Fuel Rail High Pressure Sensor Upgrade

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Erich Hey, that's T-Bone to you.

Mr. T-Bone yessir

[Erich]

Originally Posted by Dano2010 Mr. T-Bone yessir

Lol, was looking for a response of something like "What ever you say KoKo"

George is KoKo - YouTube

George is KoKo - YouTube

[Dano]

hahah I was actually trying to place your quoted retort but couldn't do it...so I improvised...

I actually have every episode on DVD...need to go back and watch again...one of the greatest comedy shows ever IMO.

hows the whip coming along...500WHP yet?

[superskaterxes]

got my sensor yesterday.

i think i have also sourced the male side of the OEM connector so that we can make this 100% PnP (instead of just having to re-pin the stock harness). i will be working near richmond where the place is located who sells all the connectors so i think ill take a ride after work on monday and bring the OEM harness to make sure its 100% compatible.

i also checked to make sure the connectors i ordered from TE were the right ones and it looks like it fits the new sensor spot on!

[Erich]

Originally Posted by Dano2010 hahah I was actually trying to place your quoted retort but couldn't do it...so I improvised... I actually have every episode on DVD...need to go back and watch again...one of the greatest comedy shows ever IMO. hows the whip coming along...500WHP yet?

2nd-5th log posted in my thread last night. Still a ways to go, but coming along nicely.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Erich 2nd-5th log posted in my thread last night. Still a ways to go, but coming along nicely.

LOL I thought I WAS posting in ur thread too many subs.

[Erich]

Samples arrived today.

[superskaterxes]

i cant wait any longer, im prob gona install this tomm after work!

[Dano]

great avatar Erich...is it a lamp or a crotch.....classic

[superskaterxes]

so i attempted to install this friday with not much luck. according to the datasheet the pins are in a different order then are stamped on the sensor itself. when i connected it according to the datasheet i got a pegged output from the sensor of 2030psi. i need to try it again today with the pins in the reverse order to see if that works as well. i will update when i have some conclusive evidence. so far it fits just fine in the rail and there shouldent be any clearance issues either.

i also got my new connectors which fits perfectly on the stock harness so i can use that as a 100% PnP option so u dont have to cut/repin the stock harness.

[m4tic]

are you looking at the right end.. in relation to the pinout, sounds like you need to flip it around to match the pinout

[superskaterxes]

UPDATE:

so i FINALLY got this thing working. i did end up having to switch the supply/gnd pins and the sensor seems to be working. here is what i have deduced so far:

Playing with the scalar does indeed change the output of the sensor by whatever % you change it. The offset doesent seem to do much as i couldent notice anything when i was playing with it.

that problem now is that the sensor output is pegged at ~1300 psi. so normal cruising hovers around 1250-1300 where normally it would be 1700ish. it doesent flatline like the stock sensor would at 2030 but doesent want to go above that 1300 mark. im working closely with cobb on this and i will update the OP with all of the information so far.

[06Speed6]

I guess that is sortof good news.

[superskaterxes]

MORE UPDATES:

ok so braden figured out the correct scalars and it turns out we also needed to scale the HPFP tables using a super tricky calculation. David made up a giant excel sheet for easy copy/paste into ATR and i edited it a little more to make it easier to read/understand.

right now im getting a cut at the onset of boost and my AFR's are tanking into the high 8's.. im pretty sure this is because ive modified the pressure tables but hopefully cobb can shed some light as to whats going on.

[kmac]

I'm so going to suck your cock if this works and if it doesn't I'll still give u an over under as a consolation prize , just for playing.

[06Speed6]

Nice, somehow I am not surprised that we have to change everything. Thats the way it always seems to be on this engine.

Can you shoot me a copy of that spreadsheet? Ide like to take a look at it.

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Nice, somehow I am not surprised that we have to change everything. Thats the way it always seems to be on this engine. Can you shoot me a copy of that spreadsheet? Ide like to take a look at it.

ok MORE SUPER DUPER UPDATES!!!!

braden has been firing calibrations back and forth to me and it seems like were 95% of the way there. the DH is reporting the correct pressure but im still getting these tiny cuts on any sort of throttle input. im 99% sure that he has my MAX A/B tables set to close to my highest targets and the car is freaking out a little bit. as soon as i confirm this with him everything should be good to go.


btw it turns out we dont need to scale the targets at all (as i predicted in the beg haha) because were only scaling the sensors output so it should still read the correct pressure. therefore im not gona send u the sheet marcus unless u really want it lol

[SSinstaller]

What pressures are you able to run now? Have you run into any issues with the injectors yet?

I hit 117% InjDC on the way to work this morning.... 450g/s in second gear.... AFR is right on target, but I know I'm shooting fuel out the tailpipe as soot..

[bcmurphy87]

wow looks like good work and research going on in here. I am glad to see cobb is working with you to make this happen!

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by SSinstaller What pressures are you able to run now? Have you run into any issues with the injectors yet? I hit 117% InjDC on the way to work this morning.... 450g/s in second gear.... AFR is right on target, but I know I'm shooting fuel out the tailpipe as soot..

well during cruise im seeing right about 2200psi but the littlest bit of throttle input and the car has these tiny little cuts. hopefully braden will get me one last map to test tonight.

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes well during cruise im seeing right about 2200psi but the littlest bit of throttle input and the car has these tiny little cuts. hopefully braden will get me one last map to test tonight.

2200+ would be great for WOT and >2.0 Loads, but seems very high for cruise/low load. Are the scalars still off?

