My MS6 VVT and chain fix (with an Added issue)

[MaverickX3]

OMG. I'd check you valves after doing that. With all that cranking, yes it will get the bolt off but because we have an interference engine, when the timing goes so usually does exhaust valves.

If you HAD to do this, I would have removed all of the cam bearings (caps) and lifted the cams so that there is zero valve movement.

But ya, I know how you feel. I had bought a 350lb breaking electric impact wrench that did nothing. Rented a big dewalt compressor from Home Depot and borrowed my then roommates Snap-On 1,200lb breaking HD impact wrench. Two blips and that bolt came off. Tim the Toolman grunt afterwords.

When you put that bolt back on, check and then check and then check one more time that everything is aligned properly. Get new crank bolt and tighten to 70-77lbs and then 87-92 degrees turn. Good luck!

[Tokay444]

I don't get it. 70-77lb/ft I get, but what's the 87-92* turn?

[FORZDA 1]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 I don't get it. 70-77lb/ft I get, but what's the 87-92* turn?

The setup requires a "lot" of clamping force. The extra rotation after the torque value stretches the "special" bolt to the yield point to ensure the clamp load is sufficient. This is also why the crank bolt should NOT be reused. It will not have the same clamping force the second time it is stretched.

This technique is fairly common in high clamp applications.

[Tokay444]

So you torque it, and then tighten another 90*. That makes sense. I thought he was just saying to rotate the crank 90*.

Thanks

[MaverickX3]

Yep, as Fordza said it

87-92 degrees = 1/4 turn beyond the 77lbs initial.

These are commonly known as torque to yield bolts. Cylinder head bolts are also torque to yield (new set each time). There is a tsb about this (via alldatapro). About $14 cdn vs say the cost of new head bolts + exhaust valves times X and possible labour etc.

[Tech/Sales@EM]

Axle Colar bolts, And Subframe and some suspension bolts are the same. A lot of times shops just reuse them. Sad isnt it.

[Jasper_3MPS]

Oké this is what happend and Iam not sure of this is correct...

Put the cam aligment tool between the cams had the Cam spokkets loose to get the tension on the new chain (pulled the pin from the tensioner ofcourse)

Also had the tdc bolt on the crankshaft so it whas tdc!

Now i thightened the cambolts and pulled the cam aligment tool!

But the intake Cam did not move...

Than put the crank pully and bolt (used impact gun to knock the bolt on) than i pulled the tdc bolt! And rotated the crank to check Valve clearens! That test was a succes no valve's hitting the pistons!

But Iam still thinking About the intake cam That dit not move...

Did i do something wrong here... Is the timing of now????

[Tech/Sales@EM]

No you did it correct. Your timing is most likely spot on.

The manual does say to align the sprocket to the crank sensor but thats certainly not as important as the cam placement and the VVT actually locking the camshaft. Enjoy your car!

[Jasper_3MPS]

Oké question i got the crankbolt 45' rotated but i cant get it Any tighter does Any body have à trick how i van crank That sucked the next 45' degeres???

I have à hughe airgun now but THE compresor doesnt flow enough air...

Some advise Would be apriciated ;-)

[Tech/Sales@EM]

Add pipes to the end of your breaker bar. I had to use a 4 foot breaker bar to tighten bolts like collar bolts and crank bolts and subframe bolts 90 degrees and sometimes 180 degrees.

[Tokay444]

If I'm just doing the chain and tensioner, there's no reason to take the cam gears off, correct?
Less of this torque to yield shit for me the better.

[Jasper_3MPS]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 If I'm just doing the chain and tensioner, there's no reason to take the cam gears off, correct? Less of this torque to yield shit for me the better.

well i dont know how you want to get you chain in... the tensioner is the same its behind the metal cover so you have to remover your Crank pully and bolt...

so good luck my friend!

Top tip from me! Rent your self a BIG ASS airhammer and Huge compressor to get that bolt of and to get it on...

i got my self a HUGE air hamer from work and now iam trying to find a place where i can rent or borow a big compresor cause my compresor at home isnt doing the job! enough presure but not enough flow...

and i dont know how you can keep that Crankpuly in place whit out spinning the crank... it moves tryed to lock the puly but i just cant get enough grip...

this job just Sucks and good luck to any body who needs to do this cause Mazda cant make a Chain that is strong enough and a VVT actuator that wil not die.... :@

also here is a Video on how to get the tension on the chain evenly

YouTube - Mazdaspeed 3 (MPS) VVT chain and tensioner instalment

YouTube - Mazdaspeed 3 (MPS) VVT chain and tensioner instalment

[Tokay444]

I didn't say anything about the crank bolt or chain cover. I said cam gears.

