Transmission Cured

[Speed3eak]

So doing research on the web, there seems to be another fluid that is highly recommended, although I am uncertain as to well it would work with our tranny. It's called GM syncromesh Friction modifier, and people seem to swear by it on other forums. Only thing is they have different trannys and I don't know if we'd necessarily get the same results.

[Cataphract_40]

Originally Posted by Speed3eak So doing research on the web, there seems to be another fluid that is highly recommended, although I am uncertain as to well it would work with our tranny. It's called GM syncromesh Friction modifier, and people seem to swear by it on other forums. Only thing is they have different trannys and I don't know if we'd necessarily get the same results.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that what you've got there is a *drum roll* fricton modifier and is therefore an additive to transmission fluid, and would not work well if you put only it in the transmission. Plus it probably comes in tiny containers (a few oz). Am I right?

[Speed3eak]

Actually, no - It's a manual transmission oil with friction modifiers put into it at the factory. It comes in quart-sized containers (being the smallest container you can get it in).

Although I did hear about it when I was looking around honda/acura forums IIRC. Could have also been a focus forum, as I've been looking around for the best manual transmission oil available for our transmissions.

edit:

[Cataphract_40]

Ah, I see - friction modified, not modifier. Gotcha. Well if you want to take a stab at it, go for it. Let us know if it feels smooths or not, and whether or not you get any LSD chatter.

[nyghtryder]

that stuff worked well on my 96 cavalier. I was told that it needed to be rebuilt with 2nd gear and synchro being bad. changed fluid to that and drove it hard for another 60k with no issues ever again. It was a getrag tranny too.

[801MS3]

If you read back (im too lazy to go find the quote) but our "cone style" differential does not need or react well to a friction modifier.
The motorcraft or amsoil is all you will need, Adding a friction modifier will not "help" our situation only create a new one.

Any confirmation that mt-90 and amsoil are the same thing? or very similar?

[HutcHJC]

Originally Posted by 801MS3 Any confirmation that mt-90 and amsoil are the same thing? or very similar?

MT-90 is Redline Oil (Manual 75w90 GL 4 Tranny Fluid
MTGQT-EA is AMSOil (Manual 75w90 GL 4 Tranny Fluid)
XT-M5-QS is Motorcraft (Manual 75w90 GL 4 Tranny Fluid) (GL 4 according to their Data Sheet)

None of these are 75w80. The only oil I can find that's 75w80 is Esso. The viscosity #s are all consistent with each other but the Esso #s are a bit lower. Which makes sense given the weight difference.

Redline #s
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 15.6
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 90
Viscosity Index 185

AMSOil #s
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 14.7
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cst (ASTM D-445) 84.5
Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270) 181

Motorcraft #s
Viscosity:
cSt @ 100°C 15.4
cSt @ 40°C 76.0
Viscosity Index 211

Esso #s (Esso Gear Oil BV 75W-80 GL 4)
cSt @ 100°C 8.2
cSt @ 40°C 47.1
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 149

Saw something on another MSF Thread:
Redline 70w80 states on website that it's good for 75w80. Here are the numbers.
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 10.6
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 56.2
Viscosity Index 183

[Cataphract_40]

A higher VI is 'better', right?

[HutcHJC]

Originally Posted by Cataphract_40 A higher VI is 'better', right?

Stolen from Wikipedia:
Viscosity is a measure of the resistance of a fluid which is being deformed by either shear stress or tensile stress. In everyday terms (and for fluids only), viscosity is "thickness". Thus, water is "thin", having a lower viscosity, while honey is "thick", having a higher viscosity.

Anyone please correct me where I'm wrong here...
Basically the thicker an oil (higher viscosity) the more resistance in the engine/transmission/differential and the thinner an oil (lower viscosity) the less resistance. A higher viscosity imparts more protection to the parts of the component but provides more resistance. Basically as standards have gotten tougher they've been reducing, a bit, the Viscosity recommendations. They are trying to balance proper lubrication of components with MPG, Emissions, etc. This is why some oils make it harder to shift. There's less and less tolerance, and the oil actually gets in the way of the parts working together because they don't flow easily enough.

This is where friction modifiers can play a part. It helps make the oil more slippery so every thing meshes easier and allows for thinner oils to keep parts protected. But friction modifiers aren't always a good idea when you need friction to perform, like a wet-clutch on a motorcycle.

