Had enough of the ST manifold teasing?

[Farhan@DM]

If you like what you've seen so far and you want to know more, head over to our blog. We answer the questions you've been asking, with data.

Damond Motorsports Mazdaspeed ST Manifold Adapter Kit

Update 6/9/2016:
Here's the dyno data
DM Mazdaspeed ST Intake Manifold Dyno Data

[nindoja]

"Had enough of the ST manifold teasing?"... Proceeds to tease more by not showing the actual part they are selling.

Bravo @Farhan@DM;, bravo.

[TiGraySpeed6]

I'm not typically a fanboi, but consider me standing in line tapping my foot impatiently.....

Much Want. First batch, don't need PI....

[[R]usty]

If I could keep my TMIC I would be all over this.

[OverBoosted]

Very interested in this.

[aackthpt]

Interested... yes.

[g00s3y]

Definitely interested, will be awesome.

[Mazdazilla6]

For those interested here are a couple shots of the mani in my car.

[Farhan@DM]

Originally Posted by nindoja "Had enough of the ST manifold teasing?"... Proceeds to tease more by not showing the actual part they are selling. Bravo @Farhan@DM;, bravo.

Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 For those interested here are a couple shots of the mani in my car.

Happy meow?

[Thepedigree13]

Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 For those interested here are a couple shots of the mani in my car.

I just came!!!

[g00s3y]

Originally Posted by Farhan@DM Happy meow?

It's not on my car yet, so no, not happy meow, sad meow.

[Thepedigree13]

I too hope this works with TMIC.

Big Thanks to DM for the effort, and great idea.

[nindoja]

Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 For those interested here are a couple shots of the mani in my car.

I hate you right now. You know why, but I hate you right now.

Originally Posted by Farhan@DM Happy meow?

Yup. Blue balls slowly becoming less blue.

[Atomic41]

There is a possibility this part will fit with TMIC ???

[Farhan@DM]

Originally Posted by Atomic41 There is a possibility this part will fit with TMIC ???

We aim to find out.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 For those interested here are a couple shots of the mani in my car.

to thank or to groan...that is the question.

[WetzMS3]

Oh hai.

Subbed for info!

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[KiwiFlavor]

Oh dear God.... Please, TMIC fitment!!

[Gswin10Spd3]

If this can be made to fit with a stock TMIC I am definitely interested. Would be nice to see back to back stock vs st manifold dyno results with any type of intercooler to see what kind of gains can be had.

[Mauro_Penguin]

Very nice kit, can't wait to see the finished product. 2 questions come to mind though.

1) what are the limitations of this plastic mani? No more 5th port or pre throttle body meth due to plastic corrossion?

2) what is transient throttle like with this high CFM capacity? I've never liked the JMF because of the ridiculous torque loss trade for top end flow.

[r3d]

Definitely watching where this is going and if it has not been mentioned enough yet, TMIC fitment would be preferred, but not critical.

[KiwiFlavor]

Originally Posted by r3d TMIC fitment would be preferred, but not critical.

[WetzMS3]

Originally Posted by Mauro_Penguin Very nice kit, can't wait to see the finished product. 2 questions come to mind though. 1) what are the limitations of this plastic mani? No more 5th port or pre throttle body meth due to plastic corrossion? 2) what is transient throttle like with this high CFM capacity? I've never liked the JMF because of the ridiculous torque loss trade for top end flow.

1- Post TB meth, DM TB spacer, was used on this manifold for months towards the end of race season last year. A lot of meth.

2- I did not notice a huge loss of transient response. My turbo does seem to enjoy spooling a tad bit earlier though.

[Mazdazilla6]

Originally Posted by Mauro_Penguin I've never liked the JMF because of the ridiculous torque loss trade for top end flow.

The reason for that is because the JMF has SERIOUSLY short runners making it good for extremely high RPM applications. RPM levels that are unobtainable for us. This is a MUCH better fit for our engine because it has longer runners, which means it won't sacrifice low down torque but at the same time it also won't be a flow restriction at higher power levels.

I don't see any issues taking this mani to 7-800hp. After I get my built engine in my car we'll see if it can keep up with my 76lb/min turbo, rule of thumb is 1lb/min=10hp so the end goal for me is somewhere around 750hp. Ish.

