MazdaSpeed 2.3L DISI Turbo Blown Engine Resource Thread

[Block8head]

Mine:
2006 Mazdasspeed6
Miles :78k on the clock
Cylinder# 3
Rod: #3 bended at first, Clutch pedal vibration like an old man couldn't walk....
Kaboom at 3500Rpm 3rd gear @15psi, the BS sticking out thru the oil pan
Front of the block have a hole also rear of the block where the oil drain line have a hole ,but the rod nowhere to be found....
Warranty: you kidding me!!!!!!!!!!
And yes i do have pics........
As matter of fact my own thread is here : The moment of truth....... The Kaboom thread - Mazda6 / Atenza

[DaleNixon]

Originally Posted by GhostSpeed Mine: 2006 Mazdasspeed6 Miles :78k on the clock Cylinder# 3 Rod: #3 bended at first, Clutch pedal vibration like an old man couldn't walk.... Kaboom at 3500Rpm 3rd gear @15psi, the BS sticking out thru the oil pan Front of the block have a hole also rear of the block where the oil drain line have a hole ,but the rod nowhere to be found.... Warranty: you kidding me!!!!!!!!!! And yes i do have pics........ As matter of fact my own thread is here : The moment of truth....... The Kaboom thread - Mazda6 / Atenza

Were you modded or stock?

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by DaleNixon Were you modded or stock?

If he was stock he wouldn't have a cry smillie next to the warranty question.

[DaleNixon]

I thought that was because he has 78k miles.

[DaleNixon]

Found his mods:

GT28R
41mm Tial EWG
DNP with dump pipe
Cpe Catted DP
Cpe HPFP
CPE nano SRI
CPE stand back v2 pnp
cpe FCF throtle and fuel cut flash
CS FMIC modded
CS CBE
Perrin EBS...
2 Step colder plugs
HKS twin power ignition...

[Wisedom]

Mazdaspeed 6 2006 with 83000KM. I had CAI,BOV,Magnaflow exhaust amd ujnichip plug and play.
I was cruising at 110Km in 6th. I downshifted in 5th to accelerate and then I experienced a lot of jerking. I was 1hr away from any civilization. It jerk often and then at a certain point I started to feel a vibration in the clutch ionly when slightly press, Fully press there was no vibration. Brought it into the dealership, they changed a maf sensor. Got out of there same problem. I went to see the mecanic and I told him to ghet in with me. On our way to the car he said that they found a code for overboosting. Anyway got on the road. I jerk and boom....Blew the engine. Thrust bearing was gone. All of my rod were bented and one piston melted...Does anybody think I should sue my dealership for letting me go with a code without telling me anything?

[badams118]

good luck with that....

[Betelgeuse]

Originally Posted by Wisedom Mazdaspeed 6 2006 with 83000KM. I had CAI,BOV,Magnaflow exhaust amd ujnichip plug and play. I was cruising at 110Km in 6th. I downshifted in 5th to accelerate and then I experienced a lot of jerking. I was 1hr away from any civilization. It jerk often and then at a certain point I started to feel a vibration in the clutch ionly when slightly press, Fully press there was no vibration. Brought it into the dealership, they changed a maf sensor. Got out of there same problem. I went to see the mecanic and I told him to ghet in with me. On our way to the car he said that they found a code for overboosting. Anyway got on the road. I jerk and boom....Blew the engine. Thrust bearing was gone. All of my rod were bented and one piston melted...Does anybody think I should sue my dealership for letting me go with a code without telling me anything?

As long as you weren't heavily modded when you arrived at the dealer, at the very least they should offer to replace or rebuild the motor since you went in there before it blew. And they had an opportunity to take care of the issue and apparently misdiagnosed it. I guess you have a case but you should think of a lawsuit only if they decided to fight you on it.

[Nichodemus]

Nichodemus - Mazdaspeedforums
Car; 2006 Mazdaspeed 6 with 43445 miles.
Cylinder; #4
Damage; Rod through block
RPM; 4kish
Mods; CS FMIC, CS TBE, Fuel pump internals, Greddy type rs recirc , CPE Standback EMS tuned at 18 psi at a 12afr, CPE Pro Fuel for Devils own meth(meth had only been on for a few weeks, but suspected a rod failure was coming when my clutch started to pulsate, stupid me for taking it for one last drive)
Exhaust Manifold; stock
Situation; Blew on a freeway onramp when shifting from 2nd to third at around 4k rpm. No audible sound, just engine stalled oil light followed by battery light followed my CEL . Look under hood and aluminum chunks and oil everywhere.
Warranty; Negatory Ghost rider, the pattern is full. Voided due to aftermarket parts, no other reasoning given.
Oil; 5w30

[802MS3]

good thoughts thanks. can you be any more detailed showing how to check for this?