[Mizzle]

One reason the '10 shifts better is the lower viscosity.
I've asked around if the Gen1 can run GenPu fluid and everyone acts like I'm asking the meaning of life.

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by Mizzle I'm asking the meaning of life.

The meaning of life.....the universe.....and EVERYTHING....:

"42"

[Sniper2606]

soooo i been reading the whole thread, im guessing some people had good experience with amsoil and others with motorcraft, or depends on the car lol im on 27k 08 with short thrown plate and metal SU bushings. i would ask which fluid i should get but i guess it doesnt matter either one amsoil or motor seems to work fine

edit heres the links

Amsoil http://www.amsoil.com/catalog.aspx?code=MTGQT-EA

Redline http://www.streetunit.com/Redline_MT...p/red50304.htm

Motorcraft http://k-mansparts.com/items/focus/M...5qs-detail.htm

[chieftjs]

I just replaced my tranny fluid with the Motorcraft fluid, and it feels a lot smoother. I'll post an update once I get a few hundred miles on the new fluid. The install was easy. I found that jacking up the passenger side of the car allowed the fluid to drain easily. I would also recommend removing the plastic cover under the engine to make draining easier.

[R.MS3]

I seriously didn't not much difference with the Motorcraft, i was actually happy with the OEM stuff. It whines on sharp turns for me but it is a little smoother than the OEM fluid.

One thing that actually improved my shifting was the re-adjustment of the link on the shifter itself, there's a video on youtube and i think it's from the guy that sells the shifter plate.

[evidence]

So I installed the PTP IM gasket last weekend, and ever since then my tranny whine/'wah-wah-wah' at low speeds has been a bit louder. Did a log and noticed my WG was working a bit harder than normal so figured I had a boost leak. Turns out the hose from my OCC onto the IM was kinked when I reinstalled and was indeed leaking. Fixed this up and no more leaks. To my surprise, the tranny noise quieted down quite noticeably. Something in the system must use vacuum to operate? Not sure why else a leak would cause the audible change. Just a heads up as something to check for you guys with a louder tranny.

I've been running MT-90 since 500 miles. It's been said to swap it out at 20k (I'm 24k) to get the crap from break in out, then your set for good, so I have some Amsoil I'll be throwing in this week. I'll comment on my experience with the 2 shortly.

[chumpsteak]

I swapped out the OEM stuff at 7K miles due to a bad 2nd gear grind problem. Put in MT-90 and the grind problem got better but didn't go away. Shifting was improved overall though. Just changed again at 39K miles and put in the Motorcraft stuff this time. 2nd gear still isn't perfect when cold, but the overall shift feel is much improved even over the MT-90. I'll be using the Motorcraft from now on.

[801MS3]

I hate to poop all over this thread with my negativity... BUT
I have been following this thread for a while now with the plans of using the motorcraft fluid. And being really optimistic because of all the positive feedback people are giving.
I wanted it mostly because i live in SLC, UT and the winters here are a bitch and cold weather shifting is a joke.

So i finally got my Motorcraft fluid $57 later my tranny feels almost exactly the same as it did with the stock fluid.. Cold shifting feels the same so does warm shifting. I was hoping it would help with my sometimes "crunchy" 1-2 shift but it didn't, if anything it made it worse.

I will propbably either try amsoil in the spring or the BG syncromesh. I used BG in my DSM and it was awesome.

Side note: 2 other local ms3 owners swapped to the same fluid the same day i did, and their thoughts were mixed. But that could just be the placebo effect and hopes that the $57 "upgrade" you just did actually made a difference..

Dissapointed

[FreeFlyFreak]

Glad to hear the other side.

If I were to try another oil it would be Redline MT-85 75W85 GL-4 Gear Oil
Or even Redline MTL 70W80 GL-4 Gear Oil
Those may need some friction modifier, but I would try it without first, it is easy enough to add afterward.

Why those fluids?

The 75/85 is recommended in mitsubishi and sentra gearboxes which are very similar to ours. Mitsubishi and Nissan however spec a thinner fluid than Mazda.......... and now Mazda for the gen 2 specs a similarly thinner fluid. Actually, their fluid spec is similar to MTL 70W80 GL-4 Gear Oil which is also listed as an alternative to XT-M5-QS

If you try either let us know how it works out.

The other fluid I would like to try is the Mitsubishi Diaqueen Transmission fluid BUT it is even more expensive than the ford stuff.

[TRex]

^which friction modifier would you use?

