MazdaSpeed 2.3L DISI Turbo Blown Engine Resource Thread

[DaleNixon]

I see the car go from closed loop to open loop when I disengage the clutch. Then I watch the STFT's jump to crazy high levels as the car goes back to closed loop. I'm almost afraid to hammer the throttle during these transition periods.

[bbogue4]

Hi my name is Bret I live in Phoenix.My engine threw the third cylinder rod almost identicle to avitar of mrlilguy157.Just wondering if I throw a couple Ideas your way and if you think im going in the right direction.
We are getting a used engine and we are going to upgrade the internals w/ pauter rods and cp pistons and I am hoping that will cure my situation.One more thing should I get lower compression pistons or stock 9:5:1
Your info will be greatly appreciated.

[bbogue4]

Please your info on this subject would be great.
The forged engine at protege garage comes with pistons my engine builder doesnt like do you think they could change them?

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by TRU-BOOST You better do that build quickly then, cuz i plan on being the first to 11's !! I am waiting for my damn leaky nitrois bottle to come back from zex. Then its game on !! That will also be on a stock bottom end, no ems, and the oe clutch... If it holds !! I know you are a big supporter of the BSD mod, but i dont see it listed on this cars mods....was it done ?

Good luck and yes we had the BS still in the motor. Trust me, it was not the BS's unless it can bend all 4 cly rods.

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go Where did you have the WI turning on? Sounds like you were probably under your injection range when it blew...

No WI on this car, pulled it off months ago.

Originally Posted by Frequentflyer I second this theory. A good number of the motors that have blown have blown during or right after shifting, whether it was at WOT or normal part throttle driving. I know people are throwing around the theory that it is some sort of a transition lean spot in the ECU's logic, but I think that's BS. There is one common factor here and it's clutch operation. When you step on the clutch, the crankshaft is moving more than it should because of a fucked up bearing. Like Forzda said, it's happened before with the Miata. All the tuning and meth in the world is not going to help you with this. I think we should all start measuring crankshaft endplay and get regular oil analysis that could show excessive bearing wear.

Sorry, end crank play was spot on. The bearing also would not have bent every rod in the motor, so that idea is bust.

Originally Posted by bbogue4 Hi my name is Bret I live in Phoenix.My engine threw the third cylinder rod almost identicle to avitar of mrlilguy157.Just wondering if I throw a couple Ideas your way and if you think im going in the right direction. We are getting a used engine and we are going to upgrade the internals w/ pauter rods and cp pistons and I am hoping that will cure my situation.One more thing should I get lower compression pistons or stock 9:5:1 Your info will be greatly appreciated.

Sorry to hear this, I would get something with a lower compression ratio, or get your head milled out for a hemi design. This will go miles with building bigger power and keeping the hot spots out of the combustion chamber.

Originally Posted by bbogue4 Please your info on this subject would be great. The forged engine at protege garage comes with pistons my engine builder doesnt like do you think they could change them?

They have had a good deal of there build motors blow lately, I would hold out for a different motor or have your machine shop build a motor with there parts. I would hate to see another person buy a build motor only to have it fail in a few months, do a search you will find what I am talking about.

[TRU-BOOST]

PG has no problems with their built motors. The only problem i have seen recentln was to to P3 not knowing what the hell they were doing and then blaming it on the PG built motor that had several thousand miles on it before P3 took the car. Many of you know about this already, for those that dont search around... You can even PM the member for the real story.

If you bent all 4 rods and crank play is minimal, the only thing i can think of is that the engine was somehow way out of time.

[bhstall]

Car; 2008 Mazdaspeed 3 with 9100 miles.
Cylinder; #4
Damage; Bent rod due to faulty injector
Mods; AEM CIA, Corksport TBE
Exhaust Manifold; Stock
Situation;Slowing down to turn in a parking lot....felt a severe pulsing of the clutch pedal...Towed to the dealer and they replaced the clutch...didnt fix it...now putting in a short block because the #4 cylinder was .730 short at tdc
Warranty; Yes
Oil;castrol 5w30 synthetic blend

[Lex]

Originally Posted by bhstall Car; 2008 Mazdaspeed 3 with 9100 miles. Cylinder; #4 Damage; Bent rod due to faulty injector Mods; AEM CIA, Corksport TBE Exhaust Manifold; Stock Situation;Slowing down to turn in a parking lot....felt a severe pulsing of the clutch pedal...Towed to the dealer and they replaced the clutch...didnt fix it...now putting in a short block because the #4 cylinder was .730 short at tdc Warranty; Yes Oil;castrol 5w30 synthetic blend

How did the injector fail? Too much fuel dumped in? It bent the rod when slowing down?

