Colder Plugs

[SPEEDRAC3R]

Just looking for input on when you need to switch out to colder plugs like the IVT22's or equiv.

Just installed my CorkSport SRI/TIP yesterday and will probably be installing the AccessPORT during the week. Do I need colder plugs with so few mods?

[wette460]

I have yet to be fully convinced that colder plugs actually do anything. I have yet to get them and don't plan on getting them until I see hard proof that they help. Most install posts I have seen end up having problems rather than benefits.

Please, somebody help OP and prove me wrong.

[dooderek]

heat range of plugs does not affect horsepower. colder = less likely detonation/preignition, too cold = misfire, stumbling etc.

[niterydr]

A buddy of mine is running 1 step colder plugs (IVT-22's) with Cobb SRI/TIP and the OTS Stage1+sf w/ an AP.

I helped him install them and he has been running great with no problems for around 30-40,000 miles.

[Amazon]

Originally Posted by dooderek heat range of plugs does not affect horsepower. colder = less likely detonation/preignition, too cold = misfire, stumbling etc.

Wrong you are my little asian friend. Spark blow out is going to affect power. This becomes an issue once you start throwing more air and fuel at our motors.

[RacerX78]

If you start adding boost and improving intake your going to increase heat in the cylinder. Step colder will allow the plug to properly deal with the heat, reducing the chances of plug melting and knock. I've had a TMIC, SRI & CBE and had step colder plugs in since 3K miles and had no issues with running them.

Originally Posted by Amazon Wrong you are my little asian friend. Spark blow out is going to affect power. This becomes an issue once you start throwing more air and fuel at our motors.

That true but as long as you properly gap your plugs you'll be ok.

[skiptowncat]

I had all sorts of hesitation and cuts as soon as I got an intake, it carried on when I got my HT and only stopped when I fitted itv22's.

[dooderek]

Originally Posted by Amazon Wrong you are my little asian friend. Spark blow out is going to affect power. This becomes an issue once you start throwing more air and fuel at our motors.

my venezuelan counterpart, i guess i worded it incorrectly or maybe i am perciving it wrong, blow out/misfire/stumbling etc to me is the engine unable to mechanically deliver the power it needs. if a engine can run at a heat range of 8, running 7 or lower will only decrease the chances of said detonation/pre ignition and of course too low like i stated above misfire etc etc. in no way does spark plugs increase hp is wat i mean or decease horsepower, just allows the engine to perform at peak efficency

[Amazon]

Originally Posted by PandaPu That true but as long as you properly gap your plugs you'll be ok.

Properly gapping isn't going to help if your plugs have too hot of a spark for your application.

Once again my asian philippino, if your sparks aren't igniting the fuel/air mixture due to blow out, then the engine will suffer power loss, albeit a slight amount. I have some logs of stock plugs vs cooler plugs if ya would like to see the difference plugs can make.

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by Amazon Wrong you are my little asian friend. Spark blow out is going to affect power. This becomes an issue once you start throwing more air and fuel at our motors.

I can attest to this. Running mid 13's (granted horrible 60') at 1000 ft elevation while flowing more air than my previous 12.6 at 5500 ft elevation.

Blowout can seriously seriously hamper the "power" of a car lol.


You could actually see the blow out in my logs, with stair stepper rpm curve lol. It was some funny shit.

[ak_spray]

So what plugs are you guys running? The Denso or a colder NGK?

[Amazon]

One of the guys had issues trying to get the NGK's to gap since they come pre gapped too wide. Most of us tend to go with Denso.

[dooderek]

well my muchacho the efficeny of the engine affects how it performs and how much power it can put to the ground, im not arguing with you there, and yes obv if your spark is blowing out then ignition isnt happening meaning no power agreed, the point i was trying to make is that, if an engine is operating at peak efficeny, switching heat ranges on a plug aslong as there is no misfire/detonation etc etc, horsepower will not change. the point of proper heat ranged plugs is to have the "correct" temp for ignition without misfire/detonation etc. make sense or am i speaking gook again?

[SPEEDRAC3R]

Car had been running awesome with just the intake for 250 plus miles, so I installed the AP on Tuesday. Started out running Stage1 + SF 91 Octane 1.08 map and noticed I got a lot of partial throttle surging, along with a very digital (on/off) throttle pedal.

Switched to the Stage1 91 Octane map and it was worse at first, but after 50 or so miles the problem has become much less prevalent, but it still seems to be there. Logged a 4th gear pull which seems pretty good albeit maybe a little lean (see attached).