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by TRex ^which friction modifier would you use?

Any, it doesnt really matter IMO.
Just try whatever fluid you are trying without FM first.
Then IF needed add the minimum required to make the diff noise acceptable.

[nyghtryder]

Originally Posted by 801MS3 I hate to poop all over this thread with my negativity... BUT I have been following this thread for a while now with the plans of using the motorcraft fluid. And being really optimistic because of all the positive feedback people are giving. I wanted it mostly because i live in SLC, UT and the winters here are a bitch and cold weather shifting is a joke. So i finally got my Motorcraft fluid $57 later my tranny feels almost exactly the same as it did with the stock fluid.. Cold shifting feels the same so does warm shifting. I was hoping it would help with my sometimes "crunchy" 1-2 shift but it didn't, if anything it made it worse. I will propbably either try amsoil in the spring or the BG syncromesh. I used BG in my DSM and it was awesome. Side note: 2 other local ms3 owners swapped to the same fluid the same day i did, and their thoughts were mixed. But that could just be the placebo effect and hopes that the $57 "upgrade" you just did actually made a difference.. Dissapointed

how many miles you put on the new fluid. most say that it gets better with time

[801MS3]

Only a few hundred.. I drove a good 40-50 miles in one trip and it feels better. I don't know if it has to do with it getting hot or what but it felt fine.
But with my commute only being 6 miles to work and 6 home, it wont get up to that ideal temp so its a bit of a let down. Especially when one of the main reasons i bought it was to improve the cold shifting.
Hopefully it improves because im about to drain it.

[Snyeed]

I drove all over today Austin and by the time I got home the shifting felt great, not sure how many miles I have put on the new fluid but I am hoping it is getting better with age.

[801MS3]

Seems to.. It felt tons better today..

Ill post up again in a couple of days, hopefully with more positive feedback.

[snailD]

i kind of find it weird that it gets better over time.... enlighten me on why this would possibly happen? could it be your just getting used to it?

[Teethkikr]

So I work for Chrysler and we have a 75-80 Full Synthetic M/T Fluid.. What is in the Motorcraft stuff to make it better for our cars than another when they are all synthetic

[FreeFlyFreak]

I would try that Chrysler stuff, especially if you have a Gen2 let us know how it is.

[Tommy]

Thanks for this.

[Tomas]

Did the tranny oil change yesterday and went with Amsoil.
I hate it. Much worse than stock. LSD whines like crazy accelerating out of tight turns in 1st gear. Gears don't feel smoother engaging at all. On the contrary. Feels like they clonck and grind more. I never really had any major grinding issues on the stock oil. Only did the change as a part of maintenance.
Only have 30 miles after change. Is there are break in period or somthing similar?
I am thinking If it does not get better in another 200 miles I'll change it for something else.

Edit:
09 MS3
25K miles

[Cataphract_40]

Go for the XT-M5-QS

[Tomas]

yeah, but I've read a few posts in here where people have tried both Amsoil and Motorcraft and they said Amsoil was better. Idk, might try it anyway

[ms3077]

I've tried both Amsoil and the Motorcraft stuff I would say the Motorcraft works better for the transmission. However I use Amsoil for the motor.

[801MS3]

Im still not enjoying any benifit at all from the motorcraft.. I changed it because my car has 48k, if it doesn't improve with warmer weather i will be going back to stock oil.
I had zero problems with stock oil and now i have a crunchy second gear.. Not awesome.

[Tomas]

I ordered some motorcraft and will change the amsoil for it. Post to follow.
Will keep the amsoil in a container after draining just in case I want to put it back.

The amsoil has gotten a little better after 200 miles.

[mouse0330]

first trans fluid change at 30k miles to redline and now at 67k with no problem whatsoever....wonder why other ms3 trans would have problems, would not change to anything else until redline fails lol, if other trans fluid work for you stay with that brand

[bait]

I've still got some redline sitting around, I might give that a shot and see if it helps.

[nue]

Any consensus as to when to change the tranny fluid? Or is what FFF posted a good enough interval?

[R.MS3]

15k miles max from 0 miles, i would say every 30k miles after that.

[paramount]

So I am new here and I am too stupid to figure out how to post a new thread. I do not actually own a mazdaspeed3, however I am installing the same transmission that the ms3 has in my automatic car as a project. I would like to know what you guys are at RPM wise while traveling 65 mph. Thanks!

[forcedinduktion]

luckily no problems just whine since day one