs.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by aviator79 So it just a big fat washer? OEM washer are fine IMO is all I am saying. No need to spend $40, but again that is just my opinion which is obviusly correct...haha. No seriously im sure they will work but I just dont think they are needed. Good luck with it.

Haha. They are alloy washers about 1/4" thick. To me time is money so 40 to keep from sourcing the studs and washers was worth it. Also, John gave me a 600 FP sensor so I came our ahead. Lol. Well the sensor isn't necessarily 600 but you can only get them w the fuel rail which is 600.

Could the washers be overkill? Sure.

I'll take pics of them both when I get around to the install.


Tappin

[thatsmrgimp2u]

Just got mine in with the PTP stud kit. Install was super smooth and i was able to get the injectors out along with the old seals without a tool. They looked like shit though... Glad I did this sooner than later. Cleaning my valves while im at it

[daztdMS6]

Originally Posted by thatsmrgimp2u I was able to get the injectors out along with the old seals without a tool.

You just used your fingers to twist them out??

[thatsmrgimp2u]

Yeah a whole lot of back and forths with an occasional wiggle. Only one gave me a qwazi hard time.


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[silvapain]

I decided to install my Toyota seals and injector studs while I had my IM off, and apparently my cylinders 1&2 were both leaking a little. All four of my stock seals came right out with the injectors.

[thatsmrgimp2u]

Is there a special way to put the fuel rail back on? I just started my car and now have a puddle of gas underneath it... Like... a lot.

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by thatsmrgimp2u Is there a special way to put the fuel rail back on? I just started my car and now have a puddle of gas underneath it... Like... a lot.

The factory manual says to torque the rail down from the center out to the ends. It's a very low torque spec though; under 20 ft-lbs if I remember correctly.

Did you pull the injectors out of the rail? If so, you might have nicked one of the O-rings. Same with the hard line from the HPFP. I use a light coating of engine oil on O-rings like that when reinstalling.


Tapadatass

[thatsmrgimp2u]

I got complacent when pulling out the fuel rail. I couldnt get that plug off of it so i said screw it, and i didnt even see the o rings inside the rail. Super nube mistake. looks like im shopping for the rings now.

[802MS3]

proper upgraded studs/nuts per @SilverDemon if anyone is curious. thanks dude!

edit: no washers, you need to use the stock ones (cut stock bolts to get them off, then drill out slightly to fit over new studs)

[SilverDemon]

glad I could help! Very interested in how everything pans out with these.