DM TMM testing and reviews diary

[Farhan@DM]

Originally Posted by volcomcinematic i want mine..right meow.

Two weeks-ish.

[Mauro_Penguin]

I think I'll be that guy...

1) do you guys have any plans at all on working on a 4th mount for the front?

2) I think its been asked before but when you get all your mounts back in stock, will you have a package deal for ordering all of them together?

[Farhan@DM]

Originally Posted by Mauro_Penguin I think I'll be that guy... 1) do you guys have any plans at all on working on a 4th mount for the front? 2) I think its been asked before but when you get all your mounts back in stock, will you have a package deal for ordering all of them together?

1) Not at this time.

2) Yes. Additionally, the deal will apply to those that have bought either, or both available mounts already.

[macdiesel]

4 mount might be overkill


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[Enki]

I'll let you guys know what breaks first tonight when I hit the dragstrip. That should let everyone know if that fourth mount is needed for most cars.

[knocturnal]

Would this mount be good with the factory PMM? I can only buy one at a time.

[King Scumbag]

Originally Posted by knocturnal Would this mount be good with the factory PMM? I can only buy one at a time.

Get a PMM first. They are always the first to go.

[mrmonk7663]

I have a cpe stage 2 rmm. I have NO balance shaft. Putting any PMM other than stock in the car causes the dash to vibrate at a ridiculous level. I tried the DM PMM and it was the same result, although It did vibrate less than other pmms and I could use my mirrors more. I had the DM PMM paired with the stock TMM. I am looking for an honest opinion. Will the vibes Increase by using both the DM PMM and DM TMM or should they decrease over my previous experience using DM PMM and stock TMM. I am curious if the stock tmm design and the DM PMM design were in essence fighting each other. Hope this makes sense.

[macdiesel]

It sounds like the previous reviews noted no change in vibes experienced with all three mounts and bsd.


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[mrmonk7663]

I can live with vibes...I just can't live with my dash resonating and shaking (especially in the winter that's when it's the worst)

[King Scumbag]

Originally Posted by mrmonk7663 I have a cpe stage 2 rmm. I have NO balance shaft. Putting any PMM other than stock in the car causes the dash to vibrate at a ridiculous level. I tried the DM PMM and it was the same result, although It did vibrate less than other pmms and I could use my mirrors more. I had the DM PMM paired with the stock TMM. I am looking for an honest opinion. Will the vibes Increase by using both the DM PMM and DM TMM or should they decrease over my previous experience using DM PMM and stock TMM. I am curious if the stock tmm design and the DM PMM design were in essence fighting each other. Hope this makes sense.

I've heard the opposite actually. I know a few people that extreme dash vibes were created with the addition of an upgraded TMM having no BSD.

Maybe I'm just used to it now but like insaid in my review I'm running fully built with no BS as well and the DM TMM actually dropped my vibrations by at least half of what they used to be.

[mrmonk7663]

I guess I'll have to give it a shot when it's released. As well as the cpe rmm works, it can't put all the power down by itself. Thanks man.

[Enki]

Mine cut NVH considerably. There's an RPM zone where there is absolutely no NVH at all, and even the rear view mirror is mostly usable (though I normally have music playing and the bass shakes it quite a bit but still).

[mrmonk7663]

Thanks Enki. Im looking forward to this then. I had the CPE trilogy at one point, and vibe wise, it was better than anything on the market at the time....but still too much vibes with the BSD to take someone out without them feeling like your car was falling apart lol.

[speedfreak2013]

I need this in my life

[specvspeedfreak]

How is the noise with the DM TMM? I could deal with some vibes but i hated the tractor noise when i had the JBR TMM.

[King Scumbag]

Originally Posted by specvspeedfreak How is the noise with the DM TMM? I could deal with some vibes but i hated the tractor noise when i had the JBR TMM.

Did you read ANY of the reviews lol or the 5 times it been talked about in the thread? Lol

[specvspeedfreak]

Originally Posted by King Scumbag Did you read ANY of the reviews lol or the 5 times it been talked about in the thread? Lol

My bad, read it a few days ago and only remembered more talk about the reduction in vibes.

What TMM did you have before?

[Nevershallifall]

Ohh yeah I am prepping the bank account now for a Pmm/Tmm combo

[King Scumbag]

Originally Posted by specvspeedfreak My bad, read it a few days ago and only remembered more talk about the reduction in vibes. What TMM did you have before?