Guessing that some of my problems are the uncalibrated MAF, but have also heard people with similar issues on the stock plugs. Seems that as soon as they jump over to the ITV22s, their surging and touchy throttle problems go away.

[MattJackson86]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn I can attest to this. Running mid 13's (granted horrible 60') at 1000 ft elevation while flowing more air than my previous 12.6 at 5500 ft elevation. Blowout can seriously seriously hamper the "power" of a car lol. You could actually see the blow out in my logs, with stair stepper rpm curve lol. It was some funny shit.

So whats the cure for blowout? Smaller gap? Do the heat range have any effect?

[scriccs]

When do you think it makes sense to go a step colder? I will be installing my TIG and and test pipe soon. Do you think it makes sense with my setup?

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by MattJackson86 So whats the cure for blowout? Smaller gap? Do the heat range have any effect?

Haven't had a chance to figure it out. Fucked my motor up being a meth head before i got a chance.

I dunno if heat range has an influence on spark. I want to say it shouldn't but who knows. I say run the warmest plug you can as long as your not having detonation issues. I plan on running 1 step colder plugs, and gapped tighter if necessary.

AFRs play a huge role as well. As does nozzle size if you spray water / meth injection. Everything seems to contribute.

Originally Posted by scriccs When do you think it makes sense to go a step colder? I will be installing my TIG and and test pipe soon. Do you think it makes sense with my setup?

I would say after a couple bolt ons, and a tune, it's smart to go 1 step. But i wouldn't go any colder unless you have to.

[BigjohnB20]

I've always wanted to ask if ambient temps affect what range plugs to run. I have mods in sig and am just starting to get into ATR to turn up the boost a little bit. But I live where in the winter my car will sometimes have to sit outside for 9 hours at -10F while I am at work. Then I need it to be able to start and run till it warms up which takes quite a while at those temps. Will the colder plugs not run as well in the cold weather?

[djuosnteisn]

I have no clue lol. I haven't played with different heat ranges that much. But at one heat range colder, i don't think you'd see any appreciable difference from stock.

[RacerX78]

Originally Posted by BigjohnB20 I've always wanted to ask if ambient temps affect what range plugs to run. I have mods in sig and am just starting to get into ATR to turn up the boost a little bit. But I live where in the winter my car will sometimes have to sit outside for 9 hours at -10F while I am at work. Then I need it to be able to start and run till it warms up which takes quite a while at those temps. Will the colder plugs not run as well in the cold weather?

Step colder plugs will be just fine in that weather. They don't affect how long it takes your engine to warm up. They they are just built to handle more heat than stock heat range which happens when you turn up the boost.

From Denso IR Power FAQ Site

Q. Why are there different heat ranges? Which one should I use? A. Part of your spark plug’s responsibilities, in addition to firing a spark, is to remove heat from the combustion chamber. This is accomplished by channeling the heat through the insulator material and metal housing. From there, the heat is transferred to the cylinder head where the engine cooling system can go to work. A spark plug’s heat range is its ability to dissipate heat. The “colder” the plug, the more heat it can channel out of the combustion chamber. In a performance application, colder heat ranges may be necessary to handle the extreme temperatures brought on by higher compression ratios, forced induction, and high RPM’s. While “Colder” plugs may seem to be the way to go, please remember that the spark plug must achieve its “self-cleaning” temperature where it can burn off fuel and carbon deposits. Otherwise, the plug could “foul out” where it is prone to misfiring and poor acceleration. A plug that is too “hot” can overheat, also causing power loss, detonation, pre-ignition, and possible engine damage. A good, general rule of thumb is to start with the factory recommended heat range. For every 75 to 100 hp you add to your engine, you may go to the next colder step. DENSO heat ranges move up as they get colder; 16 would be our hottest Iridium Power plug, 34 would be our coldest (ranges; 16,20,22,24,27,31,34)

[Davy180]

Very helpful info, thanks

[scriccs]

Originally Posted by Davy180 Very helpful info, thanks

Agreed but I still have no clue what I'm going to do. I figure new stocks are better than mine with 30k on them.

[MattJackson86]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Haven't had a chance to figure it out. Fucked my motor up being a meth head before i got a chance. I dunno if heat range has an influence on spark. I want to say it shouldn't but who knows. I say run the warmest plug you can as long as your not having detonation issues. I plan on running 1 step colder plugs, and gapped tighter if necessary. AFRs play a huge role as well. As does nozzle size if you spray water / meth injection. Everything seems to contribute.

Thanks. This thread came at a good time as I have been getting blowout for a couple weeks now. Not all the time, but when I do I too get the "stair stepper" RPM curve

Ill try tightening the plugs. I am running 2 step colder now gapped at .027 and was going to stick with the same, not sure if I should only go 1 step colder though. I have had no issues with 2 step overall though.