[Jasper_3MPS]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 I didn't say anything about the crank bolt or chain cover. I said cam gears.

oke well i dont see any methode thats safe that you can use whit out setting the cam aligment tool and the Top dead center tool... and loosen up the cam bolts... you do want a even tension on the chain and tensioner and the cams in the correct place and the pistons in TDC...

the cam gears only need to be torqued to 75newton and thats a easy job but that Crankpully.... couldent they have made a Pully that you could lock beter!!! damn those 90' degrees are!!!

[Dutchmode] GODS VERRACHTE KANKER TYFES PLEURES GOLERA HOEREN KRUK AS BOUT [/Dutchmode]

but if any one know's please tell me!

[Tokay444]

Again, I didn't say anything about not setting the cam alignment tool or crank peg.
I just want to know if it is a must to loosen the cam gears. Shouldn't I be able to wrap the chain tight over the gears while they're locked?

[FORZDA 1]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Again, I didn't say anything about not setting the cam alignment tool or crank peg. I just want to know if it is a must to loosen the cam gears. Shouldn't I be able to wrap the chain tight over the gears while they're locked?

Yes, but it may take "several" tries before you get the chain/sprockets(cam and crank) aligned so that when you release the tensioner, it doesn't rotate the crank in relation to the cams. The dealerships do it without pulling the chain cover, etc. every time. It takes too long and they make money on the flat-rate manual vs actual time....

[Tokay444]

Thanks again Forzda 1

[Tech/Sales@EM]

As he said if you dont loosen cams then you will have spots of uneven tension on the chain and the assembly would not turn as one. Plus it would be difficult getting the little bugger on their too.

[Tokay444]

Ok. Thanks guys.

[Jasper_3MPS]

oke iam done whit the job and the engine runs like its new!!!

This is a video of before!

YouTube - Mazda 3 MPS timingchain

YouTube - Mazda 3 MPS timingchain

and This is after the fix

YouTube - Mazdaspeed3 (MPS) chain and VVT fixxed

YouTube - Mazdaspeed3 (MPS) chain and VVT fixxed

i did went out to rent a Big air compressor that flowed 400Liters of air and than my big air gun did the rest! FU Mazda for making it so hard to put the Crank bolt on

[MaverickX3]

Found that you don't need a huge air compressor to take that bolt off just a good gun. My impact gun (850lbs breaking, 800 running) needs 4.5cfm to run properly. My buddy and I rented a 8.1cfm tank to take off the bolt on his '05 Mazda 3. Used a 1/4' hose with the 1/4 npt quick connects and NOTHING. Impact wrench would spin plenty fast but didn't budge the bolt. Used the 3/8" hose without the quick connect (straight screw in) and it took barely one blip of the gun to take it off. For anyone who uses air impact wrenches, its all about the VOLUME of air, not pressure. You could get away with a tiny 2.0cfm 3 galon tank with the 3/8" hose on same said gun, just wouldn't be able to run it for long.

Just a thought to those (like me) who were going to go spend some bills and buy a huge air compressor JUST to take this damn bolt off.

[MaverickX3]

On a side note, I'm still in the works of diagnosing a compression issue (175,150,150,178~) and as I've done it I've also checked the chain tension between the cams via oil cap and can testify that there are spots where it is tight and others where it is pretty loose.

Still making time to do a leak down but for those who have had their tensioner go and or timing chain stretch, did you notice any power issues or mixed compression results?

I HAD to remove my timing cover as 1. the damn peekhole bolt was stuck and 2. the tensioner got soo tight or near the end of its play that I had to remove the whole unit in order to take the chain off. Didn't measure how far it was sticking out but seemed long.

[Tokay444]

I also have a small compression issue.
180-185-165-185
And I'm losing what I feel to be too much oil. No smoke at idle either.
Lots of spew at higher rpms.

[MaverickX3]

I keep checking my chain tension after I have done a little bit of driving and pretty much every time there is a lot of upward slack. I'm thinking that would affect responsiveness and possibly retarding things a bit

[609speed6]

I'm getting mine fixed next week thank god

[Tokay444]

Please post how long it takes to go slack again.

[MaverickX3]

Checked just now (been in office about 3 hours) and went and checked and there was slack. A bit, but moved it a bit more and then a lot. Ya, calling Mazda to get a quote on parts vs SU.

[06Speed6]

When you guys say slack, are we talking 1/16" or 1/2" of slack? With a chain system there will always be some slack.

[super_pablo_]

subbed for useful info to read in detail when i get a chance.