JBR 70d

[Mauro_Penguin]

Originally Posted by King Scumbag JBR 70d

So wait.... you had a 70d TMM and felt the vibes and noise were so bad that you switched brands?!?! LOL

I have full JBR 88's, with ~20k miles, NFG for vibes. The noise is what I find obnoxious, the bluetooth on my Pu is a bitch to use unless I'm at a dead stop. The shitty factory radio doesn't help either.

I'm equally torn between switching all of them out, trying this trilogy, and taking whatever loss for selling mine used; or just getting a 4th mount to help take some load off the factory positions.

[King Scumbag]

Originally Posted by Mauro_Penguin So wait.... you had a 70d TMM and felt the vibes and noise were so bad that you switched brands?!?! LOL

Yyup and that's prior to it starting to fall apart lol

Also you forgot to quote my BSD in there

[Enki]

I'm the same; had JBR trilogy, now have DM 3 way.

[monkey.bones.007]

Originally Posted by Enki I'm the same; had JBR trilogy, now have DM 3 way.

Same here.

tapatalk, it sucks

[MD1032]

Originally Posted by monkey.bones.007 Same here. tapatalk, it sucks

I think you had the JBR trilogy when I rode in your car at ENM, right?

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[07micasp3]

Nishan, your turn. Though - im sold.

[Farhan@DM]

@ms3blackmica;

[King Scumbag]

Originally Posted by Farhan@DM @ms3blackmica; your slacking

Fixed.

[Farhan@DM]

Originally Posted by King Scumbag Fixed.

You're*

[King Scumbag]

Originally Posted by Farhan@DM You're*

Technically you're correcting yourself, because it's in a quoted reply from you.

[ms3blackmica]

I just got back from Ohio for the Buschur shootout on early Monday morning. Needed a day to recoup and catch up.

I have been writing my review over the course of 5 days, that's how much little time I had this weekend haha.

I have quite a few pictures & video as well showing the mounts in action to share.

The only video I still have to take is driving around from inside the cabin where you can very clearly see that I have usable mirrors using DM side mounts which I would like to share with everyone.

I'll finish up my review tonight!

[Enki]

I keep forgetting to do that, since I don't drive every day.

[maisonvi]

So I got my mount a while back, but due to many other issues I’ve only been able to drive on it for about a week now. Here are my impressions based on that week:

First off, as a bit of background. My current setup is a CP-E Stage 2 RMM and an OEM PMM with a Street Unit TMM. I had a Street Unit PMM as well, but the vibes were so bad with both that I couldn’t drive the car. It was so bad I had to empty the glove box because it rattled everything in it like crazy. Turns out the PMM was failed miserably (big surprise) so Im back to the OEM for now which works nice. I also have a balance shaft delete on my built motor.

On to the DM TMM. First I will say I like the design much better than the Street Unit model I’m coming from. The Street Unit uses the OEM style mount to the transmission and it’s just one bolt that is difficult to like up and easy to strip from what I’ve seen. Not a fan at all of this set up. The DM mount removes this OEM mounting point and uses its 3 lower locations for mounting. In my mind this is a way better solution. The one issue with the install I had (and Matt is addressing this I believe) is the bolt for the bushing is so long that you have to remove the shifter cable mounts. If possible not having to do that would make install that much easier, but I don’t think it’s a deal breaker either way.

So everything is installed, and I start the car up. Vibes are pretty prevalent, I was surprised actually how much there was, I would say on par or more than the Street Unit one I just took off. From what everyone was saying this seemed odd to me. Either way, I figured it is what it is and I need to test this bad boy. Apparently it needed break in, because they settled way down and now are much better than the old mount I had in there.

I will say, once this mount broke in, everything is much smoother. At first when I thought they were the same, I was already happy with the mount as I didn’t trust my street unit and was looking to swap it out anyway. But after a solid week of driving the car feels much more bearable than it was before. There is still some transmission noise, maybe even a bit more than the SU but I attribute that to a much better mounting system. All in all it’s worth the trade off because now my dash is much quieter and I can use my rear-view mirror again.