[TRU-BOOST]

If you were slowing down therenshoukd have been NO fuel leaving the injectors... Unless you were in neutral. This is interesting though. It wouldnt surprise me if the was was problem for many. Either a bad injector, or just an ecu injector control issue.

[Darksun280]

I had two of my injectors and seals replaced before. from the way they looked detonation whooped there ass. Dealer accused me of running 87 octane in my car. Little did they know it was the detonation from the 30+psi that whooped on them.

[kwsmithphoto]

Question about those oily manifolds and carbon on the valves.

Couldn't one just remove the air filter and use an aerosol product to clean it out, at least to some degree? Or would that just fubar something else downstream?

If so, is there an easy to access vacuum line from the manifold one could use?

[psi]

Originally Posted by Lex How did the injector fail? Too much fuel dumped in? It bent the rod when slowing down?

My guess is a faulty injector that wasn't able to spray enough fuel into the mixture. The DISI acts as a cooling effect for the combustion chamber and if improper fuel is added to the incoming charge air, added heat and pressure beyond the cylinder limitations can occur causing detonation, and eventually failure of the rods.

I think a lot of these issues are related to the DISI system, where an improper mixture of fuel is causing similar issues.

I know, I know some of these motors that are poppoing are tuned by "professionals" but I think I am beginning to see a pattern. Most of the failures are caused by people with aftermarket fuel pumps, or fairly stock cars with failed injectors.

The DISI system has many advantages such as increased fuel efficiency and better emissions, but I think these issues are related to the DISI system, whether it is an aftermarket fuel pump and/or an flaw with the fuel injectors, I'm not sure.

just my .02.

[bhstall]

Originally Posted by Lex How did the injector fail? Too much fuel dumped in? It bent the rod when slowing down?

They didnt explain that to me

[bhstall]

They (the dealer) did say that when they pulled the plug the # 4 cylinder was "wet"

[ms3_518]

ms3_518 Mazdaspeedforums
Car; 2008 Mazdaspeed 3 w/ 17000 miles
Cylinder; #4
Damage; Blew piston, rod flew and blew 3 holes in the engine block. Serious damage to cylinder head but fixable.
RPM; low rpm's maybe 2k
Mods; hks intake, cobb eecu programmer, turbo back exhaust, front mount intercooler, boost controller, short shifter
Exhaust Manifold; Stock
Situation; It blew growing 25 mph. Know it was my fault, too much boost and the car finally had to go.
Warranty; ?
Oil; ?

[yang_jackson]

Originally Posted by ms3_518 ms3_518 Mazdaspeedforums Car; 2008 Mazdaspeed 3 w/ 17000 miles Cylinder; #4 Damage; Blew piston, rod flew and blew 3 holes in the engine block. Serious damage to cylinder head but fixable. RPM; low rpm's maybe 2k Mods; hks intake, cobb eecu programmer, turbo back exhaust, front mount intercooler, boost controller, short shifter Exhaust Manifold; Stock Situation; It blew growing 25 mph. Know it was my fault, too much boost and the car finally had to go. Warranty; ? Oil; ?

how much boost? sorry about your car. any kr?

[Lex]

Originally Posted by ms3_518 ms3_518 Mazdaspeedforums Car; 2008 Mazdaspeed 3 w/ 17000 miles Cylinder; #4 Damage; Blew piston, rod flew and blew 3 holes in the engine block. Serious damage to cylinder head but fixable. RPM; low rpm's maybe 2k Mods; hks intake, cobb eecu programmer, turbo back exhaust, front mount intercooler, boost controller, short shifter Exhaust Manifold; Stock Situation; It blew growing 25 mph. Know it was my fault, too much boost and the car finally had to go. Warranty; ? Oil; ?

Thanks for the input. How much boost? Was it running lean? Knocking?

[TRU-BOOST]

It wasnt from too much boost. There is obviously a problem that is being overlooked here by everyone. If it was feom the boost it wouldnt let go at a 2k cruise. People ar all blowing at low rpm no matter what boost levels they run. There is a design flaw somewhere that is for some reason illusive to us. One this gets figured out i bet these engines can safely handle much more power than they are given credit for. I am just gonna keep modding and driving my car the way i want. If its gonna go, its gonna go. It seems to make no difference how much power the car makes, how you drive it, or anything else.... Its like the mazda lottery. Is your car a winner ??!?

[DaleNixon]

I'm assuming he means too much boost from his MBC over time.