[tddvrrn]

Originally Posted by 609speed6 I'm getting mine fixed next week thank god

i thought you sorted this months ago? or maybe you just had it diagnosed then? were the parts on backorder?

or has the vvt gone out again after a few months?

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 When you guys say slack, are we talking 1/16" or 1/2" of slack? With a chain system there will always be some slack.

That's what I have. About a half inch or less of upward deflection when I pull on the chain on a hot motor. A little more cold.
I was told this is a no no. I bought all the tools and parts to do the chain and tensioner, but haven't had time.

[06Speed6]

rofl yeah 1/2" is way too much.

[Tokay444]

Lol.
And I know the tensioner is oil pressure dependant, so if there's no oil pressure, there shouldn't be all that much tension.
But..., I believe it's got teeth on it, so that it doesn't actually retract when it's not being fed oil.
Idk

[MaverickX3]

Ya, come to think of it, 1/2" is right where mine is at times. Some times its very little but still something and others, well, fml lol.
Ordering parts from EM so I'll be adding more info when parts are installed.

Off the line performance from 1st to 2nd low rpm response feels really sloppy. Not so much hesitation but just....sloppy. Pretty much when the accelerator is pushed down, its as though things tighten up (vvt and oil pressure?). I have the SURE RMM and all of the SURE diff mounts but in low rpm (under 2k or so) it kinda slighshots a bit. Rev it higher and release and she's golden.

[MaverickX3]

Well y'all, I replaced the VVT actuator (new washers too), chain and tensioner. Easy install (I've taken that timing chain cover off about 7 times now lol) and followed the instructions that Jasper did (loosen sprockets and turn chain with tension on it to even out any slack). As per my sig I had some goodies installed on the car and thought I would stock out completely to get a good feel for how it should work.

Chain did have some stretch (post pics later) and even had a link on the inside of the chain that was about to break!!

Results: A lot more low down power and response. Seems to pull nicely till around 4k and then feels like it hits vtak (already hitting 15psi by 4k). Just going to wait for the fuel trims to even out as I took out the battery to stock out. Still have to do an oil change tonight (oil right now is nasty and sooty). Feels like awesome right now

Big props to Tech/Sales@EM for the best price on the parts + tools(waaaay cheaper than Mazda and more competitive than SU+ shipping) and for a quick turnaround time to send the stuff north of the border.

Will do a compression test prob this next weekend but I have a feeling I might have found the culprit on my spotty compression...

[Nitr0EngiE]

Originally Posted by troubled81 Ok this thread has become a engine build thread as i have pulled this whole motor apart looking for reasons that the chain will not stay tight. The build will just be stock refresh. New bearings, oil pump,timing gears, and ring on a fresh hone, with ARP head and main studs. My new issue is that the rod bolts are on back order from onlinemazdaparts.... and ARP does not make M8x1.0-40-45 (measured 44.5mm) rod bolts or i would have them.... So this is my question does anyone know were i can get 8 of l3k911214? Also i found that cosworth has some duratec stock replacement rod bolts pr7092 and pr7145. Does anyone know if they are the same thread pitch and length? they are not cheap but i hope they have them in stock and if they do i will go that route. Well that is it for now... Oh one last thing, how much does are stock flywheel wieght? i just got my ACT clutch and OMFG, lightened wheel my ass. (edit) I have found that i had the wrong part number i guess it seems we need LF01-11-214A

why did this guy not just buy a new fucking chain tension er

[MaverickX3]

Beyond me In my case it was more likely the stretched chain and faulty vvt actuator, but I replaced the tensioner at the same time because 1. cheap and you already have to take all the chain shit apart and 2. Slightest chance it could have been it and I'd rather not do all that work and find out it WAS the damn tensioner lol.

[troubled81]

I did buy a new tensioner

I bought;

a tensioner
a chain
a crap load of friction washers (both cam and crank)
crank and cam bolts
new slides
and VVT actuator

Since this has gone to poop i have also bought new gears for everything.

If you read my thread you would have followed along on my journey to finding the root cause of the timing chain slap after doing the VVT actuator/chain was a bent connecting rod. Instead you think you know this story and my car's issue and add dribble to this thread without even asking if i did something that you think i might have missed.

I hope that members post more usefully in your threads.

[MaverickX3]

Hey Troubled, ya I forgot about your thread I remember reading about the bent rods now and the pics At first I didn't understand why the bent rods would affect the chain but seeing how the extra wear on the crankshaft can cause extra heat and stress on other components make sense. I'm still not sure what caused mine to poop. All the best you ya man. I have spent a good 6 months on trying to figure out the low compression on my car and just might have figured it out.

[Chimmike]

Bind plugs= softest metal ever. Anyone have any ideas how to remove a stripped bind plug from the timing cover?