Only other point I want to touch on is traction and wheel hop. I didn’t think I had terrible wheel hop before, but I would get some now that then. When I had the Street Unit it I was at most 380whp. Along with the DM TMM I added meth to my system, and as of this morning VD puts me at 430whp. I’ve been logging all week and have had zero wheel hop. Could be how I’m driving, could be other things, but I dare say it has really improved. This is something I would want more than a week to test though.

Overall I would for sure recommend this mount to someone who is looking for one. Its mild enough that I might even consider going to a DM PMM and having full mounts again.


TLDR: DM TMM > SU TMM

Also, Im lazy and didn’t proof read this at all. If you find something off, sue me.

[mrmonk7663]

From what I read...the vibes go down with the addition of the PMM and TMM in tandem. You sound like a good candidate to try this out!

[WetzMS3]

Yo @ms3blackmica; did you get those logs I sent?

[HawkeyeGeoff]

Originally Posted by mrmonk7663 From what I read...the vibes go down with the addition of the PMM and TMM in tandem. You sound like a good candidate to try this out!

I will be going from SU side mounts to both DM side mounts. I haz the BSD.

I had a SU pmm and switched to a 70 duro JBR, which really is pretty awful for NVH. My steering wheel shakes at my 1k idle.

Once he can get me both of them, i'll throw them on together and let you guys know how it goes.

[ms3blackmica]

Alright, I finally got some time to write this up for you guys. I'll provide as much info as I think is necessary so that you can grasp onto the experiences I have had with Damond Motorsports hardware and not lose any understanding in the process.

My car is a 2013 MS3 running an 3076R on E85 and making 500 WHP. It is an OEM Engine and it does NOT have a BSD. I will be installing a BSD soon when I find some time. Although, I believe WetzMS3 covered his experiences with the DM Mounts and a BSD on his built engine.

I am running the DM PMM & TMM. My RMM is a JBR 88 Duro Dog bone mount so let it be known now that all my experiences which I am sharing with you is with that RMM mount in place along with the DM PMM/TMM Combo. Anyone can tell you that although I was chosen as a BETA tester for the DM TMM, I have no problem letting any negative thoughts/opinions be known and am not going to bias towards positive thoughts simply because I was asked to test.

Although this is a review on the TMM, I can not help but express my thoughts on the PMM as well because it is responsible for a lot of my newly found enjoyment with the car being that the PMM is responsible for the most vibes/harshness out of the 3 engine mounts in place on the MS3 because it is fastened to the engine itself.


TMM Installation:

Installation was easy. I will make note that I have owned an MS3 since 2009 so I am no amateur when it comes to doing motor mount swaps but I can say with confidence that even if I didn't, this install would have been very easy and straight forward. The orientation & design of the mount makes it easy to access the hardware and tighten all the fasteners. I have had mounts where getting the center through-bolt through the bushing was a nightmare due to orientation.

Supporting the transmission with a jack, I jumped right into removing the OEM mount. This took me all of 15 minutes. I assembled the lower half of the TMM (Base plate & Bushing housing) outside of the car and torqued the bolts/nuts to the required specs and mounted it on to the transmission case. I had to remove the shifter cable bracket in order to do this and then re-installed it right after. Torqued the 2 nuts over the OEM studs and the 1 bolt provided by DM. I use loctite thread locker on these threads as a force of habit. It doesn't hurt.

The upper plate was very tight to fit over the bushing. I could not get it on, easily. Matt Damond did inform me that it would be difficult prior to receiving the mount. I called up Farhan@DM on the phone and asked him if it was supposed to be this tight and he informed me that it was indeed that way and is a change that they are making to the production pieces. Needless to say, all I had to do was whip out a small wooden 2x4 and with one swift throw of a hammer the plate slipped right over the bushing and I was on my way to tightening & torquing the final nuts and bolts.

The install was seriously all that easy... with the exception of the tight clearance of the upper plate to the bushing holder which as mentioned, is being addressed on production units. Otherwise, the install didn't take me more than 1 hour and this was only because I took my time and had to call Farhan for a few minutes. I could do it again in 30 minutes although I'd imagine for someone who has never done a TMM install, this could take up to 2 hours as they familiarize themselves with how everything goes together. It is very straight-forward.


Driving Experience:

After installation, the first thing anyone will notice is the amplified sound of clutch chatter during engagement/disengagement and sometimes at idle as well. I have an OEM clutch and the noises are still quite amplified. This is normal and to be expected with an TMM upgrade. You will also notice some whine from the transmission at low engine speed steadily cruising. This is normal with an upgraded TMM.