[Lex]

The crank thrust tolerances on this car are fairly large. It wouldn't surprise me if you were completely right about a lot of these failures. Whether it's by design or poor manufacturing remains the question. If this is the case it has to do little with the power run through the motor as well.

Further, changing the thrust bearing means pulling the motor apart which is no fun.

[802MS3]

wow if you did measure this, and there was too much play, pretty much useless trying to show the dealer huh?

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by opt_ms3 wow if you did measure this, and there was too much play, pretty much useless trying to show the dealer huh?

lol. Trying to be preemptive with dealers never works out. it usually end with drive it till it blows when it does bring it in for a crate motor.

[802MS3]

ha so I guess measure it, too much play, sell it, buy a leftover 08-09 (not the 2010 because its ugly) and measure it again and hope its good lol

[ASIC_BSEE]

Forzda, your theory works well with cars that just bent a rod, but what about Wisedom's burnt piston? I still think it has some to do with detonation and/or pre-ignition. It would be interesting to see how many blown engines happenned after EGT's were high.

For example, I get on it a few times and EGT's are ~850F, I'm accelerating lightly now at stoic AFR, shifting up, and lightly giving it gas. Boost starts to come on and boom. Normally, the extra load due minimal crank play is manageable, but add in a bit of detonation or a pre-ignition event and a rod gives....

[ASIC_BSEE]

Oh, and your point on the BS helical gears is dead on. From Wiki:

"A disadvantage of helical gears is a resultant thrust along the axis of the gear, which needs to be accommodated by appropriate thrust bearings, and a greater degree of sliding friction between the meshing teeth, often addressed with specific additives in the lubricant."

[evidence]

For anyone wanting to jumper their clutch switch, simple stuff and if the bearing is indeed an issue it just might save you, otherwise just peace of mind and less wear. It's the verticle plug behind the little plastic rod the top of peddle makes contact with, bust off 2" of paperclip and bend in half, should do the trick as Forza said. You can snap the assembly off the metal by pulling on the piece closest to the firewall, gives easier access.

[Kennosuke]

Unfortunately, I do not know the details of my friend's thrown rod in his speed 3, but here is the mods.

2008 Mazdaspeed 3, Metallic Silver
HID 6000K LIGHTS !:
EBC Green Stuff Brake Pads ))))
Rotora Slotted Brake Rotors )
COBB FMIC
Tanabe Lower Front Brace
KW SUSPENSION VARIANT 3 COILOVERS
Enkei Racing RPF1 limited edition black 18" WITH carbon fiber center cap
MazdaSpeed 3 COBB SF
TurboXS Bypass recirc valve
Vibrant Exhuast,
TurboXS Downpipe
COBB AP: CUstom tuned at 17.62 PSI
DDE angel eyes
Motor Mount

I'll ask him, the next time I see him, as to how it occurred and which cylinder.

[Darksun280]

I gave up filling in the list cause its depressing but i believe it should be up to 36 by now. Also there are alot more of these cars blowing up that aren't on any forum or who just lurk and don't post.

[802MS3]

Originally Posted by FORZDA 1 ...The thrust bearing is loaded heavily in the DISI turbo MZR from the BS angle-cut drive gears AND the HD clutch required to hold 280 lbft of torque against the AWD system and 3500 lb car. ....

So you are saying that the balance shaft assmbly does contribute to the failures in a way? So removing the BS relieves some of the stress on the thrust bearing. the problem is not necessarily fixed, but helps show why there are no blown motors with the balance shaft assembly removed right?

[gte024h]

I bought a car with a blown engine and here's all I know of it:

The_Shawn on mazda6club
Car; 2006 Mazdaspeed 6 with 24000 miles.
Cylinder; #4
Damage; hole in block, rod and piston are MIA
RPM; unknown
Mods; unknown, but there aren't signs of any major mods
Exhaust Manifold; Stock
Situation; unknown
Warranty; no
Oil; unknown

[kwsmithphoto]

If that car was essentially stock, why was the warranty voided? Maybe they found the tracks left behind by an AP map? (yes they can tell if you were running one even if you remove it and reset the ECU)

[Kennosuke]

Ok, I found out more regarding my friend's Speed 3.