[Meder]

Well he seems to think it was his fault, heh. MBC and cobb ap? Were you using them both at the same time? How would these work with each other? There are too many stories with not enough information like this. We dont know what happened or if we can even really blame the car on this one until we can get more info.


We have low mileage blow ups - Something wrong with the car from the start maybe, usually injector it seems.

We have guys fully bolted blowing up - Are these guys pushing the limit? Maybe some guys survive fully bolted, but they all seem to eventually blow.

We have mild bolt ons blowing up - intake/tbe/fmic/ maybe an inlet. I dont think these guys are really pushing the car to the point where it should blow but some have. Maybe its just hit or miss at this point on this motor?

I know a lot of us can not afford a blown motor. We also cant afford to get rid of the car. For me its going to be light bolt ons with meth as few have blown with such mods, if any really. It's really bitch, I know fully bolted guys in my area that drive through anything and do not even have any type of monitoring device. Just turn up the boost and floor it through the 90 degree heat.

A lot of lightly bolted guys seem to be doing fine. A lot of people that pay attention to their car seems to be ok. Nearly no one with meth has blown besides the guys that were really pushing the limit/just put meth on. No one with a bsd has blown beside those that were pusing the limits of the motor (340-350?).

I can kind of see why some low mileage cars have blown if there is indeed something going on with some of our motors. I see why the guys pushing mid 300's have blown, maybe we just cant take that power. I do not see why some of our intake/exhaust guys are blowing. Maybe its just from excessive knock over time? I have a hard time believing we are hydrolocking on oil or the bsd is saving motors.

[Smoke_31]

May 16th/2009

2007 Mazdaspeed 3

120km/h shift from 4th to 5th. Boom.

Huge cloud of smoke behind me, small bits of motor flying down the road behind me.

Appears passenger side rod went through back of block and smashed my starter off the block on the front as well somehow.

I have 62 000km on my car.

Currently, Mazda is deciding whether or not to warranty the failure. They asked if I took water into my engine... Ha! I told them I don't recall driving through any ponds.

Mods include:
CP-E turbo back
HKS short intake
HKS SSQV recirculating
Cobb AP for a bit (Started backfiring so I quit using it right away. I'm assuming this has something to do with me living in an area that has a much higher altitude than the tune was performed.)

I asked Mazda what my engine was worth. He said a regular Mazda 3 Sport engine is worth $15 000 CAD so mine would likely be more. Ridiculous.

*EDIT*

Forgot to add, as reported by another post in this thread, my clutch was jumping around (felt like fingers on pressure plate were warped) at the friction point. I told Mazda prior to the engine failure and they just told me that it is a wear part and they wouldn't fix it.

[Darksun280]

Bout time someone else blew up. I started to get worried it was 3 weeks since the last known failure.

[TenaciousBoost]

Why the hell haven't we been able to figuire out why all these motors are blowing, this seems rediculous. It has been a couple of years now and there is still only speculation on why, nothing concrete.. Its sad, I want to mod, but can't afford my car barfing rods..

[Lex]

That quoted price is WAY too high. They are trying to scare you. Have you decided what you will do with the car?

Originally Posted by Smoke_31 May 16th/2009 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 120km/h shift from 4th to 5th. Boom. Huge cloud of smoke behind me, small bits of motor flying down the road behind me. Appears passenger side rod went through back of block and smashed my starter off the block on the front as well somehow. I have 62 000km on my car. Currently, Mazda is deciding whether or not to warranty the failure. They asked if I took water into my engine... Ha! I told them I don't recall driving through any ponds. Mods include: CP-E turbo back HKS short intake HKS SSQV recirculating Cobb AP for a bit (Started backfiring so I quit using it right away. I'm assuming this has something to do with me living in an area that has a much higher altitude than the tune was performed.) I asked Mazda what my engine was worth. He said a regular Mazda 3 Sport engine is worth $15 000 CAD so mine would likely be more. Ridiculous. *EDIT* Forgot to add, as reported by another post in this thread, my clutch was jumping around (felt like fingers on pressure plate were warped) at the friction point. I told Mazda prior to the engine failure and they just told me that it is a wear part and they wouldn't fix it.

[Smoke_31]

This is the back of the engine. I didn't grab a picture of the front (where my starter was blown off the engine) because the mechanic at Mazda was in a bit of a hurry.

The clutch pulsing started probably about a month to a month and a half before it blew. I took it to Mazda and they said "clutch is a wear part, not covered under warranty. You should be okay to drive it until you replace the clutch." That worked out well.