[RacerX78]

Originally Posted by scriccs Agreed but I still have no clue what I'm going to do. I figure new stocks are better than mine with 30k on them.

Something basic rule with plugs are go one step colder for every 75-100Hp you add over stock power. If your doing just a TIG with your SRI and TP you'll be fine with new stock heat range plugs.

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by MattJackson86 Thanks. This thread came at a good time as I have been getting blowout for a couple weeks now. Not all the time, but when I do I too get the "stair stepper" RPM curve Ill try tightening the plugs. I am running 2 step colder now gapped at .027 and was going to stick with the same, not sure if I should only go 1 step colder though. I have had no issues with 2 step overall though.

IMO, two steps colder is not necessary at the power levels you can achieve with the K04..

I'm running two steps colder with my gt35 but I run at least 21psi daily, and do not have meth injection. If I hadn't spent $27 each on these HKS plugs I'd probably have switched back to one step colder plugs, because I don't think two steps is even necessary where I'm at currently...and they run like shit until the car is completely warmed up.

[myt_tuf1]

Can step colder plugs with just a SRI, TIP, TMIC, and RP cause any backfiring/afterfiring between a 2-3 shift? I just switched mine to step colder Denso's in anticipation for my AP install (I haven't installed the AP yet) and I seem to be getting a little backfire in-between my 2-3 shift...

(I also did some work with my BPV, I installed a spring rated for 20-25psi instead of the 10-20psi spring that was initially in it...)

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by myt_tuf1 Can step colder plugs with just a SRI, TIP, TMIC, and RP cause any backfiring/afterfiring between a 2-3 shift? I just switched mine to step colder Denso's in anticipation for my AP install (I haven't installed the AP yet) and I seem to be getting a little backfire in-between my 2-3 shift... (I also did some work with my BPV, I installed a spring rated for 20-25psi instead of the 10-20psi spring that was initially in it...)

plugs no

BPV possibly

It's always a good idea to change one part at a time, it makes trouble shooting the issues much easier.

[RacerX78]

I've got a SRI, TMIC and CBE and i get backfire when i shift at WOT every now and then. I don't get it during my DD.

[dooderek]

um, when you detonate after having the improper heat range, youll be convinced. but i doubt you will be pushing your car to that limit anyway. wtf is that runescape link?

[Amazon]

He's basically soliciting. Cut that shit out. And Runescape is gay.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by yuanyelss I'm not completely convinced that the cold plug has done anything. I do not have them, do not let them in the plan, until I see hard proof that they help... Buy RS Gold,Runescape Gold RS Gold,Buy Runescape Gold

I save my groans for the most appropriate occasions. Groan button pushed.

[MattJackson86]

Originally Posted by SSinstaller IMO, two steps colder is not necessary at the power levels you can achieve with the K04.. I'm running two steps colder with my gt35 but I run at least 21psi daily, and do not have meth injection. If I hadn't spent $27 each on these HKS plugs I'd probably have switched back to one step colder plugs, because I don't think two steps is even necessary where I'm at currently...and they run like shit until the car is completely warmed up.

What gap would you suggest? Stick with .027 and just try new 1 step colder plugs, or go smaller to say .025?

[SPEEDRAC3R]

I just installed the plugs right from the box. They come pre gapped, so I didn't mess with them.

[MattJackson86]

See that has caused issues for me (and others) in the past. I know our suggested gap is between .024-.032. I have found I have to run a closed gap or I have issues and out of the box they are not pre-gapped correctly.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by MattJackson86 See that has caused issues for me (and others) in the past. I know our suggested gap is between .024-.032. I have found I have to run a closed gap or I have issues and out of the box they are not pre-gapped correctly.

The recommened gap for itv22's is .024-.027 if you are running a COBB AP.

I know you were questioning exactly what gap to run, and I haven't heard anyone from the low (.024) to high range (.027) say they had an issue.

FWIW, Denso suggests that iridium plugs are much less sensitive to gapping issues due to their efficiency.

[Amazon]

I sense faggotry in this thread

[darth vader]

Heat range and blowout have nothing to do with one another. Blowout is caused by high cylinder pressure and weak spark induced by that, or too large gap settings.

The heat range is merely the survival range of the plug in a situation of INCREASED CYLINDER PRESSURE (read: EXTRA HEAT) and, a measure of the plugs ability to clean itself off of unburned HCs at startup and cooler weather. A colder plug will more effectively transfer that extra heat to the cylinder head and thus the cooling system, rather than retaining it in the plug body, widening gaps, distorting tips, causing pre-ignition or worst case, melting altogether.