2008 Mazdaspeed 3, Metallic Silver
HID 6000K LIGHTS !:
EBC Green Stuff Brake Pads ))))
Rotora Slotted Brake Rotors )
COBB FMIC
Tanabe Lower Front Brace
KW SUSPENSION VARIANT 3 COILOVERS
Enkei Racing RPF1 limited edition black 18" WITH carbon fiber center cap
MazdaSpeed 3 COBB SF
TurboXS Bypass recirc valve
Vibrant Exhuast,
TurboXS Downpipe
COBB AP: CUstom tuned at 17.62 PSI
DDE angel eyes
Motor Mount

27,000mi
Accelerating from 40 to 60, threw the rod between 3000~4000rpms. I don't recall which cylinder, though. Normal driving conditions.

[kwsmithphoto]

COBB FMIC...TurboXS Bypass recirc valve...TurboXS Downpipe...COBB AP: CUstom tuned at 17.62 PSI

Yep, that'll do it, bye bye warranty!

But I bet it was quick before it blew up though!

[Kennosuke]

Originally Posted by kwsmithphoto Yep, that'll do it, bye bye warranty! But I bet it was quick before it blew up though!

I wish I had a chance to ride in it before he blew it. He's got a G35, now...which is fun...but not Mazdaspeed fun. ( ;

[JerseySpeed]

Ok so its been about a month since ive blown.
Ordered all new parts and fully forging motor. It goes to machchine shop monday this week.
I wanted to post photos for you guys to see.
My suggestin to everyone is to immediately forge this motor before adding any performance parts.
Also invest in methanol injection before tuning. Good luck.

My Rod...


My Block (Rear veiw beneath exhaust mani)


Heres some random shrapnel...


Another pic of the hole..

[Lex]

Did you find any of the rod bolts or cap? It's possible the bolt let go. Bolts are usually the first to go.

[TRU-BOOST]

Why does everyone love meth so much on these boards? If you dont have knock issues you dont need it. Thats all it does is prevent detonation/knock, but most people dont need it. Hell if i was going to use meth the only reason would be so that i could just take the boost hosenoff of my WGA and just let my turbo blaze full balls to the wall. It isnt all its cracked up to be IMO.

[jwdp54]

i dont use meth in my mixture i just use water to help cool temps down so my shit doesn't turn into a hair dryer. i've done all the other percuations like upgraded fuel pump and colder plugs.

[ms3jake]

Overall it definatly seems like the majority of people with blown engines had the boost turned up it some way or bigger turbo, not just a couple of bolt ons.

[Frequentflyer]

I remember crank shaft endplay issues with the Miata NB's years ago. Completely stock motors were grenading. I could actually see my crank pulley move in and out when someone stepped on the clutch pedal. Mine never blew though. It believe it turned into a TSB. It's worth looking into!

[ptperformance]

Add me to the list guys, number 3 (first 2 I really don't want to talk about and warranty is not going to cover this one).

Car: 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 with 29,000 miles

Cylinder: 2 I think, tear down is going to happen soon
Damage: Just knock
RPM: 3200 to 3500
Mods: PTP parts: FMIC, HPFP, TBE, WI, modded dump valve and line, PTP S1 kit (clamp, WGA, and pump) running 21 psi with safe AFR's
Exhaust Manifold: stock (was getting ready to sell the car)
Situation: Drove 2 hours to OR for a trade show down shifted into 2nd, got on it a bit (2psi) shifted to 3rd, got on it a bit (4 or 5 psi) and big cloud of smoke with a lot of rod noise. Pulled over and then the tail pipe smoke started.
Warranty: Not this time, billet build up is getting done now.
Oil: 15-40 Bardahl Racing Syn

Thats about it, we were going to sell the car and walk away as a loss, but not now. Full build with ATR tuning, SST, tube manifold and 100 Shot are planned. I will keep you guys posted on the build.

[FreeFlyFreak]

^^^^

Sorry to hear that.
I saw you were taking it in.......
Now this.
It is endless.
Basically I am keeping my stock TBE till someone figures this shit out.

Hope your teardown gives some answers ptp...
I really do, no one else has been forthcoming.
Any tune?? AP Standback?? Or stock ECU??

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by TRU-BOOST Why does everyone love meth so much on these boards? If you dont have knock issues you dont need it. Thats all it does is prevent detonation/knock, but most people dont need it. Hell if i was going to use meth the only reason would be so that i could just take the boost hosenoff of my WGA and just let my turbo blaze full balls to the wall. It isnt all its cracked up to be IMO.

Here is why:

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...ucks-read.html

I have seen this on several cars now that I have ported the intake on.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by FreeFlyFreak ^^^^ Sorry to hear that. I saw you were taking it in....... Now this. It is endless.