Prior to the clutch pulsing (I mean the cause), I was getting on it in 2nd gear and what I thought was a huge backfire (apparently wasn't) occurred. Immediately after, I could feel the clutch pulsing.

There were no additional engine noises oddly enough. Just randomly *boom*.

When I took this picture, the mechanic told me they will be ordering the engine the next day (so should have been ordered yesterday). The weird part is, they haven't confirmed that they will be covering the repair under warranty yet.

*edit*

Since it appears they will be fixing my car (here's to hoping anyways), I will likely drive it until I pay it down some more, then sell it. Not entirely sure what to buy after this, but I'm entertaining the idea of a Hyundai Genesis.

Depending on what kind of warranty comes with a new engine, I may just keep the car. Too many things up in the air right now to make a decision. All I know is it is finally nice up here (alberta, canada) and I'm stuck driving either my B4000 or my 1991 Civic Si (running the stock d16a6. Really entertaining the idea of a FI B20 right about now )

[Lex]

That big backfire was likely some sort of uncontrolled combustion event that bent a rod. The pulsing you felt in the clutch all along was a bent rod. I'm surprised it lasted that long with a bent rod.

What modifications were on the car the time you had the backfire?

[Smoke_31]

HKS intake, SSQV recirculated, CP-e TBE

[Scatt Nasty]

Not sure whos car it was... But it was local to tempe, AZ

It was a black speed 3 with blacked out emblems sitting at UMS tuning waiting to get forged after blowing....

They found that the owner was running a boost cut defender along with his AP... Sounds like win to me.

[DaleNixon]

Who thinks I should track down a CP-E fuel pump before installing a test pipe? My current breather mods are CP-E Nano w/CP-E inlet, ETS 3.25" TMIC, Forge BPV, and Racing Beat CBE.

[Smoke_31]

Fuel pump couldn't hurt although your test pipe won't make a huge difference.

The downpipe is the part of the exhaust that will make the largest difference.

[spiffyone571]

Originally Posted by Smoke_31 Fuel pump couldn't hurt although your test pipe won't make a huge difference. The downpipe is the part of the exhaust that will make the largest difference.

Seems like a lot of blown engines with few mods. So are you saying the downpipe is harmful to have on a daily driver?

[phillyb]

i have a downpipe on my daily driver

[lvmazdaspeed3]

this thread is pure fail

[s-retire]

Originally Posted by TenaciousBoost Why the hell haven't we been able to figuire out why all these motors are blowing, this seems rediculous. It has been a couple of years now and there is still only speculation on why, nothing concrete.. Its sad, I want to mod, but can't afford my car barfing rods..

I've asked this before, Is there any thought in entering into an injured class action suit?

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by s-retire I've asked this before, Is there any thought in entering into an injured class action suit?

Second you modded the car you cant win.

[s-retire]

Originally Posted by Darksun280 Second you modded the car you cant win.

No mods on my car... Bone Stock

Other point Magnusson Moss would require that Mazda shows the mod (if any) was the cause of the failure.

There is one guy on another Speed3 forum whose only mod was to install the Mazda CAI, an improved rear motor mount and change his own oil using Mazda filters. How can Mazda deny that one? According to the warranty manual even the CAI is covered for the life of the new car warranty.

I suspect there are others with failed engines that have no mods or only Mazda Blue warranty items.


or Maybe I'm missing something...

[kwsmithphoto]

Stock, and they denied you?

Have you spoken to the zone rep yet? If you don't know what a zone rep is, then you aren't even close to resolving this in your favor. And don't be afraid to file a law suit against Mazda NA, Federal law is on your side. Same with the guy with the CAI.

But the main thing is to make the zone rep know that you're seeking a legal remedy if he or she doesn't approve the warranty claim. The dealer is over ruled at this point, you will have to go much further up the food chain.

The main thing is to suit up for battle - learn the process in your jurisdiction, and start filing paperwork ASAP. Yes it's a hassle, but what did that engine cost ya?

[s-retire]

Originally Posted by kwsmithphoto Have you spoken to the zone rep yet? If you don't know what a zone rep is, then you aren't even close to resolving this in your favor. And don't be afraid to file a law suit against Mazda NA, Federal law is on your side. Same with the guy with the CAI... start filing paperwork ASAP. Yes it's a hassle, but what did that engine cost ya?

Are you referring to the Regoinal Service Manager? He has already denied my claim. I filed a claim with Mazda NAO Customer Care and Mediation Manager and written extensive letters.