A too-cold plug WILL decrease power SLIGHTLY over a proper range for the conditions it's in. It's safer to err on the side of caution but, you really have to READ the plug that's in the motor to determine if going colder is necessary.

I went over the line at near full bolt and only barely so, I think you're safe, unless you're booting around in Venus-level ambient temps. I do get some fouling issues at startup in freezing temps.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by darth vader Heat range and blowout have nothing to do with one another. Blowout is caused by high cylinder pressure and weak spark induced by that, or too large gap settings. The heat range is merely the survival range of the plug in a situation of INCREASED CYLINDER PRESSURE (read: EXTRA HEAT) and, a measure of the plugs ability to clean itself off of unburned HCs at startup and cooler weather. A colder plug will more effectively transfer that extra heat to the cylinder head and thus the cooling system, rather than retaining it in the plug body, widening gaps, distorting tips, causing pre-ignition or worst case, melting altogether. A too-cold plug WILL decrease power SLIGHTLY over a proper range for the conditions it's in. It's safer to err on the side of caution but, you really have to READ the plug that's in the motor to determine if going colder is necessary. I went over the line at near full bolt and only barely so, I think you're safe, unless you're booting around in Venus-level ambient temps. I do get some fouling issues at startup in freezing temps.

Without disputing your technical knowledge, some of the ots gen2 maps were just above the knock threshold that Cobb is comfortable with (OTS anyway), and the 1 step colder plugs cleared the kr issue up.

Cold starting wasn't a problem in these few cases, but very well may be a problem if your current setup is not exhibiting any problems now.

I guess the moral of the story may be... if it ain't broke...

[SPEEDRAC3R]

Originally Posted by Amazon I sense faggotry in this thread

Faggotry asside, what are you using to gap your plugs?

I'm coming from naturally aspirated V8's with carburetors where the plugs were not made with precious metal. All I have is a set of feeler gauges, and from what I know about gapping precious metal plugs, contacting the electrode is a no no. I guess I could have brought the plugs into work and used the vision system to measure them, but that seems a little excessive.

Right from the Denso website:

Q. Do I need to set the gap?
A. Generally, no. The DENSO Iridium Power plug comes pre-set with a protective sleeve over the firing end, to protect the gap from accidental alteration. DENSO Iridium Power’s ultra-efficient firing power compensates for normally recommended gap settings that are smaller than the pre-set value. In the cases of vehicle modifications (nitrous, turbo-chargers, super-chargers, high power ignition systems, etc.), some adjustments may be desired. Or, if you prefer to remain consistent with factory specifications, you may adjust. However, please be careful not to place any stress on the fine center electrode during adjustment. You could accidentally break off the very hard, and therefore brittle, tip.

Q. How do I gap Iridium plugs
A. Before attempting to gap any DENSO Iridium Power spark plug, please review the specification chart to see the factory-preset gap. In most cases your Iridium Power plugs do not need to be gapped. Even with small variations in the factory set gap the ultra-efficient firing power design will compensate for those small variations. Should you decide to re-gap your Iridium Power plug, use extreme caution as improper gapping may damage or destroy the Iridium center electrode or porcelain center. To increase the gap size: Step 1 Use needle nose pliers or spark plug gapping tool to bend the ground strap up to the desired height. DO NOT LET THE PLIERS OR GAPPING TOOL TOUCH THE IRIDIUM CENTER ELECTRODE OR PORCELAIN. Step 2 Re-check the gap with a calibrated gapping tool. To decrease the gap size: Step 1 Use the same method as above, however bend the ground strap down to the desired height. DO NOT LET THE PLIERS OR GAPPING TOOL TOUCH THE IRIDIUM CENTER ELECTRODE OR PORCELAIN. Step 2 Re-check the gap with a calibrated gapping tool. WARNING: Failure to follow these directions may permanently damage the spark plug. Note: Never use a round gapping tool to check the gap or to increase or decrease the gap setting.

http://www.globaldenso.com/en/produc...ium/qa_22.html

[rfinkle2]

SpeedRac3R... You'll need a "feeler" gauge available @ any local auto parts store.

When you get it, keep in mind that you may have to use 2 "feelers" @ once to equal the gap u want.

eg... although may not be the actual feeler numbers .025+.002=.027

Just be weary of touching the actual irridium, and use a good pair of needle nose pliers to open the gap, and tap the plug on top to close it. There are a few vidoes... on sites other than denso. Try ngk's site....