[Gswin10Spd3]

I was going to add also that yesterday I datalogged my wife's 2.0 Ecoboost Fusion and that thing has gobs of low end torque without even building boost and transient response is pretty good in my opinion. I know it's a different vehicle altogether but it has it's similarities.

[speed3 britz]

Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 For those interested here are a couple shots of the mani in my car.

You lied to me... You said this as a bimmer manifold that was direct fit

Also whats the clearance between the TB and the oil filter head since they're in a close relative location?

[Spectrix]

Originally Posted by Gswin10Spd3 If this can be made to fit with a stock TMIC I am definitely interested. Would be nice to see back to back stock vs st manifold dyno results with any type of intercooler to see what kind of gains can be had.

There are a couple of points to make here;

1. The TMIC bolts directly to the standard intake manifold, replacement brackets would need to be fabricated to be able to use with the ST manifold with a TMIC.

2. The stock manifold flows reasonably well for the stock k04 turbo and is going strong even with some very large turbos builds. Minimal (or no) gains have been shown even with removal of VTCS and major porting.

The real beauty of the ST manifold is that it flows very evenly across each runner. That's great for keeping individual AFRs and EGTs even across cylinders but unlikely to yield actual power gains until very high airflow is reached.
With much larger runners and the loss of VTCS, it may be that low end torque losses outweigh any kind of top end benefits.

This is an excellent manifold, it's just not a sensible first mod for a 100% stock mazdaspeed as per your signature.

[Gswin10Spd3]

Originally Posted by Spectrix There are a couple of points to make here; 1. The TMIC bolts directly to the standard intake manifold, replacement brackets would need to be fabricated to be able to use with the ST manifold with a TMIC. 2. The stock manifold flows reasonably well for the stock k04 turbo and is going strong even with some very large turbos builds. Minimal (or no) gains have been shown even with removal of VTCS and major porting. The real beauty of the ST manifold is that it flows very evenly across each runner. That's great for keeping individual AFRs and EGTs even across cylinders but unlikely to yield actual power gains until very high airflow is reached. With much larger runners and the loss of VTCS, it may be that low end torque losses outweigh any kind of top end benefits. This is an excellent manifold, it's just not a sensible first mod for a 100% stock mazdaspeed as per your signature.

Sensible mod for a completely stock car probably not but that hopefully won't be for long in my case. I am purely looking at it from a any gain possible point of view not a sensible point of view. The FoST manis are so cheap that if the kit itself to bolt it on is cheap enough as well it might be a good starting point for other mods.

[Cataphract_40]

Stupid sexy flow numbers.

Just when I thought I was "done" with my car...

[Thor Hammer]

I would also love to see a HP/Tq. comparison between stock and FoST manifolds before I put my money down. And maybe it wouldn't benefit me and my tiny K04 anyways as previously mentioned here.

Nice work Damond!

[Mazdazilla6]

Originally Posted by speed3 britz You lied to me... You said this as a bimmer manifold that was direct fit Also whats the clearance between the TB and the oil filter head since they're in a close relative location?

Mmmm can't quite say off the top of my head. I'm hours away from my car now too and will be for the next week. I will say though that I don't see it being an issue. Keep in mind though that there will be differences between the 3 and 6.

[WetzMS3]

Originally Posted by speed3 britz You lied to me... You said this as a bimmer manifold that was direct fit Also whats the clearance between the TB and the oil filter head since they're in a close relative location?

It fits. LOL.

It's a tight fit, and there isn't a ton of clearance, but it fits and works just fine. I've changed the oil on my car probably 8-10 times since it's been on there with no problem. (Yes, I change my oil too damn often.)

[broda]

Originally Posted by Thor Hammer I would also love to see a HP/Tq. comparison between stock and FoST manifolds before I put my money down. And maybe it wouldn't benefit me and my tiny K04 anyways as previously mentioned here. Nice work Damond!

I'm not sure if it would be worth it from a power point of view, but for maybe like $200-300 you have peace of mind knowing that your cylinders are all running relatively the same with the even flow rather than how our stock manifolds flow.

[KiwiFlavor]

Originally Posted by WetzMS3 It fits. LOL. It's a tight fit, and there isn't a ton of clearance, but it fits and works just fine. I've changed the oil on my car probably 8-10 times since it's been on there with no problem. (Yes, I change my oil too damn often.)