Thanks but it might a good sign of things to come. We wanted to get some power out of the car and got the rods and pistons on the way already. We really need to push the SST to show people that it can make the power we are claiming. So with that said, the first MS3 into the 11's at the track and the first to push 115 MPH should be pretty cool. This is our goal and I guess that since I have the motor to back it now, it should be pretty easy.

[TRU-BOOST]

You better do that build quickly then, cuz i plan on being the first to 11's !! I am waiting for my damn leaky nitrois bottle to come back from zex. Then its game on !! That will also be on a stock bottom end, no ems, and the oe clutch... If it holds !!

I know you are a big supporter of the BSD mod, but i dont see it listed on this cars mods....was it done ?

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by ptperformance Add me to the list guys, number 3 (first 2 I really don't want to talk about and warranty is not going to cover this one). Car: 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 with 29,000 miles Cylinder: 2 I think, tear down is going to happen soon Damage: Just knock RPM: 3200 to 3500 Mods: PTP parts: FMIC, HPFP, TBE, WI, modded dump valve and line, PTP S1 kit (clamp, WGA, and pump) running 21 psi with safe AFR's Exhaust Manifold: stock (was getting ready to sell the car) Situation: Drove 2 hours to OR for a trade show down shifted into 2nd, got on it a bit (2psi) shifted to 3rd, got on it a bit (4 or 5 psi) and big cloud of smoke with a lot of rod noise. Pulled over and then the tail pipe smoke started. Warranty: Not this time, billet build up is getting done now. Oil: 15-40 Bardahl Racing Syn Thats about it, we were going to sell the car and walk away as a loss, but not now. Full build with ATR tuning, SST, tube manifold and 100 Shot are planned. I will keep you guys posted on the build.

Where did you have the WI turning on? Sounds like you were probably under your injection range when it blew...

[ms3jake]

Originally Posted by opt_ms3 So you are saying that the balance shaft assmbly does contribute to the failures in a way? So removing the BS relieves some of the stress on the thrust bearing. the problem is not necessarily fixed, but helps show why there are no blown motors with the balance shaft assembly removed right?

Now that an avitar!

[DaleNixon]

Originally Posted by ms3jake Now that an avitar!

Agreed

[Frequentflyer]

Originally Posted by FORZDA 1 Hey Watson, I've got it! What do you have Sir? I have THE reason for essentially all the "random" engine failures. The key bit of info is the clutch pulsing. This ALSO explains why the BSD seems to have a longevity effect on the engine. Mazda has/had a problem with the thrust bearing clearances in their early series of 1.8 liter engines in the Miata. No BS in those motors, but the SAME type catastrophic engine failures resulting from excessive crankshaft end-play. Ok, here's my theory and rationale: The main culprit in these failures is the crankshaft thrust bearing. The thrust bearing is loaded heavily in the DISI turbo MZR from the BS angle-cut drive gears AND the HD clutch required to hold 280 lbft of torque against the AWD system and 3500 lb car. As such the thrust bearing wears, allowing excessive crankshaft end play and resulting side loads on the HEAVILY stressed connecting rods. A bit too much thrust bearing wear = too much side load on the con rod and Zoom, Zoom, BOOM, rod (pick one) and/or piston collapses from the off-center load and there you have it. Explains everything! Even why some new cars GO and some BLOW for no "apparent" reason. I say EVERYONE concerned about their engine should check the crankshaft end-play per the FSM and see what they have. I don't have the reference right now, but it is a few thousandths of an inch. It COULD be another series of engines have the "incorrect" thrust bearing clearances at initial assembly. ALL the failed engines to date can be checked for this clearance before the crankshaft is removed. I would wager that Mazda Japan already knows about this! The Miata crowd is very diverse and pursued their engine failures up through MNAO and got results. I should have checked mine when I had the pan off recently, but wasn't even thinking about it. I'll be checking it real soon though. It can be checked externally without removing the pan. I also recommend jumpering the clutch switch so you can start the car WITHOUT pushing in the clutch. I have ALL my manual trans cars jumpered....

I second this theory. A good number of the motors that have blown have blown during or right after shifting, whether it was at WOT or normal part throttle driving. I know people are throwing around the theory that it is some sort of a transition lean spot in the ECU's logic, but I think that's BS. There is one common factor here and it's clutch operation. When you step on the clutch, the crankshaft is moving more than it should because of a fucked up bearing. Like Forzda said, it's happened before with the Miata. All the tuning and meth in the world is not going to help you with this. I think we should all start measuring crankshaft endplay and get regular oil analysis that could show excessive bearing wear.