The Mazda RSM inspected the car and claims his inspection proves that it was an oil related failure due to improper dealer workmanship. During his inspection, he pulled the oil pan, the BS and one rod bearing cap. I was sent a picture where the RSM states that there was evidence of lack of oil on the bearing surface. Mazda had the car towed back to my home. Telling me that they will not honor my warranty and that I should contact the Mazda dealer that last changed my oil and go away.

I’ve also enlisted mediation from the California New Motor Vehicles Board. In both my correspondence directly with Mazda NAO and the Calif NMVB, I have asked Mazda to respond to the statements in the owner’s manual, warranty booklet and Mazda advertising pamphlet that defects in dealer workmanship are covered in the warranty issued with my new car from Mazda. Mazda NAO has not responded to that inquiry on either forum.

After the inspection and a final letter denying my claim, Mazda NAO had the loose parts placed in the rear and the car towed to my home. I've rolled under the car to take a look and inspected the loose parts. This is an excerpt from the letter I’ve written to Mazda NAO indicating what I found.


"Any surface imperfections on the bearing surface in that cap are similar to those that would be seen upon initial startup and break in of a new motor. The bearing and cap show no signs of exposure to high heat associated with lack of lubricating oil.

One would expect that if there was a systemic loss of lubricating oil sufficient to cause a connecting rod to break, at a minimum the other components that require pressurized oil delivery would show significant signs of heat related discoloring due to lack of lubrication.

When I inspected the underside of the open motor I saw that the connecting rod is broken in two places. One break is near the narrow cross section of the connecting rod below the wrist pin. The other is where the connecting rod cap secures to the connecting rod. The broken connecting rod and cap are wedged between the crankshaft throw for the failed journal and the engine block. One connecting rod cap bolt was recovered from between a casting web and the broken connecting rod and cap.

In all likelihood the connecting rod broke at the narrow end close to the piston before braking free from the connecting rod bearing journal.

This conclusion is supported by the considerable damage evident on the engine block, the girdled main bearing web and the top side of the balance shaft assembly. There is hammer damage to the sides of the engine block and the bottom of the cylinder bore most likely caused by the connecting rod swinging freely while the motor was still turning. The main bearing girdle web connections are broken on both sides between the center and center left main bearing caps. The steel balance shaft case shows extensive hammer damage. The recovered connecting rod bolt is broken approximately 3/8 inch from the end and the tip of the remaining portion has been formed to a point by some type of impact.

Most likely, the portion of the connecting rod swung freely on the bearing journal while it was still secured to the crankshaft, allowing the loose end to strike the aluminum engine block, the aluminum girdled main bearing web assembly breaking the web connections between the third and fourth main bearing and the top of the steel balance shaft assembly causing considerable damage. Eventually, the repeated impact caused the connecting rod bolts to fail, releasing the rod assembly from the crank shaft. The connecting rod and cap came to rest, wedged between the engine block and the crank shaft throw, causing the motor to seize.

I expect that any individual qualified to make a determination as to the cause of this motor failure would be able to recognize the importance of reporting on these observations to support their theory of this particular failure."

Sorry this is so long, but I’ve been without a car for five months. Fortunately I am able to come up with a replacement it while I fight with Mazda. Looks like I'll need to go to court.

My sympathy would go out to those who would otherwise be left stranded by Mazda NAO

[FreeFlyFreak]

Just go to court.
That letter will likely achieve nothing as you are pointing out what you see and not pointing blame and threatening to sue.

If you dont want a lawyer just do small claims court, and you will at least get $5000 or what ever is the max in your jurisdiction.

[s-retire]

Originally Posted by FreeFlyFreak Just go to court. That letter will likely achieve nothing as you are pointing out what you see and not pointing blame and threatening to sue. If you dont want a lawyer just do small claims court, and you will at least get $5000 or what ever is the max in your jurisdiction.

Thanks, What is here is only an excerpt of a six page letter with a demand for repurchase and informing them if they don't respond then costly litigation will be my next alternative.

I didn't point blame, but made it clear that both Mazda NAO and the dealer have responsibility to cover my loss.

It won't go small claims because we are talking $18k in damage including the fire damage and the blown turbo.

The car was $25K and it only had 3600 miles.

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by s-retire Thanks, What is here is only an excerpt of a six page letter with a demand for repurchase and informing them if they don't respond then costly litigation will be my next alternative. I didn't point blame, but made it clear that both Mazda NAO and the dealer have responsibility to cover my loss.

In that case you may get some action from on high.
A similar letter from a lawyer no doubt would get action from them.
Good luck.