Shifts are much smoother, more direct, and firm. Shifting while casually driving is improved as I expected it to be. The most apparent improvement is shifting at WOT. There is no more fear that you are going to miss a gear (especially 3rd) and get locked out because you didn't fully move over the selector fork. This is one of the best improvements of having a TMM upgrade and why I would recommend it to anyone.

I cannot comment on wheel hop because I run Nitto NT01R's in a 245/45/17 size and therefore I have never experienced wheel hop to begin with even when all I had was a RMM. I do remember what it was like on stock tires and being fully mounted in my Gen 1 MS3; wheel hop was essentially eliminated and the tires would only spin. I am sure that is how it would have felt in my case if I wasn't on an R Compound competition radial. The entire engine/drive-train just feels overall more planted and you can feel it when you step on the pedal and there is no initial slop. Instead, the entire car just sort of goes along with you is the best way I can describe it.

One way which I have always enjoyed experimenting how much slop there is due to the lack of rigidity with engine mounts is by holding the E-Brake up very tight and attempting to take off. The rear tires hold the car and the engine mounts tend to always show their weakness.

I have taken a video of this in my car here:

MazdaSpeed Forums Presents: YouTube

MazdaSpeed Forums Presents: YouTube

If you want to see how the engine slops from the factory, you can see videos on youtube of MS3's doing dyno pulls with stock mounts for a comparison.

I took some videos yesterday driving around to capture the in-cabin experience. I think that you can see very clearly how little the effects from vibration are as well as the fact that the mirrors do not rattle and shake like they are having a seizure. The video is much less a video review and more just to show what it's like being inside the cabin during normal driving, WOT, and high rpm deceleration.

Video here:

YouTube Short

YouTube Short

Summary:

I couldn't be any happier.

I strongly recommending getting a DM PMM as well because I truly feel that you'll want both to experience the amount of time & engineering put into this hardware to provide a rigid mounting solution but also dampen NHV. I will be ordering a DM RMM next week to complete my trio of mounts.

I'm still in disbelief that I have useable mirrors. Farhan@DM told me to expect that and I honestly did not believe him. I am so used to having a completely uncomfortable and ridiculously vibrating car when fully mounted but these guys have shown me that it's possible to keep the engine rigidly mounted and still dampen NVH.

I've purchased many mounts since 2009 and have gone through them like some people do with BOV's, and I will have to say that these are the best mounts I have ever owned and have no reason to change.

Bushing longevity is important for me and I was told WetzMS3 has 20k on his and the bushings are still like new.

With all that said, I appreciate Matt & Farhan asking me to test the TMM out for them. I needed to get an upgraded TMM and had been waiting for their release to begin with. I won't blab on any longer and hope that the few videos I took show others on how awesome driving a fully mounted MS3 is that doesn't make you want to rip your hair out.

-Nishan

[Farhan@DM]

Wetz posted his experience with bushing life thus far
here

These TMM bushings are the same, off the shelf, unmodified bushings we use on the PMM.

While I'm on the bushings, I reiterate my opinion that bushing durometer, by itself, does not dictate NVH. Sure, it can be used to change NVH, but it's not the golden knob that it may be thought of as, and it isn't necessary. I think we're well on our way to demonstrating this.














If you still care, these are 88A.

[maisonvi]

Originally Posted by Farhan@DM Wetz posted his experience with bushing life thus far here These TMM bushings are the same, off the shelf, unmodified bushings we use on the PMM. While I'm on the bushings, I reiterate my opinion that bushing durometer, by itself, does not dictate NVH. Sure, it can be used to change NVH, but it's not the golden knob that it may be thought of as, and it isn't necessary. I think we're well on our way to demonstrating this. If you still care, these are 88A.

Hardness (durometer is actually the tool used to measure hardness, not the measurement itself) can only be compared when you have 2 bushings that are the same size. When you change the wall thickness or any other geometry you can make a 70 hardness mount feel like it gives more vibes than a 90. People dont understand this.

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[Atomic41]

Will you post video from a speed3 on idle, idle with AC, WOT etc to see the noise, vibes and vibration from the interior of a speed3 with your 3 mounts ???

It will be nice