What kind of oil change we're talking about here??

[aackthpt]

Originally Posted by broda I'm not sure if it would be worth it from a power point of view, but for maybe like $200-300 you have peace of mind knowing that your cylinders are all running relatively the same with the even flow rather than how our stock manifolds flow.

My question is what does the even flow get you? The ability to push the tune harder? Or is it a possible durability improvement? If so, then how can the durability improvement be quantified?

Power numbers are easy to quantify but if I do this it wouldn't be because I want more power so I have to wonder other advantages are able to be characterized quantitatively, or even guessed at with 80% confidence.

This seems like if it can be made inexpensive enough, it can be the new TIG in that it would be convenient to do it when you clean your valves.

[broda]

Originally Posted by aackthpt My question is what does the even flow get you? The ability to push the tune harder? Or is it a possible durability improvement? If so, then how can the durability improvement be quantified? Power numbers are easy to quantify but if I do this it wouldn't be because I want more power so I have to wonder other advantages are able to be characterized quantitatively, or even guessed at with 80% confidence. This seems like if it can be made inexpensive enough, it can be the new TIG in that it would be convenient to do it when you clean your valves.

The flow imbalance will cause cylinders to run in an unbalanced fashion in respect to AFRs. You can have a cylinder at 11.8 at WOT but then another one can be at something like 12.5 which has an increased chance of detonation obviously. The flow imbalance of our stock IM is well documented on the forum.

[Mazdazilla6]

Originally Posted by aackthpt My question is what does the even flow get you? The ability to push the tune harder? Or is it a possible durability improvement? If so, then how can the durability improvement be quantified?

An engine can only make as much power as its weakest cylinder. The cylinder which receives the least amount of air will ultimately determine the total output of the entire engine. Without one of each sensor for each cylinder there is no way around this issue.

So by evening out the flow across the cylinders, you are making the engine work less hard to make the same amount of power, which improves longevity of the engine. Not only that but for those shooting for high power, it means they won't have a peg leg cylinder holding them back.

[Yatta]

Originally Posted by aackthpt My question is what does the even flow get you? The ability to push the tune harder? Or is it a possible durability improvement? If so, then how can the durability improvement be quantified? Power numbers are easy to quantify but if I do this it wouldn't be because I want more power so I have to wonder other advantages are able to be characterized quantitatively, or even guessed at with 80% confidence. This seems like if it can be made inexpensive enough, it can be the new TIG in that it would be convenient to do it when you clean your valves.

Unless you have per cylinder O2/fuel control it gets you closer to targeted AFR’s on each cylinder; the better the natural balance is the less you have to worry about being above and below your actual targeted fueling. our stock manifold can have one cylinder lean and one rich at the same time. I think the only reason you would not want this manifold being no or lightly modded is that you will need to address the emissions controls you would be removing (EGR, VTCS) and the possibility of having to go FMIC. Waiting to see how/if TMIC will work; I really don’t want to move from that but this is compelling enough to consider it.

[Gswin10Spd3]

Originally Posted by Yatta Unless you have per cylinder O2/fuel control it gets you closer to targeted AFR’s on each cylinder; the better the natural balance is the less you have to worry about being above and below your actual targeted fueling. our stock manifold can have one cylinder lean and one rich at the same time. I think the only reason you would not want this manifold being no or lightly modded is that you will need to address the emissions controls you would be removing (EGR, VTCS) and the possibility of having to go FMIC. Waiting to see how/if TMIC will work; I really don’t want to move from that but this is compelling enough to consider it.

This is is the way I was thinking from my earlier posts. If the final outcome is cheap enough with even a stock or aftermarket tmic or whatever your mods might be, it's still just overall better engineering in my opinion with or without gains, although I really can't see it hindering in any way power wise.

[Thepedigree13]

I just want it because it looks cool. I thought that's why we were all here in amazement.

All joking aside, even if there aren't substantial gains (which is subjective anyway), there are alot of people who like to add any type of improvement.

Some guys may need the potential added flow, while others justify the mod just for peace of mind or aesthetics.

Regardless this is interesting and I am excited to see where this goes.