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by SSinstaller 2200+ would be great for WOT and >2.0 Loads, but seems very high for cruise/low load. Are the scalars still off?

no thats what he set my targets too. my RV is 2250 and i think its good practice to target something just slightly under your RV crack pressure just like the stock setup (just guessing here but OEM's usually do shit for a reason)

theres also no reason why it cant be 2200 for cruise because you would just have a smaller PW/IDC to achieve the same flow. it would also be a finer mist with the higher pressure so im guessing it would help with a more even burn/economy.

im itching like crazy to do my first full WOT pull at 2200 psi and see how stupid low my IDC's are lol

[SSinstaller]

A 15%~20% drop would be about right for 2200psi...

[06Speed6]

Nice work, I was wondering why he thought all of the other changes needed to be made.

Ide still like to see the spreadsheet, I am always trying to learn something new.

[phate]

I'm pretty damn excited about this for ETHANOL!!!!!!!

[06Speed6]

I was doing some tweaking to my rail pressure tables and I figured out that the stock valve opens before 1750psi, If I lower the target from ~1680ish psi to around ~1650psi where the occilation of the pressure never exceeds 1700psi, my rail pressures are way way more stable. My pressure was previously in a 75-100psi range and now it is in a 25-30psi range.

If your fuel pressure isnt stable at 2200psi, you might be cracking the RV open.

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 I was doing some tweaking to my rail pressure tables and I figured out that the stock valve opens before 1750psi, If I lower the target from ~1680ish psi to around ~1650psi where the occilation of the pressure never exceeds 1700psi, my rail pressures are way way more stable. My pressure was previously in a 75-100psi range and now it is in a 25-30psi range. If your fuel pressure isnt stable at 2200psi, you might be cracking the RV open.

im def cracking the RV but at this point i cant tell till i can go WOT.

heres bradens latest update.

The cut is not related to the Max A/B tables. Those tables are a "ceiling" for the fuel pressure targets. They are actually voltages being displayed as a pressure target based off of the factory 140bar sensor. The ECU will look at the targets from the desired maps first, and compare them to the max, then use the lower of the two. The DI fuel pressure system is designed to run in full closed loop. It uses the output of the HPFP Sensor as an input to actuate the spill valve. The desired fuel pressure targets are actually voltage caps for the spill valve to oscillate. It's all quite complex in logic but it is essentially an electronic FPR. As we get closer to something usable for you I'll shoot you an update. There will be a few changes involved with this discover that will alter the HPFP tables quite a bit from how they are now.

[06Speed6]

Keep us posted, this is definitely some good news.

[superskaterxes]

ok so braden just sent me a map, ill have updates after work.

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes ok so braden just sent me a map, ill have updates after work.

EDIT: they changed all sorts of things so im hoping this is the golden ticket!!!

[BlueStreak]

Where are you guys sourcing the upgraded relief valve?

[Erich]

I think superskaterxes put his together from Silver Demon's part list.

[SSinstaller]

Has the upgraded sensor completely eliminated the big cut at 2074psi?

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by Erich I think superskaterxes put his together from Silver Demon's part list.

correct, the only thing u cant buy is the SS adapter that scott made from scratch. After the IM is up and running he may have plans to get these made for everyone who needs them. ill let him comment though.

@SilverDemon

Originally Posted by SSinstaller Has the upgraded sensor completely eliminated the big cut at 2074psi?

yes, sort of. todays testing should reveal lots of fun things but that cut is due to pegging the stock sensor.

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes correct, the only thing u cant buy is the SS adapter that scott made from scratch. After the IM is up and running he may have plans to get these made for everyone who needs them. ill let him comment though. @SilverDemon yes, sort of. todays testing should reveal lots of fun things but that cut is due to pegging the stock sensor.

I guessing they found some more tables dealing with the HPFP and the sensor? Something dealing with the FP shoots higher when we cross 80% InjDC(I still sometimes hit 2K psi when INjDC gets close to 100)?

[SilverDemon]

I am glad that I did not make the adapters for the HPRV from Generate. Mine failed over the past week. It lasted just more than a year. I told Super to keep an eye on the he has. (I made 2 of them at the same time) Although, it should be fine for the testing he is doing, I am just not sure of the reliability.

[Dano]

* prepared for tomato tossing*

has anyone, cough cough @Erich, tried DFDD's HPRV?

*pls be gental*

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by Dano * prepared for tomato tossing* has anyone, cough cough @Erich, tried DFDD's HPRV? *pls be gental*

I have. It worked just fine, but my HPFP is on steroids and kept pegging the OEM FP sensor.. Once Cobb gets the new sensor working properly I'll be re-installing DFDD/PTP's 2350psi RV...

[Dano]

so his valve has the adapter thinggy that SD is having issues with?

yeah when cobb/anthony gets the scalars figured out you guys will be set.

that and once you get some 20% larger injectors LOL

[Erich]

Originally Posted by Dano * prepared for tomato tossing* has anyone, cough cough @Erich, tried DFDD's HPRV? *pls be gental*

Back in December I did the initial testing on them in my car (when I tried to command over 2070 and found out that is bad, mmmmkay.) Had several different pressure settings in there . With a 2050 I saw much the same behavior people see with the stock valve, just moved 200+ PSI north. Been running a 2150 PSI valve for 8 plus months now with no issue at all.

When Superskater and Cobb get the scaling ironed out I will probably swap in a 2250 or 2300 PSI rv and try to get my commanded pressures in the 2200 to 2250 range.

I believe @FORZDA 1 was running one too.